What does "baptism in Jesus' Name" really mean?

[Jim B]

What does it really mean to baptize in Jesus’ Name?

I know the UPC thread was closed and I hope I am not overstepping the bounds here, but I would like to offer my view on what “baptism in Jesus’ name” means. BTW, this is not a strictly Oneness issue, since some Trinitarian groups also employ the “in Jesus’ name” formula when baptizing.

If the following has already been beaten to shreds, please forgive me. I have been away from CF for a while.

Anyhow …

It seems to me that a lot of discussion about “baptism in Jesus name” is centered around what the preacher says when he dunks a believer in water.

Is what a preacher utters when baptizing a person really what baptism “in Jesus’ name” means? Can a voiceless mute baptize someone in water? If not, why not? And who says? Can you baptize yourself? Why not?

If the preacher/baptizer holds that the validity of a baptism is determined by what he says when dunking someone, doesn’t that mean that he presumes to hold the person’s salvation in his hands? Doesn’t the baptizer then become the mediator of a person’s salvation and not Christ, the only “one mediator?” If he refuses to baptize a person, can that person still be saved sola fidelis?

I once knew a preacher who refused to baptize a person “in Jesus name” (his preferred formula) for personal reasons and because he judged the candidate's faith to be insincere? It created quite a stir. The candidate’s family had to rush around to find a preacher who would baptize their loved one before he accidentally died and went to hell. It took a while, since most preachers in their neck of the woods didn’t say the right “formula” when they baptized.

I personally believe that when we receive Jesus by faith, we are 'baptized into the Body of Christ’ (1 Cor. 12.13) and that is what it means to be “baptized in[to] Jesus name” irrespective of any other person. Water baptism is important, certainly, but still incidental. I believe a person can still be saved even in the Sahara Desert where there is no water to baptize them and where there is no preacher to say the “correct” words (formula). To me, God is not as concerned about what comes out of a preacher’s/baptizer’s mouth as He is about the condition of the candidate’s heart.

Furthermore, the insistence that the right “formula” (words) be used by the baptizer when baptizing is more of a baptism in a doctrine than in Jesus name.

What do you think?

Jim
\o/

 

[Andyman_1970]

Can you baptize yourself? Why not?

In the Jewish tradition (which Jesus came from) a cerimonial bath (Mikvah) that was used in OT times to cerimonially "wash" a Jew that desired repentance was done by that person. They dunked themselves 3 times.

So can a person baptize themselves? The cultural and historic evidence would indicate that Jesus baptised Himself with John the Baptist as a witness (which was customary to have a witness).

 

[Saulball]

I don't think God is going to send anyone to Hell for any baptismal formula.

I understand where they get it. The Baptisms were said to be done in Jesus name in the Book of Acts.

However...Jesus said Baptising them in the name of the Father Son and HOLY Spirit. We see through ALL The epistles (especially in the Introductions) the Trinity, or mention of God the Father, his son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit..all being God in ONE triune being.

BUT, what is said in the language of the day was "Be baptised under the authority of Jesus Christ" That is true, and Jesus gave the formula. (Father, Son, HS) If he didn't what was he saying...he point blank said to pray to the Father in HIS (Jesus) name, and that Devils were subject to HIS name (JESUS)...and yes at the NAME of Jesus every knee shall bow...he IS the image of the unseen God...but for Baptism Jesus gave explicit instructions...if he wanted it in JESUS name...he would have said Baptize the Nations in MY Name...he did other things!!!

Therefore we can conclude that Jesus told no lie, meant nothing different, but gave the Baptismal formula for us (Father, Son, HOLY Spirit)

My main problem with Sabelism, or Modalism, or Oneness is that its not Biblical...unless they knew more than ALL the Apostles and Jesus...ALL the epistles basically have comments about God The Father, God the Son, and God the HOly Spirit...even Jesus (the glorified Jesus) at the end of Revelation indicates something about HIS FATHER.

Now if HE were the Father, why would he say that? To confuse us.

IMO, they take a valid argument...JESUS IS GOD..(to which we all agree) in him the fullness of the Godhead dwelled bodily! True..empowered by the Holy Spirit...listening to the Father and doing ONLY what he says. But they run with that in doctrinal error about the Person of Christ...he has attributes that make him the Son, and not the Father, and vice versa....so to deny the Father (to which the Apostles didn't in their scriptures!) is a serious doctrinal error.

