What do you think the "mark" will be, and will it be obvious?

[Stan Tei]

Achilles6129, I like that. Note also two things: there is another use of the word stigma, and that is the word stigmata, which is the spontaneous bleeding of one's hands or that of a statue, similar to the bleeding of the hands of Christ.
#2 Those who are not allowed to buy or sell, do not get the mark. And of course, that is the group which one desires to be a part of.

 

[dana b]

Mabye the onus in this Biblical statement is on the "buying and selling" more than it is about the number. Adam and Eve did no buying and selling yet lived well. But under the third seal of Revelations all food and drink are weighed and sold.

Will the second Adam still need shopkeepers for his sustenence or will he return to the self-sufficient garden?

 

[drjean]

I also believe the Bible supports a literal mark of identification for those who agree to follow the world's philosophy that denies Jesus Christ. I think it changes over time because it is of the devil and he doesn't know when Jesus will return so, just like the person who would take the reigns of World Leader, etc., changes with time as Satan has to have it ready to go each era, the type or conveyance of the "mark" also changes. It improves with technology as well.

Never before this generation was there a good way to perform such an act...that of organizing and tracking everyone in the world. Even though we are approaching 7 billion people, the computers being created are equipped now to do this. (In fact, one of the latest computers has the capacity to log 3000 transactions per SECOND per PERSON ... at 6 1/2 billion people at the time.) It's no hope for us and a good thing the rapture occurs before the chaos... because we are all already in the system (even if you aren't part of facebook!)

Closer and closer to a cashless society we move... and right now in the USA the government has the information on our checking and savings accounts and access to withdraw our funds (this came with the health care initiative and has already been put into place, to deduct the fees of penalty if we don't sign up---I closed one account and moved to a different bank that hadn't yet set this up.)

Think about your limitations if you have NO CASH and money, gold, silver have no value as it's all done electronically.

IDK what the actual element will be, and as I said, I think it changes with technology. The issue will be that gold and silver will be useless, and unless you have this identifier you won't be able to work, pay bills, buy food etc., except for maybe an underground... but how long one who comes to Christ after the rapture and before the second coming lives, I have no idea. Many will be beheaded when found out and refuse to convert against Jesus.

Looking for the rapture I am!

 

[Bible2]

Fiona01 said in post #1:

What do you think the "mark" will be, and will it be obvious?

The "mark of the beast" (Rev. 13:16-17, 16:2) will be obvious, for it will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to humans, for otherwise they couldn't tell whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Rev. 13:17), & because Rev. 13:16's original Greek shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads, & probably by scarification. For 1 of the definitions of "charagma" (the original Greek word used in Rev. 13:16 to refer to the mark) is a scratch or etching, & scarification is the scratching or etching (i.e. the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Rev. 13:16, in the context of what had been shown just previously in Rev. 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Rev. 13:4, 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the AC, the individual-man aspect of the beast) & his image (Rev. 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

The mark will consist of only the AC's name "or" the gematrial number of his name (666) (Rev. 13:17-18), meaning the mark will be the AC's name for some people & the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hands (probably on the palms) of people "or" on their foreheads (Rev. 13:16), meaning it will be placed on the right hands of some people & on the foreheads of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the AC's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Rev. 13:17), & they'll be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the AC & his image (Rev. 13:15, 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the AC's mark or worship him or his image, for those who agree to do those things (even if they're Christians) will suffer God's wrath in fire & brimstone forever (Rev. 14:9-13), whereas those Christians who refuse to do those things, even though they'll be beheaded, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the church) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 20:4-6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,52-58). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Cor. 5:8, Philip. 1:21,23, Rev. 6:9-10, Lk. 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the AC as God (Rev. 13:8, 2 Thes. 2:4, Dan. 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palms, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palms (cf. also Isa. 49:16). Other of the AC's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their foreheads, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Rev. 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the foreheads of obedient Christians (Rev. 3:12). The AC's miracle-working False Prophet (the FP), who'll be the one to cause everyone to be marked with the AC's mark (Rev. 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the FP) is Jesus returned (but he won't say he's Christ or God, for he & the AC will deny that Jesus is Christ or God: 1 Jn. 2:22).

