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What do you think the "mark" will be, and will it be obvious?

Elder 111

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the reason i mention the elder is because i believe the law will be used in the last days to
judge and condemn what the law holds as sin.....that when the false messiah comes he will place all under his law....everything that is contrary to the law will be dealt with during this false millenium....even now some already judge that sunday worship is wrong...that the holidays i mention are pagan holidays....thus have already judge in thier hearts...man has no right to judge man...alll that do will face judgement themselves....in that they reap what they sow....in the last days ....these things will be seen for what they are...unrighteous acts
You seem not to be addressing the point. God is not interested in those things. Those laws are not God laws. There are not sinful. God is interested in the violation His laws not man's law customs and institutions.
Fact is that what you have mentioned not of the bible and if others say that they are pagan so what?
 
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Stan Tei

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if you are a christian and believe that jesus freed you from the law...what difference does it make what day one worships him?

you believe the mark is sunday worship?.....

The Scriptures teach that God never changes. The death of the Messiah on the cross did not free us from the Law of God. It only freed us from the penalty for our breaking of that Law. The Scriptures also teach that not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law until ALL is fulfilled. If God could have changed the Law, then His Son would not have needed to die.

Right now, there is no mark of the beast. When the union between spiritualism, and the beast (the papacy), and Protestantism unite and enjoin the civil powers to enforce the keeping of Sunday, THEN we have the mark of the beast.

If anyone has followed the path of the papacy, in their effort to solicit the civil powers around the world to pass laws enforcing Sunday observance, they will know that this agenda is alive and well, nd continually moving forward.

It will not be under the pontificate of Benedict XVI that this will be accomplished, but it will be done under the next pontificate.
 
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Stan Tei

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I will not deal with that at all. Your reply answers the question. There are not scriptural nor do they point to sin. That makes it clear that God would not be concern about them and therefore not what He referred to in Daniel. So why mention them? The Sabbath is part of God law that has been changed and not by Him. There is no other time or law that can be referred to,

I somewhat agree.... but there's more:

"Dear Friend, I have offered and still offer $1000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound, under grievous sin to keep Sunday holy.
It was the Catholic Church which made the law obliging us to keep Sunday holy. The church made this law long after the Bible was written. Hence said law is not in the Bible.
Christ, our Lord empowered his church to make laws binding in conscience. He said to his apostles and their lawful sucessors in the priesthood "Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be binding in heaven." Mth. 16:19. Mth. 18:17. Luke 16:19. The Cath. Church abolished not only the Sabbath, but all the other Jewish festivals.
Pray and study. I shall be always glad to help you as long as you honestly seek the truth.
Respectfully,
T. Enright CssR

God's Holy Feast days have all been replaced by "Beast days". Easter, (search out Quartodeciman Controversy) Christ Mass, (obviously Catholic) All Saint's day - (AKA Halloween),

PS God did not allow the church to change ANY of His Laws.
 
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dfw69

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You seem not to be addressing the point. God is not interested in those things. Those laws are not God laws. There are not sinful. God is interested in the violation His laws not man's law customs and institutions.
Fact is that what you have mentioned not of the bible and if others say that they are pagan so what?[/QUOT

i am only making aware my belief and oppinion how i see scriptured unfolding and coming to pass...only time will tell....

i do not see or believe the mark is sunday worship...why would god want sabbath to be the day of rest...whats the big deal?....its just a day....all days should be holy...in that at all times one should please god .....to do his will
....and for me....his will is to obey the gospel at all times....it does not matter what day is the day of rest....or the day one worships god....imo
 
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dfw69

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The Scriptures teach that God never changes. The death of the Messiah on the cross did not free us from the Law of God. It only freed us from the penalty for our breaking of that Law. The Scriptures also teach that not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law until ALL is fulfilled. If God could have changed the Law, then His Son would not have needed to die.

Right now, there is no mark of the beast. When the union between spiritualism, and the beast (the papacy), and Protestantism unite and enjoin the civil powers to enforce the keeping of Sunday, THEN we have the mark of the beast.

If anyone has followed the path of the papacy, in their effort to solicit the civil powers around the world to pass laws enforcing Sunday observance, they will know that this agenda is alive and well, nd continually moving forward.