 

[accurate]

Any action done as a result of reading the bible, the action is done in the name of God. If someone reads the instruction on prayer from the gospel of Matthew and then responds by praying, they are praying in Jesus name.

 

[adamdavid]

If you look back at the original languages, you find that it doesnt make that much of a difference... I dont remember the greek word, because I haven't learned greek yet, but the hebrew word for 'name' is "Shem", and they both have generally the same meaning, so we'll just go without the greek for now... anywho... When you look at the original languages, the words for name dont mean the same as name does in our modern cultures... they really encompass the personality and characteristics of the person being spoken of... the name is really more of a descriptive than a title... now, when you call me Adam, it just means Adam... you dont think about it as revealing my character or personality, but thats what names were... and because Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one, they all really have the same personality and such... Jesus even said that "If you have seen me, You have seen the father..." they are the same... different persons, but of the same essence... It also has to do with the persons authority... to baptize in Jesus' name is to baptize by his authority... because He wants it to happen... Jesus, the Father, and The Holy Spirit are all God, and therefore all have the authority of God... to baptize someone in Jesus name is really no different than baptizing someone in the name of all three of them... just different words... and yet, we've let that little bit of nothingness divide the church... Just one more thing the enemy uses to tear the body of christ apart... how sad...

Blessings...
AdamDavid

 

[Rose of Sharon]

http://www.geocities.com/robert_upci/jesus_name_baptism_through_the_centuries_weisser.htm


Good web site on Baptism in Jesus name.

 

[lorilou]

we all agree that Jesus was that singular "name" mentioned in Matt. 28:19 when He said to baptize "in the NAME" to His disciples. and when we jump over to acts we find them baptizing how? in Jesus name. this is no suprise...this is what they were instructed to do! disobedience? not hardly...they remember His instructions to baptize into a singular "name" and they did it. plain and simple. PLEASE show me where someone was physically baptized in the bible with the words "in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" spoken over them? yes, essentially it is the same thing but the fact of the matter is, they only baptized in "the name of Jesus".

noone ever wants to study it past the nicene creed. i've read things from various encyclopedias (non UPC) that state that almost all baptisms were performed in Jesus name exclusively UNTIL the development of the trinity, where it was CHANGED to the three titles. this is very interesting to me. i think i'll stick with what the apostles taught...

i've said this before, and i'll say it again. if i write you a check, and sign it "wife or daughter" it wouldn't be valid. why not? i AM a wife and a daughter. because there's no power, no authority in these two titles. the authority comes when i sign "jane smith". we're all taught to pray, cast out devils, etc. in His name. why? because of the power in it, so why do people want to criticize us for speaking the name of Jesus in baptism?

God Bless!
lori

 

[accurate]

PLEASE show me where someone was physically baptized in the bible with the words "in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" spoken over them?

There is none. Works done in the name of Jesus have nothing to do with words "spoken over them". Take this advice, it is very much like a hypocrite who would apply a spoken formula to one item, such as submersion, and not apply it to every other work. I trust that you, unlike the hypocrite, use a spoken formula for every work you do.

If "in the name of" means "words . . . spoken over them", then unless people quote a formula everytime work is done, it has then become invalidated in the face of God. Jesus' instruction on prayer, his example did not use the spoken formula, "in the name of". Be assured, his disciples prayed in the name of Jesus.

 

[JesusServant]

It's really simple, just like the Gospel.

It is proper to baptize in Jesus' name, but our God is not a God looking for a loophole or verbal mistake to send someone to Hell. Jesus isn't even his original name, it's just His name in our language. If God were knitpicky and just looking for an excuse to send someone to hell then He could get us on using the wrong name in the wrong language, but God is not the lawyer looking to condemn, satan is.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Name