Will the mark literally be a 666 . . .

It could be in some cases, for instead of having the AC's name engraved on their right hands or foreheads, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (Rev. 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hands or foreheads. The gematrial number of the AC's name is 666 (Rev. 13:17c-18). But because some people could refuse to have this number placed on their bodies, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". E.g., it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", "WWW", "VVV", "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", and it's transliterated into English either as a "W" or a "V". Also, 2 thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

 

[Bible2]

Fiona01 said in post #1:

I didn't know if the 666 was literal or symbolic for something?!

The "666" in Rev. 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred & sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual "man" who's the Antichrist (the AC, the individual-man aspect of the beast). The number of a name is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the 1st 9 letters are 1 through 9, the next 9 letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), & the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Rev. 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the AC's name should be done in the same way the gematrial numerical values of the 3 Greek letters (Chi, Xi, & Stigma) at the end of Rev. 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus, the TR) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred & sixty-six. The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the 3 obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, & Sampi) were as follows:

Alpha = 1
Beta = 2
Gamma = 3
Delta = 4
Epsilon = 5
(Stigma = 6)
Zeta = 7
Eta = 8
Theta = 9
Iota = 10
Kappa = 20
Lambda = 30
Mu = 40
Nu = 50
Xi = 60
Omikron = 70
Pi = 80
(Qoppa = 90)
Rho = 100
Sigma = 200
Tau = 300
Upsilon = 400
Phi = 500
Chi = 600
Psi = 700
Omega = 800
(Sampi = 900)

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, & Stigma at the end of Rev. 13:18 (TR) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the AC's name will add up to 666 (Rev. 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet only because it was the most common 1 used by believers when Rev. was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common 1 used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the AC's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet.

 

[Stan Tei]

You could take the issue of the 2nd amendment as an example; let the Govt try to take the guns away from the people. The Gun owners outnumber any opposing force 100 to 1.

Those who would oppose the taking of any sort of mark far outnumber gun owners. And of those who are gun owners and oppose taking any kind of mark, will be prepared to give a little implant or mark of their own on those who would try to impose it.

The end is about deception. It is about the most clever and deceptive plot by the master of deception. What is made obvious by a mark, is far from any kind of deception. Satan's main objective is to get everyone to disobey God's Law. That was the first deception and is what brought sin into this world. So long as Satan can get you to break God's Law, until the day of judgment passes and it is then too late. By the time you realize that the "symbolic" mark is already on you.... then you will realize that it was all about your allegiance to God or to Satan.

 

[Bible2]

Stan Tei said in post #106:

And of those who are gun owners and oppose taking any kind of mark, will be prepared to give a little implant or mark of their own on those who would try to impose it.

In Mt. 5:39 (like in Mt. 26:52, 2 Cor. 10:3-5), Jesus commands Christians (who are under the New Covenant: Mt. 26:28, Jer. 31:31) not to employ violence against people, even in self-defense. Some Christians mistakenly think Lk. 22:36b supports Christian violence, but Lk. 22:36b means every believer must obtain the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:17, Heb. 4:12). The "two swords" which by themselves are enough for all believers together (Lk. 22:38) represent the 2 parts of God's Word: the Old Testament & the New Testament. Lk. 22:36b can't mean every believer must obtain a physical weapon, for otherwise 2 physical weapons wouldn't have been enough for 11 apostles (Lk. 22:38). And Lk. 22:36b can't mean any believer should obtain a physical weapon with which to attack other people, even in self-defense, for believers are elsewhere commanded not to defend themselves when they're attacked, but to turn the other cheek (Mt. 5:39). For those who take up a physical weapon to attack other people, even in self-defense, will perish by a weapon (Mt. 26:52).

