What do you think the "mark" will be, and will it be obvious?

[Elder 111]

i believe the mark has something to do with gods law also....it is a literal make that symbolizes obedience to torah ....613 laws plus 3 new commandments ..i believe the mark of the beast is 616 commandments.....the number of his name....or authority.....rev 12 is israel....not spiritual israel....imo

the 3 new commandments has to do with the abomination of desolation
1 worship image
2 recieve the mark 616 commandment
3 no one bye or sell...without mark

There is Sabbath and there is Sunday worship. Are both these days accepted by God? Did God institute both? Here is where the change in the law is. God asked for one of these days not either nor both. The law will be passed worldwide to keep Sunday only or suffer and when that does not work the death.

 

[Gnarwhal]

yep...one day they will recieve him

That's not the point. The historic orthodox Christian view is that the church is the continuation of the Israel we read about in the old testament. The country that was established by the UN in 1948 is a far cry from that and has zero eschatological significance, contrary to what dispensationalist prophecy buffs like Hal Lindsey and John Hagee would have you believe.

 

[dfw69]

Dana b....it is my understanding....that the house of israel includes judah....for 12 tribes are of the house of israel....jesus wantedhis disciples to witness to all israel.....in the days of christ....all tribes live in judeah....thus judeans or jews....i believe all israel as a whole rejected the messiah...not just judah....

i also believe god will fulfill the promises made to israel seed...and they will have thier land promised to them.....when the messiah gathers them as promised to israel....

 

[Blackwater Babe]

It's barcodes. Everyone knows THAT!

Notice the three "guard bars" (colored RED) at the beginning, middle and end. Now, notice the same bar pattern ("bar-space-bar" or "101") for the number 6 (colored BLUE).

Mary Stewart Relfe's book, "The New Money System 666", published in 1982, is the "pioneer" of the "666 in the UPC barcode" teaching. Relfe's book contains over 50 pages of excellant doumentation on the UPC barcodes. Relfe's discovery is repeated in many publications touching the mark of the beast, within the last fifteen years. Including tracts published by this author.
Here's a few samples:

Terry Cook, The Mark of the New World Order, 1996:
". . . the entire system [UPC barcode] is very deceptively designed around the infamous numerical configuration, Biblically known as 666, the mark of the Antichrist or devil (Revelation 13:16-18). . ." (Terry Cook, The Mark of the New World Order, 1996, p. 376)
Bob Fraley, The Last Days in America, 1984:
"The interpretation of the Universal Product Code marks is most revealing in that the three numbers '666' are the key working numbers for every designed Universal Product Code. Every group of Universal Product Code marks has in it three unidentified numbers. All three of these numbers are 6, making the use of the numbers '666' the key to using this identifying marking system. . .
There is no deviation. Every Universal Product Code has three unidentified marks whose number equivalent '6' encoding it with the code number '666'. " (Bob Fraley, The Last Days in America, 1984, p. 225, 228)

 

[dfw69]

Ezek.....i dont believe the jews have lost thier heritage completly....though they have been scattered in history..

i believe israel and jews are synonymous.....all israel lived in judea in the days of christ.....but only judah had their homeland......all 12 tribes are of the house of israel including judah.....since all tribes lived in judea....thus all the house of israel were considered judeans....ie jews.....

as for the synogogue of satan....which says' they say they are jews but are liars'....all it means is that these natural jews practice things that are not godly....like someone claiming to be a christian all he wants...but if he steals kills and destroys...is he a son of the kingdom or son of satan?.....same goes for jews if they practice unrighteousness.....and that synogoge rev spoke of must have been practicing unlawful acts

 

[dfw69]

There is Sabbath and there is Sunday worship. Are both these days accepted by God? Did God institute both? Here is where the change in the law is. God asked for one of these days not either nor both. The law will be passed worldwide to keep Sunday only or suffer and when that does not work the death.

if you are a christian and believe that jesus freed you from the law...what difference does it make what day one worships him?

you believe the mark is sunday worship?.....

 

[Elder 111]

if you are a christian and believe that jesus freed you from the law...what difference does it make what day one worships him?

you believe the mark is sunday worship?.....

Yes I do. It relates to the times ans law in Daniel that is changed or sought
to be changed by the little horn. What other law can it be?

 

[dfw69]

Yes I do. It relates to the times ans law in Daniel that is changed or sought
to be changed by the little horn. What other law can it be?

What do you mean?

 

[Elder 111]

What do you mean?

Dan. 7:
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
It is certainly not the case of every day laws of a country or countries. What law would interest God other than that that breaks His commandments?
Interesting enough the Sabbath law encounters both. Time and law.

 

[dfw69]

Dan. 7:
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
It is certainly not the case of every day laws of a country or countries. What law would interest God other than that that breaks His commandments?
Interesting enough the Sabbath law encounters both. Time and law.

this prophecy can be said to be fulfilled in the future....the antichrist will come and change times and laws in the future...such as binding all to the torah....change sunday worship back to saturday....end holidays such as easter halloween christmas...and persecute saints who are in the faith...

 

[dfw69]

That's not the point. The historic orthodox Christian view is that the church is the continuation of the Israel we read about in the old testament. The country that was established by the UN in 1948 is a far cry from that and has zero eschatological significance, contrary to what dispensationalist prophecy buffs like Hal Lindsey and John Hagee would have you believe.

i dont listen to hal linsey or john hagge....i dont believe the church is a continuation of israel...nor have i ever attend a church that does...
The first time i heard of this doctrine was on forums....the talk radio i listen to never taught we are israel....but that israel will recieve the promises that god has for them....i believe to say the church is the northern kingdom is anti semitism....

whoever establish israel in1948....there are still all the tribes of israel....the tribes exist....

