What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

[BobRyan]

The mark, ex. a logo or royal seal;
The name, ex. Vicarius Filii Dei;
The number, [unknown symbol] meaning 666.

The Beast's identity will be clear with the second group.
Group three would only serve as a means of confirmation among Believers.

The number of the name "Vicarius Filii Dei" adds up to 666

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Certainly saints have been persecuted are being persecuted and will be persecuted - but I don't see anywhere where all saints are slain in the future.

Somewhere it is written that Yahweh answers those under the altar who are crying for Him to Execute His Vengeance
with something like - "wait a little while - AFTER the last MARTYR has been killed, I WILL EXECUTE MY VENGEANCE QUICKLY ! "

And million plus have been martyred in the last 15 years or so....

 

[Sabertooth]

The number of the name "Vicarius Filii Dei" adds up to 666

I know, but there is no form of the mark that will be obviously 666 to unbelievers, per Revelation 13:18.

 

[BobRyan]

I know, but there is no form of the mark that will be obviously 666 to unbelievers, per Revelation 13:18.

The text is trying to "give us a clue" when it says "the number of his name is 666" about "the name". God is warning us in advance to look into this detail.

 

[BobRyan]

Somewhere it is written that Yahweh answers those under the altar who are crying for Him to Execute His Vengeance
with something like - "wait a little while - AFTER the last MARTYR has been killed, I WILL EXECUTE MY VENGEANCE QUICKLY ! "

And million plus have been martyred in the last 15 years or so....

But it does not say that no saints are alive at the second coming. in fact 1 Thess 4 specifically says "we who ARE a live" at that second coming rise up on the air with those who are now resurrected.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Seventh-day Adventists, from their inception, have been taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

The Sabbath
The gracious* Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God's (58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.) perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6;
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
The Sabbath :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

The judgment-hour message points particularly to the time when, as the last phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ entered upon His work of judgment...

This message also calls on all to worship the Creator. God's call to worship must be seen in contrast to the summons to worship the beast and his image (Rev. 13:3, 8, 15). Soon everyone will have to make a choice between true and false worship—between worshiping God on His terms (righteousness by faith) or on our terms (righteousness by works). By commanding us "'to worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water'" (Rev. 14:7; cf. Ex. 20:11), this message calls attention to the fourth commandment. It leads people into true worship of the Creator, an experience that involves honoring His memorial of Creation—the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, which He instituted at Creation and affirmed in the Ten Commandments (see chapter 19 of this book). The first angel's message, therefore, calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath. This is the sign of God's Creation—a sign neglected by the vast majority of His created beings.
Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . . The Remnant and Its Mission: 27-12.htm

This:
"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe, p. 167, Review and Herald (1989).

* formerly beneficent

And as I recall, their threads here of defense of the claim didn't hold up well at all.

 

[BobRyan]

Seems to be doing pretty good on this thread so far

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Hummm..I don't know..it could be anything..heck it could be the Micky D's logo, who cares...

 

[Major1]

<no answer so far>




Why do you think it is a sin according to Rev 13 and 14 to be "identified" or to have buying/selling under some sort of control/monitor? (Hint it is not a sin to monitor, to have a credit card, SSN etc)

Nor does the bible say it is a sin for someone to know you are a Christian



Not sure if we agree on that or not -- on the surface it looks like we agree.




But nobody will be going around saying "I have the mark of the beast to give out -- do you want it?" nor will anyone being say "I am the antichrist - please choose me over Christ" --- perhaps we both agree on that as well.



So far you have said nothing to oppose anything posted on this thread by me..

Do you wish to make some statement??

Details -- do you have details?

You said...…..……
"But nobody will be going around saying "I have the mark of the beast to give out -- do you want it?" nor will anyone being say "I am the antichrist - please choose me over Christ" --- perhaps we both agree on that as well.

But the Bible says in Rev. 13:16.....
"HE also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads".

The Mark will be a visible manifestation by which the unbelievers will show their allegiance to the A/C. The mark of the beast will be a literal, physical combination of letters and symbols. It will be permanently and prominently engraved or tatooed on the forehead or right hand of each person who gets the mark of the beast.

The mark of the beast will look attractive and beautiful so that it will satisfy the vanity of women. It will please the senses and will excite the admiration of those who see it. Most people who wear it will be proud to have it.

 

[Major1]

Certainly saints have been persecuted are being persecuted and will be persecuted - but I don't see anywhere where all saints are slain in the future.

Yu are correct. NOT ALL the saints will be killed, HOWEVER a great number will die because of their faith in Christ.

During the 7 year tribulation, there will be terrible wars, famines, plagues, and natural disasters. God will be pouring out His wrath against sin, evil, and wickedness and that action alone will effect believers left behind after the RAPTURE.

When in rains in Orlando, EVERYONE gets wet.

The tribulation will include the appearance of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, and the seven seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments.

Then when we consider that the A/C will be trying to eradicate all who oppose him and the Bible fact that without the Mark of the Beast which NO believer will take, there will be a great number of believers who will parish from hunger because they can not buy sell or trade.

 

[woobadooba]

I believe the Sabbath command is still binding. But there is no evidence to my knowledge in the Bible suggesting worshiping God on a Sunday is the mark of the beast. If worshiping God on Sunday is the mark of the beast, then that would suggest it was always wrong to do. For God does not change (see Mal. 3:6).

Having said that, where in the Bible does it say it is wrong to worship God on a Sunday?