Believers don't employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Cor. 10:3-5, Eph. 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus at his 1st coming set the example for believers of what they're to do when they're physically attacked by people (1 Pet. 2:19-23). Believers are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Rom. 8:36) just like Jesus did (Isa. 53:7). Believers know that death is no loss for them, but even gain (Philip. 1:21) as it brings their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Cor. 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this world (Philip. 1:23). During the coming tribulation, believers will have to face martyrdom with patience & faith unto the end (Rev. 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Mt. 24:9-13), just as believers have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Rev. 2:10-11). Believers mustn't fear death (Heb. 2:15), & mustn't love their lives unto death (Rev. 12:11b), but must hate their lives in this world if they're to retain eternal life (Jn. 12:25, Mk. 8:34-38).

Also, Christians are commanded by Jesus to love even their enemies (Mt. 5:44), & if Christians truly love their enemies, they'll do them no harm (Rom. 13:10a, Mt. 7:12).

The end is about deception.

The Antichrist (the AC) will have a False Prophet who'll work amazing miracles by which people will be deceived (Rev. 13:12-14, 19:20, cf. Mt. 24:24). And God will send strong delusion upon unrepentant people so they'll believe "the" lie (2 Thes. 2:11-12, in the original Greek there's a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie that's been around since the 1st century AD (2 Jn. 1:7, 1 Jn. 4:3, 2 Thes. 2:7a), & which in the future will deceive the world into the worship of both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon & the AC (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Rev. 13:4-18), the man of sin (2 Thes. 2:3-9), as God (2 Thes. 2:4, Dan. 11:36). The antichrist lie denies that Jesus of Nazareth himself is the Christ &/or the human/divine Son of God (1 Jn. 2:22), &/or denies that Christ himself is in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7), which denial is 1 of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

 

[Bible2]

Blackwater Babe said in post #44:

It's barcodes.

The "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (i.e. they have an "||" at the beginning, middle, & end of their UPC codes), & the "WWW" which has been placed on many web addresses, are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the AC ownership of everything on the earth (Rev. 13:2c, cf. Lk. 4:7), & of the AC's placing of his "brand" on everything, like a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "|| || ||" & "WWW" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the AC's name (Rev. 13:17c-18) (see the last paragraph of post #104, & see post #105). But Rev. 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes, nor by some web addresses having "WWW", for Rev. 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the AC's mark, either on their right hand or forehead.

 

[Stan Tei]

Bible2. We do not live in an idealist world. You are correct that true genuine Christians do not employ violence. But we do not live in an ideal world, and there are millions who call themselves Christians, who do have guns, and do not hesitate to use them. Do not forget history. The crusade wars... all in the name of "Christianity". If you give one ruling religions class the power, and they lord it over all others who do not believe as they do. The reality is; that if some power starts imposing a mark of any kind, there ARE those who will rebel against that.

Barcodes do not have the three sixes in them. They are space bars, not six bars. It has nothing to do with the number 666. The number is not "three sixes"... it is six hundred, sixty, six, and is the result of counting, not just the presence of three 6's.
Neither is the World Wide Web related to the number 666 of the prophecy.

 

[TorahxKeeper]

It amazes me that Christianity is so concerned over the Mark of the Beast. Like it is the only thing within end time prophecy that matters.

How do you miss the fact that there 2 specific principles concerning the Mark that are the most important?

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

First the Mark is Identifiable..You will have to Know what it is.

Second you have a Choice! To accept it or not too

These are the ones who chose NOT to accept it!

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

These are the ones who do not have the Mark!

This is what happens to those who chose the Mark

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So what is Identifiable? The Law ..The Torah...The Commandments of G-D

G-d Tells us we Love HIM by keeping the Law!

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

So therefore the truth is you cannot Love G-D unless you follow HIS Law!

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Being that sin IS breaking the Law, and if you do it you don't even KNOW G-D!

You might want to identify the Law...because that is what is Identifiable.

The second thing is Choice! You chose to follow the Law , to Choose to LOVE G-D and Chose to KNOW HIM....Then HE will know You.

YAHWEH identifies HIS people as those who chose to obey HIS Commandments.

If you continue to follow the Beast's traditions and his commands..then you already have the Mark..because you have made your choice already.

You have not identified the Law as necessary in your walk with G-D because you have chosen.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Did not Jesus say who he was?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Don't you realize that is this verse HE is comparing himself to the Law!!!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What is the Word ..The word is the Law ..the Torah

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus came to be the Living Torah..the Word (law) in the flesh

Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

So the Law is the Way ..the Truth...and the Life!!!

