What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

[ewq1938]

Your telling me that the churches in the first century that received the book of Revelation.

I re-read my post and don't see any reference to me saying that.

Would somehow know that they must translate Latin words into numbers to calculate the number of the beast?

That's nothing complex.

Given that Koine Greek was the spoken language and Revelation was written in Koine Greek.

What does that have to do with the language a name is from?

The beast will have a Latin name from a dead Latin language?

Possibly.

 

[Tone]

I believe that we are all born in sin and so receive the mark...man's number...doomed until we come to faith. 666 (fallen man's number as stated, created on the 6th day...the number 666 is found in the O.T. as well and there, in one of about three occurrences, represents the number of talents of gold Solomon received yearly at one point in time.) Where Revelation informs of the mark of the beast...666...Jesus says calculate the number of the beast for it is man's number (this takes a mind of wisdom). Solomon was premier as Scripture's man of wisdom. One begins then to make a link between this receiving of the mark and perhaps money...the love of money. But one can go further and perhaps conclude that it is all sin...idolatry...(due to the omission of the Tribe of Dan in the listing of the tribes...Tribe of Dan was lost to idolatry). It was Solomon, the man of wisdom, who was led into idolatry by his many godless wives. Much consideration and thought should go into conclusions here.
Christians who are wise...bought gold from the Lord (as Jesus asks in Revelation 3:18, that is to say)...and sell out for some form of sin; I believe one can conclude they receive the mark of the beast and this is what is spoken of. "Buying and selling" can be looked at with this same interpretation in my view.
I believe as someone else here also stated that the mark of the beast is upon all mankind but removed in Christ.

It's funny that you mentioned the tribe of Dan, I just read somewhere recently that the false prophet, or beast, or the son of perdition (one of those characters) is supposed to arise from the Danites.

Denmark means "Dan's Mark" and some believe that when Israel was scattered that tribe went to the far north...

"Denmark (Danish: Danmark, pronounced [ˈdanmɑɡ] (listen)), officially the Kingdom of Denmark,[N 9] is a Nordic country and the southernmost of the Scandinavian nations. The sovereign state is southwest of Sweden and south of Norway,[N 10] and bordered to the south by Germany. The Kingdom of Denmark also comprises two autonomous constituent countries in the North Atlantic Ocean: the Faroe Islandsand Greenland."
----Wiki

If you read about Denmark you'll find some interesting stuff including church/state conflicts. Also, refer to post #73 for more info.

*I found it:

"Dan refused to shed his brother's blood ; and, rather than go to war with Judah, he left the country, and went in a body to Greece, to Javan, and to Denmark."

And:

"The selection of the twelve tribes does not include the names of Ephraim and Dan, although their names were used for the twelve tribes that settled in the Promised Land. It has been suggested that this could be because of their pagan practices.[25]This led Irenaeus,[26]Hippolytus of Romeand some Millennialists to propose that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan."

--Wiki

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It's funny that you mentioned the tribe of Dan, I just read somewhere recently that the false prophet, or beast, or the son of perdition (one of those characters) is supposed to arise from the Danites.

Denmark means "Dan's Mark" and some believe that when Israel was scattered that tribe went to the far north...

"Denmark (Danish: Danmark, pronounced [ˈdanmɑɡ] (listen)), officially the Kingdom of Denmark,[N 9] is a Nordic country and the southernmost of the Scandinavian nations. The sovereign state is southwest of Sweden and south of Norway,[N 10] and bordered to the south by Germany. The Kingdom of Denmark also comprises two autonomous constituent countries in the North Atlantic Ocean: the Faroe Islandsand Greenland."
----Wiki

If you read about Denmark you'll find some interesting stuff including church/state conflicts. Also, refer to post #73 for more info.

*I found it:

"Dan refused to shed his brother's blood ; and, rather than go to war with Judah, he left the country, and went in a body to Greece, to Javan, and to Denmark."

And:

"The selection of the twelve tribes does not include the names of Ephraim and Dan, although their names were used for the twelve tribes that settled in the Promised Land. It has been suggested that this could be because of their pagan practices.[25]This led Irenaeus,[26]Hippolytus of Romeand some Millennialists to propose that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan."

--Wiki

I hope I don't sound like a millenialist...I'm not one at all. I believe in interpretation by using Scripture to interpret Scripture. I believe that as the book of Proverbs informs us in its opening statements that the Bible contains proverbs, riddles and sayings of the wise. May God grant us all the wisdom to grasp them to our benefit.

 

[Major1]

Hummm..I don't know..it could be anything..heck it could be the Micky D's logo, who cares...

No one today cares as the Mark of the Beast has not been put into place.

Or has it?????

Are you aware that every human being in the USA is given a SS # at birth now?
It wasn't too long ago that a SS # was not needed until you actually began to work. Then it was at age 16 and now at birth.