 

[Tone]

Hummm..I don't know..it could be anything..heck it could be the Micky D's logo, who cares...

... trademark of the beast...TRUMP is a brand right...

 

[Tone]

I believe the Sabbath command is still binding. But there is no evidence to my knowledge in the Bible suggesting worshiping God on a Sunday is the mark of the beast. If worshiping God on Sunday is the mark of the beast, then that would suggest it was always wrong to do. For God does not change (see Mal. 3:6).

Having said that, where in the Bible does it say it is wrong to worship God on a Sunday?

I've heard it said that when it becomes civil law....or a social contract...a willing "deal" to exchange a good conscience before Yah for economic/Civic privilege.

I've also considered "civil unions" and maybe a tax (at first) for those who don't recognize them.

"Beginning with Denmark in 1989, civil unions under one name or another have been established by law in several, mostly developed, countries in order to provide legal recognition of relationships formed by unmarried same-sex couples and to afford them rights, benefits, tax breaks, and responsibilities similar or identical to those of legally married couples."

"Registered partnership was by civil ceremony only, but the Church of Denmark allowed priests to perform blessings of same-sex couples"

----Wiki

 

[woobadooba]

I've heard it said that when it becomes civil law....or a social contract...a willing "deal" to exchange a good conscience before Yah for economic/Civic privilege.

I've also considered "civil marriages" and maybe a tax (at first) for those who don't recognize them.

I've heard that too. But it doesn't make sense. Will not the people who keep the Sabbath holy at that time also worship God on Sunday? And what about the rest of the week? Are we to assume Sabbath keepers will specifically stop worshiping God on Sunday when the mark of the beast is established to demonstrate they do not belong to a false religion?

God commanded His people to keep the Sabbath day holy. But He did not command us to never dedicate any other days or times to Him for worship.

I think there is a lot more to the Mark of the Beast than we understand, but all things will be revealed in time. It is not proper to make absolutes out of speculation.

 

[Tone]

I've heard that too. But it doesn't make sense. Will not the people who keep the Sabbath holy at that time also worship God on Sunday? And what about the rest of the week? Are we to assume Sabbath keepers will specifically stop worshiping God on Sunday when the mark of the beast is established to demonstrate they do not belong to a false religion?

God commanded His people to keep the Sabbath day holy. But He did not command us to never dedicate any other days or times to Him for worship.

I think there is a lot more to the Mark of the Beast than we understand, but all things will be revealed in time. It is not proper to make absolutes out of speculation.

*Please see updated post #73.

I don't know what it is definitively, I'm just exploring possibilities.

 

[woobadooba]

I don't know what it is definitively, I'm just exploring possibilities.

I understand. All we can do at this time is speculate or better yet, ask God for understanding and wait for His answer. We have to be careful not to run with ideas which lack clear biblical support. Speculation could lead to loss.

One thing I believe is certain: God will not let those of us who love Him be deceived into receiving the mark of the beast. I believe it will be obvious to His people what it is when the time comes, because the Holy Spirit will open our eyes to the truth as it is one of His roles to guide us into all truth (John 16:13).

 

[klutedavid]

The number of the name "Vicarius Filii Dei" adds up to 666

Hello Bob.

'Vicarius Filii Dei' are words in the ancient Latin language. That is a dead language now.

How would any reader of the book of Revelations know that they must use the Latin language, to calculate the number of the beast?

This is getting more and more bizarre.

 

[ewq1938]

Hello Bob.

'Vicarius Filii Dei' are words in the ancient Latin language. That is a dead language now.

How would any reader of the book of Revelations know that they must use the Latin language, to calculate the number of the beast?

This is getting more and more bizarre.

Nothing in this was bizarre until the word bizarre was bizarrely used.

 

[klutedavid]

Nothing in this was bizarre until the word bizarre was bizarrely used.

Your telling me that the churches in the first century that received the book of Revelation.

Would somehow know that they must translate Latin words into numbers to calculate the number of the beast?

Given that Koine Greek was the spoken language and Revelation was written in Koine Greek.

The beast will have a Latin name from a dead Latin language?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

<no answer so far>




Why do you think it is a sin according to Rev 13 and 14 to be "identified" or to have buying/selling under some sort of control/monitor? (Hint it is not a sin to monitor, to have a credit card, SSN etc)

Nor does the bible say it is a sin for someone to know you are a Christian

I believe that we are all born in sin and so receive the mark...man's number...doomed until we come to faith. 666 (fallen man's number as stated, created on the 6th day...the number 666 is found in the O.T. as well and there, in one of about three occurrences, represents the number of talents of gold Solomon received yearly at one point in time.) Where Revelation informs of the mark of the beast...666...Jesus says calculate the number of the beast for it is man's number (this takes a mind of wisdom). Solomon was premier as Scripture's man of wisdom. One begins then to make a link between this receiving of the mark and perhaps money...the love of money. But one can go further and perhaps conclude that it is all sin...idolatry...(due to the omission of the Tribe of Dan in the listing of the tribes...Tribe of Dan was lost to idolatry). It was Solomon, the man of wisdom, who was led into idolatry by his many godless wives. Much consideration and thought should go into conclusions here.
Christians who are wise...bought gold from the Lord (as Jesus asks in Revelation 3:18, that is to say)...and sell out for some form of sin; I believe one can conclude they receive the mark of the beast and this is what is spoken of. "Buying and selling" can be looked at with this same interpretation in my view.
I believe as someone else here also stated that the mark of the beast is upon all mankind but removed in Christ.