It will not be under the pontificate of Benedict XVI that this will be accomplished, but it will be done under the next pontificate.

hi stan....i see what your saying...many believe as you do even in the churches.....but my understanding of scripture says that jesus fulfilled the law for man.....then died under the law...the law condemn him...but he was sinless....by doing so....tbe law was paid for...redeeming man from the law....his life given for the law paid our breaking the law....setting us free from the law....the law holds no power on them who belive....jesus fulfilled the law for us....now we belong to him....not the law.....the law is dead.....its been fulfilled....our righteousnesss comes by faith in jesus work.........what we do and how we live is by the new laws of a new covenant......the laws we follow and obey are in the new covenant......to go back to the law is to deny jesus work....why serve the law when jesus fulfilled it for them who believe?.....i believe when one continues in the law he falls from grace....for jesus gave us his life of obedience to the law.....and took our disobedience to the law and paid the penalty of the law on the cross.....he died for us...to live after the law again....and sin against the law again.....what sacrifice do you have for breaking the law again?....none...jesus died once....no one can save you from the power of the law if you continue in the law and sin against the law....you will bear your judgement alone....to be truly in the faith and in the new covenant.....you must believe the law is fulfilled by jesus for you and cast off the law.....and put on the law of the new covenant.....namely love one another....in doing so......its as if you have fulfillled the whole law.....for love is the fulfillment of the law of god......but be warned...if a man lives by the law then as it is writyen....you reap what you sow....you will be judge by the law.....christ sacrifice will not save you....for to not have cast off the law in the fisrt place....will be as if you counted the blood of jesus unworthy for your sacrifice.....the law saves no one only condemns and finds guilty before god.....the law is written in the heart when man learns to accept the new covenant and live by faith...and love one another as god loves the world......stan if you continuee in the law...the very law you love and trust will jugde you in the day of judgement......if you are perfect and guiltless against the law.....well....but if you are found to have broken the law....you will pay the penalty of the law broken....its the chance you take....as for me and my house....we will serve the lord jesus....for in him do the gentiles trust.....peace
 
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ViaCrucis

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As I am not a Jew, I am no more compelled to observe the Sabbath than I am compelled to refrain from pork or shellfish, or of the wearing of mixed fabrics.

The Sabbath was given for the Jews alone.

I am not a Jew. Likewise, the Apostle is clear that this is not a matter of judgment. Additionally, since Christians have always gathered on the first day of the week, right from the beginning, I see no reason to condemn what Christ's own Apostles laid down in practice.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Elder 111

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You seem not to be addressing the point. God is not interested in those things. Those laws are not God laws. There are not sinful. God is interested in the violation His laws not man's law customs and institutions.
Fact is that what you have mentioned not of the bible and if others say that they are pagan so what?[/QUOT

i am only making aware my belief and oppinion how i see scriptured unfolding and coming to pass...only time will tell....

i do not see or believe the mark is sunday worship...why would god want sabbath to be the day of rest...whats the big deal?....its just a day....all days should be holy...in that at all times one should please god .....to do his will
....and for me....his will is to obey the gospel at all times....it does not matter what day is the day of rest....or the day one worships god....imo
If does not matter to you. But you shout ask if it matters to God. The Forth commandment. If it does not matter to God why did he put it there? Do you believe that stealing does not matter? Or taking the name of God in vain? Is your opinion greater than what God requires?
 
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Elder 111

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As I am not a Jew, I am no more compelled to observe the Sabbath than I am compelled to refrain from pork or shellfish, or of the wearing of mixed fabrics.

The Sabbath was given for the Jews alone.

I am not a Jew. Likewise, the Apostle is clear that this is not a matter of judgment. Additionally, since Christians have always gathered on the first day of the week, right from the beginning, I see no reason to condemn what Christ's own Apostles laid down in practice.

-CryptoLutheran
Was Noah a Jew? Yet God told him that some animals were clean and told him to take them by 7's instead of 2's. Please explain.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Was Noah a Jew? Yet God told him that some animals were clean and told him to take them by 7's instead of 2's. Please explain.