Name comes from the Greek Word onoma which means in the authority of. So Jesus was telling them to go in His authority and baptize people in His authority. THe same authority given to Him by the Father, the same Authroity that he and the Spirit operated in, the Same Authority. It wasn't this little magical little phrase, it has power behind it. We are to go and baptize others in the Authority of Jesus. Anyways, baptism is not crucial to slavation, baptism is an outward sign of an inward cahnge. Does Jesus want Believers to be baptized in water? Yes, but He won't send you to hell if you are not baptized. Baptism is a person shwoing the world that He is aligning himself with Christ and that he belongs to Him. He is identifying with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[lorilou]

would He send someone to hell for not repenting? what about not believing? of course He would. these things are commanded. but so is baptism. the bible is full of commandments about baptism. there must be a new birth of water AND Spirit (john 3:5) and baptism is for "the remission (removal or remitting) of sins..." (acts 2:38) not for church membership, etc. in repentance we ask for forgiveness of our sins and make a commitment to follow Christ, and in baptism our sins are remitted and "buried". the two go hand in hand.

 

[adamdavid]

would He send someone to hell for not repenting? what about not believing? of course He would. these things are commanded. but so is baptism. the bible is full of commandments about baptism. there must be a new birth of water AND Spirit (john 3:5) and baptism is for "the remission (removal or remitting) of sins..." (acts 2:38) not for church membership, etc. in repentance we ask for forgiveness of our sins and make a commitment to follow Christ, and in baptism our sins are remitted and "buried". the two go hand in hand.

Excuse me!!! I have yet to be baptized, but there is no way you can tell me I am going to burn in hell... saying that someone will burn in hell because of a lack of water baptism is not only wrong and a horribly insulting thing to do, but it detracts from the power of Jesus' blood to save us on its own... HE DIED SO THAT I COULD LIVE!!! I dont gain that life through an action, because no action can gain salvation... our righteousness is as dirty rags... nothing we can do can save us... it is just HIS BLOOD... saying that "just because we dont do a physical act, our salvation is taken from us" is wrong and, in my opinion, is offensive to God... not to mention me...

Blessings...
AdamDavid

P.S. ~ I do believe in baptism... and I will be baptized... I just haven't yet... God showed me prophetically where I would be baptized, and by whom, and when, and that time and place just hasn't arrived yet...

 

[Song]

It's really simple, just like the Gospel.

If God were knitpicky and just looking for an excuse to send someone to hell then He could get us on using the wrong name in the wrong language, but God is not the lawyer looking to condemn, satan is.

Oh of course.. and it doesn't mater what you believe as long as you believe in God (what ever you call him or how many every you believe in)... it doesn't matter you will still go to heaven... If you believe this lie then i have a bridge to sell you... God came to this earth and died for the sins of the people on this earth for a reason if this statement was true "it doesn't mater what you believe as long as you believe in God (what ever you call him or how many every you believe in)... it doesn't matter you will still go to heaven..." then he died for nothing. someone mention earlier about being a hypocrite and only believe on part (speaking of baptism) well this statement leave out a hole lot of the bible



what about Gods commandment to be Holy (separate form the world)

read Ex 22:31, Lev 11:44,45, lev 19:2, 24, Lev 20:26, Lev 21:6,8; Num 15:40

shall i Go on this is only the first 4 books of the bible. God does care what you believe.. Look at the old testament and what the Jews/Israelites went thorough when they disobeyed God....

Yes i know we are in the dispensation of grace.. but how long will this last..?? and even in grace God gave us the plan of salvation... all you need to do is read your bible to find it... there are commandments we still need to follow even though we are in the dispensation of grace... it's not once saved always saved... God only forgives when you ask for it... Paul said "i die daily" meaning he dies out to sin daily.. he repents daily... repentance is the first step to salvation .. God can't live in a temple that is dirty



after ready much from this forum i have a thought to leave

I feel religion should be more of an experience with God than a social event. I don't believe that "it doesn't matter what you believe as long as your a good person you will go to heaven" this is a lie straight from the pits... and most Americans believe this lie

I feel that the US will never understand the Middle East because we don't understand what it means to stand up for religious believes... we have lost our "first Love" what this nation was first founded on... I believe you can compare the US to the church of Laodicea in the book of Revelations



I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ (the Gospel being the death, burial and resurrection -- repentance, baptism and the gift of the holy ghost)

 

[Jim B]

The Bible says in there is “One Baptism” (Eph. 4.5) but Hebrews 6.2 tells us there is an accepted, foundational “doctrine (instruction) of baptisms (plural).” How do you reconcile this? How can there be only “one” baptism (singular) but a doctrine of “baptisms” (plural). The Church of Christ and UPC agree that the saving baptism, in their individual theologies, is water baptism although they disagree on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Church of Christ believes, unless I am mistaken, that the baptism of the Spirit and water baptism are the same, or, at least, you are baptized in the Spirit when you are baptized in water – witness the descent of the dove on Christ at the time he was baptized in water.