So therefore NO ONE comes to the Father without the LAW!!

King David was known as a man after G-D's Heart ....Read Psalms 119 in it's entirety...Follow what is says and you too will be a Man (or woman) after G-D's Heart.

Shalom (peace be with you)

 

[zeke37]

simply see Ex13, Deut6, Deut11 for a proper explanaition
of what that "kind" of "mark" is.

it is NOT literal at all.

 

[Manasseh_]

simply see Ex13, Deut6, Deut11 for a proper explanaition
of what that "kind" of "mark" is.

it is NOT literal at all.

not literal in what sense, as in it's not like a tattoo or an "implanted chip"........................? just trying to understand what you mean by not literal

 

[zeke37]

correct...not literal like a tattoo or micro chip....
it is not something that someone can physically see or touch....
at least it was not in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11
where the same kind of mark is described,
but for God, instead of Satan.

 

[danielAMx]

An RFID microchip for medical purposes and "security purposes" elicited by the US government and later world government. Also joining with the Catholic Church at the end times after the vatican takes over.

 

[Douggg]

An RFID microchip for medical purposes and "security purposes" elicited by the US government and later world government. Also joining with the Catholic Church at the end times after the vatican takes over.

The Vatican is not going to take over anything. The Vatican is going to be destroyed when the Antichrist in the 4th stage of his career, is supported by the ten European kings who will buy into this claim to be God, and will burn the Vatican to the ground, and possibly Rome gets destroyed in the process.

The Pope is not going to be the Antichrist because at the 2nd stage of his career, the Antichrist has to be embraced by the Jews as their messiah, which the Pope doesn't qualifiy for since he is not a Jew, and his religion is not Judaism.

The four stages of the Antichrist's career.

stage 1: Emerges as the little horn politician out of Europe
stage 2. Embraced by the Jews as their messiah.
stage 3. reveals himself as the man of sin, the Jews drop him as their messiah.
stage 4. the Antichrist beast

Doug

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post 113:

it is not something that someone can physically see or touch....
at least it was not in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11
where the same kind of mark is described,
but for God, instead of Satan.

Ex. 13:9 (like Deut. 6:8, 11:18) doesn't require the Antichrist's future mark of his name or the gematrial number of his name (666) on the right hand or forehead (Rev. 13:16-18) won't be a literal, visible mark, applied via scarification (see post 104), just as Ex. 13:9 doesn't require the forbidden "cuttings" marks in Lev. 19:28, 21:5 weren't literal, visible marks, applied via scarification, & just as Ex. 13:9 doesn't require the "cuttings" on the hands in Jer. 48:37 wouldn't be literal, visible marks, applied via scarification, & just as Ex. 13:9 doesn't require the marks of the Lord Jesus on Paul's body (Gal. 6:17) weren't literal, visible marks (i.e. scars from persecution), or that the future mark of God's name on obedient believers (Rev 22:4, 3:12) won't be a literal, visible mark (miraculously "written" on them).

 

[Bible2]

danielAMx said in post 114:

An RFID microchip

While the Antichrist could seek to inject RFID microchips into everyone (which could be used like debit cards), the microchips would be separate from the "mark of the beast" (Rev. 16:2, 13:16-18), for Rev. 13:17b-18 shows it won't be a microchip, but only the Antichrist's name or the gematrial number of his name (666). Also Rev. 13:16's original Greek shows the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads, & probably by scarification (see post 104).

 

[zeke37]

Ex13, Deut6, Deut11,
a mark described as such is not literal/physical.
the scripture actually teaches us that

why you'd argue is beyond me.

 

[Aijalon]

Ex13, Deut6, Deut11,
a mark described as such is not literal/physical.
the scripture actually teaches us that

why you'd argue is beyond me.

Don't you see the "buying and selling" as a pretty physical thing? How will people recognize those who have the spiritual mark in order that they can legally sell stuff to them?

 

[Douggg]

Don't you see the "buying and selling" as a pretty physical thing? How will people recognize those who have the spiritual mark in order that they can legally sell stuff to them?