Probably an anachronism on the part of the author(s) of the text.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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dfw69

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If does not matter to you. But you shout ask if it matters to God. The Forth commandment. If it does not matter to God why did he put it there? Do you believe that stealing does not matter? Or taking the name of God in vain? Is your opinion greater than what God requires?

The 10 commandments and the fouth commandment?.....the sabbath along with every day is holy...you should do good every day...i believe that the old forshaddows new things....because of israel we know these things...i keep the sabbath in another way....a way that pleases god...the same way jesus lived and worked on the sabbath days....to do good...jesus healed....help...open blind eyes ....told a man to take his bed and go....on the sabbath...he worked good works on the sabbath...and is blameless....so do we....

is stealing or taking the name of god in vain okay to do.?....of course not...christians obey the 10 commandments from the heart....a different way...a new way....not like the old way when one steals from you...then he is judge...but forgiven....jesus said if someone takes your coat offer cloak as well...not judge him...in the same manner you judge you will be judge....we are the children of god...for god forgives and shows mercy...we should be as our father and do the same works as it is in heaven....who is just to the righteous and sinners.....but only god judges between man....who will judge the world in due time and recompence all wrong done in the flesh according to truth....but in christianity power is given.....if we forgive all other mans sins....our sins will be forgiven....if we ask god to forgive a man that has sinned against us...god will honor our prayer and he will be freeof the sin he has committed against us.....for what we bind on earth shall be bound in heaven...what we loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven....then are we the children of god....when we love as he loved us
 
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ViaCrucis

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The author of the text is the Holy Spirit. Try again.

Alright then. The human being(s) who wrote the text, which was nevertheless inspired by the Holy Spirit, were using an anachronism and placing it into the text.

Unless your argument is that God was in heaven with pen and parchment and then He just dropped the Bible down on earth all leather-bound then you have to acknowledge that human beings wrote the text.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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considering the whole book was given by Jesus Himself to the apostle John it really doesn't matter why it should make any sense for John writing on Patmos the context of the whole book is its a Revelation given to John by Jesus concerning the endtimes and the day of judgement, how anyone would conclude this is not a future event considering the day of Judgement and Jesus Christ returning has not occured yet is beyond me:doh:

It is pure supposition that "the whole book is its a revelation given to John by Jesus concerning the endtimes". That's not what the text says.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Stan Tei

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hi stan....i see what your saying...many believe as you do even in the churches.....but my understanding of scripture says that jesus fulfilled the law for man.....then died under the law...the law condemn him...but he was sinless....by doing so....tbe law was paid for...redeeming man from the law....his life given for the law paid our breaking the law....setting us free from the law....the law holds no power on them who belive....jesus fulfilled the law for us....now we belong to him....not the law.....the law is dead.....its been fulfilled....our righteousnesss comes by faith in jesus work.........what we do and how we live is by the new laws of a new covenant......the laws we follow and obey are in the new covenant......to go back to the law is to deny jesus work....why serve the law when jesus fulfilled it for them who believe?.....i believe when one continues in the law he falls from grace....for jesus gave us his life of obedience to the law.....and took our disobedience to the law and paid the penalty of the law on the cross.....he died for us...to live after the law again....and sin against the law again.....what sacrifice do you have for breaking the law again?....none...jesus died once....no one can save you from the power of the law if you continue in the law and sin against the law....you will bear your judgement alone....to be truly in the faith and in the new covenant.....you must believe the law is fulfilled by jesus for you and cast off the law.....and put on the law of the new covenant.....namely love one another....in doing so......its as if you have fulfillled the whole law.....for love is the fulfillment of the law of god......but be warned...if a man lives by the law then as it is writyen....you reap what you sow....you will be judge by the law.....christ sacrifice will not save you....for to not have cast off the law in the fisrt place....will be as if you counted the blood of jesus unworthy for your sacrifice.....the law saves no one only condemns and finds guilty before god.....the law is written in the heart when man learns to accept the new covenant and live by faith...and love one another as god loves the world......stan if you continuee in the law...the very law you love and trust will jugde you in the day of judgement......if you are perfect and guiltless against the law.....well....but if you are found to have broken the law....you will pay the penalty of the law broken....its the chance you take....as for me and my house....we will serve the lord jesus....for in him do the gentiles trust.....peace



Malachi 4:4. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the
great and dreadful day of the LORD:

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
38. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

16. And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
7. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The Law of God stands. It cannot pass away. Not in this life, nor in the world to come.
 