Others (including myself) believe that, while water baptism is important (I would say, crucial), it is not the “One Baptism” of Ephesians. That baptism, the baptism that saves, is the one mentioned in 1 Cor. 12.13, “For we were all baptized by ONE Spirit into ONE body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” When we become a child of God by faith, the Spirit baptizes (places) us in the Body of Christ – in other words, we become Christians.

So water baptism is not the saving baptism and one who has never been baptized in water, can be a Christian and possess eternal life.

I think we need to think about what baptism is in question when we read a verse that contains the word. Sometimes we jump to the conclusion that it is water baptism, but it may not always be so.

Anyhow, that’s what I believe.

 

[accurate]

there must be a new birth of water AND Spirit (john 3:5) . . . and in baptism our sins are remitted and "buried".

1. "new birth of water AND Spirit", Yes, born of water -- but not normal water, "water AND Spirit". Another words, spiritual water. Jesus spoke about this new, living water in the very next chapter. Remember now, the woman at the well? Have fun.

 

[Song]

1. "new birth of water AND Spirit", Yes, born of water -- but not normal water, "water AND Spirit". Another words, spiritual water. Jesus spoke about this new, living water in the very next chapter. Remember now, the woman at the well? Have fun.

can you back this up with scripture?? according to my bible the water in John 3:5 is H2O

the Greek word water in this verse is Hudor or hudatos meaning water (H2O)

so if your going to us your own interpretation for the Word of God please give us a "warning" sign... "accurate using his own interpretation" or something like this. Stick to the Word please

 

[accurate]

can you back this up with scripture?? according to my bible the water in John 3:5 is H2O

the Greek word water in this verse is Hudor or hudatos meaning water (H2O)

so if your going to us your own interpretation for the Word of God please give us a "warning" sign... "accurate using his own interpretation" or something like this. Stick to the Word please

Just tell me how you arrived to the conclusion that Jesus was speaking about baptism in John 3:5. I don't read anything about baptism in that verse. I hope you don't think that Jesus was talking about baptism to the woman at the well using that H2O argument of yours.

 

[jenptcfan]

Maybe someone has covered this already...I'm not sure, but how can people get so riled up about making sure they're not baptized in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit, when the Great Commission tells us to go forth and baptize people in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit.

I understand that there are other places in the bible where the term "baptize them in the name of Jesus" is used too, so I'm not knocking that either.

But the other is scriptual too, so why do we bicker about it?

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Water also represents the Word of God. (Water also represents the Holy SPirit as rain and etc. Already mentioned above.) We are born of the Word which is incorruptible seed.

(KJV) Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now the water in the last verse isn't talking about H20, is it? No, this water represents the Word.

John3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Now, see this isn't natural water, is it? It's the Word. We are born of the Word (also look at John 1:1 where Jesus is the Word) and of the Spirit.

ECC

 

[JesusServant]

Oh of course.. and it doesn't mater what you believe as long as you believe in God (what ever you call him or how many every you believe in)... it doesn't matter you will still go to heaven...

I never said that Song. But the God I love and serve is smarter than you and I and would never put my salvation in the hands of a baptizer and that his verbage is perfect.

If you believe this lie then i have a bridge to sell you...

I believe Jesus' lie then. Ignorance IS a defence.

God came to this earth and died for the sins

I don't know this dying God you serve. But I serve the eternal God that cannot die.

of the people on this earth for a reason if this statement was true "it doesn't mater what you believe as long as you believe in God (what ever you call him or how many every you believe in)

I agree with this and never said anything to the contrary

... it doesn't matter you will still go to heaven..."

Between the two of us Song I am the only one that would NEVER sit on the judgment seat of the Father. Jesus would not even dare to do that. I would never tell someone who isn't or is going to Heaven or Hell. However, I would never serve a God that would send human souls to an eternal damnation based on ignorance or a bad choice of words BASED on a bad interpretation of Scripture. (Father, Son, Holy Spirit baptism)