 

[dfw69]

Romans 11:
11 Again I ask: Did they (israel) stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclution bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

yes.... Israel will one day accept the messiah....

 

[dana b]

Dana b....it is my understanding....that the house of israel includes judah....for 12 tribes are of the house of israel....jesus wantedhis disciples to witness to all israel.....in the days of christ....all tribes live in judeah....thus judeans or jews....i believe all israel as a whole rejected the messiah...not just judah....

i also believe god will fulfill the promises made to israel seed...and they will have thier land promised to them.....when the messiah gathers them as promised to israel....

Each tribe lived in it's own lands which Moses dictated to them. The tribe of Judah/jews lived in Judea.

The Apostle Paul said that the Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah.

Jesus told his apostles to take his message only to the "lost tribes of Israel.

Judah was a tribe set apart when Israel split up. The name Israel was only retained by all of the other tribes. The jews were called the kingdom of Judah. All of the other tribes used the name of Israel.

Today it is the tribe of Judah who still reject Jesus as the Messiah. They still try to follow the Old Testament laws of Moses. Everybody knows this.

Did Jesus fail in having his apostle take his message to the "lost tribes of Israel." I think not. Jesus mission did not fail. It was only the tribe of Judah who would not accept him and killed him. That is in the New Testament clearly written. The ones who accepted Jesus became the Christians. The places where they accepted Jesus's teaching en mass became the European Christian nations.

It was the European Christian Cultures that invented the modern world. All of the other peoples of this world have copied the Christian inventions and continue to do this still.

Why was it the European Christians who by and large invented everything. It was a fulfilment of the prophesies that they who followed Christ would be glorified.

All of this is well know and easily seen, but is not politically correct according to those who control our govenments and media today.

 

[dfw69]

Each tribe lived in it's own lands which Moses dictated to them. The tribe of Judah/jews lived in Judea.

The Apostle Paul said that the Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah.

Jesus told his apostles to take his message only to the "lost tribes of Israel.

Judah was a tribe set apart when Israel split up. The name Israel was only retained by all of the other tribes. The jews were called the kingdom of Judah. All of the other tribes used the name of Israel.

Today it is the tribe of Judah who still reject Jesus as the Messiah. They still try to follow the Old Testament laws of Moses. Everybody knows this.

Did Jesus fail in having his apostle take his message to the "lost tribes of Israel." I think not. Jesus mission did not fail. It was only the tribe of Judah who would not accept him and killed him. That is in the New Testament clearly written. The ones who accepted Jesus became the Christians. The places where they accepted Jesus's teaching en mass became the European Christian nations.

It was the European Christian Cultures that invented the modern world. All of the other peoples of this world have copied the Christian inventions and continue to do this still.

Why was it the European Christians who by and large invented everything. It was a fulfilment of the prophesies that they who followed Christ would be glorified.

All of this is well know and easily seen, but is not politically correct according to those who control our govenments and media today.

believe what you want dana....but please read rom 11:11 again....pual clearly teaches israel fell that us gentiles may be grafted in....and when israel recieves her king....we will live again

 

[dana b]

believe what you want dana....but please read rom 11:11 again....pual clearly teaches israel fell that us gentiles may be grafted in....and when israel recieves her king....we will live again

Yes, this is interesting. So then Jesus told his apostles to take his message only to the lost tribes of Israel but even when they did, they somehow failed? Interesting.

Paul says that the Israelites have been blinded so we European Gentiles could be grafted in.

Meanwhile the tribe of Judah is separate from all of this. They were not a lost tribe who got taken off by Assyria.

 

[dfw69]

Yes, this is interesting. So then Jesus told his apostles to take his message only to the lost tribes of Israel but even when they did, they somehow failed? Interesting.

Paul says that the Israelites have been blinded so we European Gentiles could be grafted in.

Meanwhile the tribe of Judah is separate from all of this. They were not a lost tribe who got taken off by Assyria.

wait are you agreeing?..lol

what i see from this is that he commanded them not to go to judah...perhaps to protect them....

 

[Elder 111]

this prophecy can be said to be fulfilled in the future....the antichrist will come and change times and laws in the future...such as binding all to the torah....change sunday worship back to saturday....end holidays such as easter halloween christmas...and persecute saints who are in the faith...

Based on what? Did god ever asked to keep Sunday? Eater? Halloween or Christmas? Show me in Scripture!

 

[dfw69]

Based on what? Did god ever asked to keep Sunday? Eater? Halloween or Christmas? Show me in Scripture!

what do you want me to do?....show how thrse worldly holidays are scriptual?...there not...they are just innocent holidays...whats evil about them?...are people going to hell for such practices?

 

[Elder 111]

what do you want me to do?....show how thrse worldly holidays are scriptual?...there not...they are just innocent holidays...whats evil about them?...are people going to hell for such practices?

I will not deal with that at all. Your reply answers the question. There are not scriptural nor do they point to sin. That makes it clear that God would not be concern about them and therefore not what He referred to in Daniel. So why mention them? The Sabbath is part of God law that has been changed and not by Him. There is no other time or law that can be referred to,

 

[dfw69]

I will not deal with that at all. Your reply answers the question. There are not scriptural nor do they point to sin. That makes it clear that God would not be concern about them and therefore not what He referred to in Daniel. So why mention them? The Sabbath is part of God law that has been changed and not by Him. There is no other time or law that can be referred to,

the reason i mention the elder is because i believe the law will be used in the last days to
judge and condemn what the law holds as sin.....that when the false messiah comes he will place all under his law....everything that is contrary to the law will be dealt with during this false millenium....even now some already judge that sunday worship is wrong...that the holidays i mention are pagan holidays....thus have already judge in thier hearts...man has no right to judge man...alll that do will face judgement themselves....in that they reap what they sow....in the last days ....these things will be seen for what they are...unrighteous acts