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Manasseh_

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the mark that goes in bewtween your eyes or on your right hand,
is based on either keepin or breaking the first commandment, not the Sabbath.
see Ex13, Deut6/11

zeke , first I must say judging by your pic the last few years, you haven't aged a bit...............so what they putting in the water up there in can-A-da .........eh?

as to the mark................
in the forehead............representing the seat of thought
in the right hand..........representing the actions of a man

it's not going to be some kind of chip or tattoo visible on either the forehead or hand

it is by our thoughts then actions that we sin............
keep the sabbath.........lose your job (if the "state" makes a law that you must work on sabbath)
break the sabbath, your thoughts to do anything to stay alive and your actions to go ahead and work on the sabbath............so that you can continue to buy and sell...................

 
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ViaCrucis

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The Law of God stands. It cannot pass away. Not in this life, nor in the world to come.

I take that to mean that you keep your closet clean of cotton-polyester blends (Leviticus 19:19) and that you have a mezuzah on each of your doorposts (Deuteronomy 6:9)?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Gnarwhal

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ViaCrucis said:
I take that to mean that you keep your closet clean of cotton-polyester blends (Leviticus 19:19) and that you have a mezuzah on each of your doorposts (Deuteronomy 6:9)?

-CryptoLutheran

Lol, this ought to be good.
 
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Elder 111

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The 10 commandments and the fouth commandment?.....the sabbath along with every day is holy...you should do good every day...i believe that the old forshaddows new things....because of israel we know these things...i keep the sabbath in another way....a way that pleases god...the same way jesus lived and worked on the sabbath days....to do good...jesus healed....help...open blind eyes ....told a man to take his bed and go....on the sabbath...he worked good works on the sabbath...and is blameless....so do we....

is stealing or taking the name of god in vain okay to do.?....of course not...christians obey the 10 commandments from the heart....a different way...a new way....not like the old way when one steals from you...then he is judge...but forgiven....jesus said if someone takes your coat offer cloak as well...not judge him...in the same manner you judge you will be judge....we are the children of god...for god forgives and shows mercy...we should be as our father and do the same works as it is in heaven....who is just to the righteous and sinners.....but only god judges between man....who will judge the world in due time and recompence all wrong done in the flesh according to truth....but in christianity power is given.....if we forgive all other mans sins....our sins will be forgiven....if we ask god to forgive a man that has sinned against us...god will honor our prayer and he will be freeof the sin he has committed against us.....for what we bind on earth shall be bound in heaven...what we loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven....then are we the children of god....when we love as he loved us
Forgive my bluntness and impolite attitude. But you talking foolishness. God law is kept in action. That which is seen proceeds from the heart. Love God with all your heart means doing the things God requires. God made it absolutely clear, made it a point of writing it with His own hand. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Jesus said I am Lord of the Sabbath.
 
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dana b

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zeke , first I must say judging by your pic the last few years, you haven't aged a bit...............so what they putting in the water up there in can-A-da .........eh?

as to the mark................
in the forehead............representing the seat of thought
in the right hand..........representing the actions of a man

it's not going to be some kind of chip or tattoo visible on either the forehead or hand

it is by our thoughts then actions that we sin............
keep the sabbath.........lose your job (if the "state" makes a law that you must work on sabbath)
break the sabbath, your thoughts to do anything to stay alive and your actions to go ahead and work on the sabbath............so that you can continue to buy and sell...................


You are correct in the above. I agree with this interpretation. But God's words of the Bible are Holy and fantastic. It could be true that there will also be a chip implanted or a mark stamped on literally or some other such physical thing.

The Bible is true in every way. It expresses a truth beyond this worldly sphere. It is God's word and we can find nothing false in it. Only God's word can be true in every way. His is beyond interpretations. His is brilliant light.
 
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