Is it a stretch to think that such a number would be required by the A/C during the Tribulation Peroid but instead of a card in your wallet it would be an attractive tattoo on your hand?

Just a thought.

Are you aware that 98% of all retail trade is now done through the UPC bar code system.

 

[Major1]

I believe that we are all born in sin and so receive the mark...man's number...doomed until we come to faith. 666 (fallen man's number as stated, created on the 6th day...the number 666 is found in the O.T. as well and there, in one of about three occurrences, represents the number of talents of gold Solomon received yearly at one point in time.) Where Revelation informs of the mark of the beast...666...Jesus says calculate the number of the beast for it is man's number (this takes a mind of wisdom). Solomon was premier as Scripture's man of wisdom. One begins then to make a link between this receiving of the mark and perhaps money...the love of money. But one can go further and perhaps conclude that it is all sin...idolatry...(due to the omission of the Tribe of Dan in the listing of the tribes...Tribe of Dan was lost to idolatry). It was Solomon, the man of wisdom, who was led into idolatry by his many godless wives. Much consideration and thought should go into conclusions here.
Christians who are wise...bought gold from the Lord (as Jesus asks in Revelation 3:18, that is to say)...and sell out for some form of sin; I believe one can conclude they receive the mark of the beast and this is what is spoken of. "Buying and selling" can be looked at with this same interpretation in my view.
I believe as someone else here also stated that the mark of the beast is upon all mankind but removed in Christ.

I respect your thinking, however it is NOT what the Bible says.

Revelation 13:15-17......
"And HE had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

"HE" is a personal; pronoun so then the A/C will be a man controlled by Satan.

AFTER the Rapture the 7 year Tribulation begins and it is THEN that the A/C and false prophet come into world wide power. It is at that point when men will forced to make a choice to receive the Mark of The Beast and not today.

As far as Christ removing the Mark of the Beast from men today, again that is not Biblical as there is NO Mark of the Beast today.

Christ PAID the penalty for humanities SIN so that all men can be saved from the Judgment by accepting Jesus Christ today as there Saviour.

 

[Major1]

I understand. All we can do at this time is speculate or better yet, ask God for understanding and wait for His answer. We have to be careful not to run with ideas which lack clear biblical support. Speculation could lead to loss.

One thing I believe is certain: God will not let those of us who love Him be deceived into receiving the mark of the beast. I believe it will be obvious to His people what it is when the time comes, because the Holy Spirit will open our eyes to the truth as it is one of His roles to guide us into all truth (John 16:13).

I Agree. However, we today are not the ones who will be challenged with the Mark.

It will be after the A/C comes to power.

2 Thess. 2:6-10...…….
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

The Holy Spirit IMO is the "HE who now letteth until HE be taken out of the way".

The Holy Spirit is the RESTRAINER IMO. When HE is removed at the Rapture of believers, the A/C will come upon the sceen.

He will not be recognized as Satan's man because only the wicked lost will be left after the Rapture.

 

[YeshuaFan]

<no answer so far>




Why do you think it is a sin according to Rev 13 and 14 to be "identified" or to have buying/selling under some sort of control/monitor? (Hint it is not a sin to monitor, to have a credit card, SSN etc)

Nor does the bible say it is a sin for someone to know you are a Christian

All I know for sure is that it is NOT the Mark of the Beast to be worshipping on Sunday!

 

[Major1]

It's funny that you mentioned the tribe of Dan, I just read somewhere recently that the false prophet, or beast, or the son of perdition (one of those characters) is supposed to arise from the Danites.

Denmark means "Dan's Mark" and some believe that when Israel was scattered that tribe went to the far north...

"Denmark (Danish: Danmark, pronounced [ˈdanmɑɡ] (listen)), officially the Kingdom of Denmark,[N 9] is a Nordic country and the southernmost of the Scandinavian nations. The sovereign state is southwest of Sweden and south of Norway,[N 10] and bordered to the south by Germany. The Kingdom of Denmark also comprises two autonomous constituent countries in the North Atlantic Ocean: the Faroe Islandsand Greenland."
----Wiki

If you read about Denmark you'll find some interesting stuff including church/state conflicts. Also, refer to post #73 for more info.

*I found it:

"Dan refused to shed his brother's blood ; and, rather than go to war with Judah, he left the country, and went in a body to Greece, to Javan, and to Denmark."

And:

"The selection of the twelve tribes does not include the names of Ephraim and Dan, although their names were used for the twelve tribes that settled in the Promised Land. It has been suggested that this could be because of their pagan practices.[25]This led Irenaeus,[26]Hippolytus of Romeand some Millennialists to propose that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan."

--Wiki

Many Bible teachers have said that the exclusion of the tribe of Dan was because of their idolatry, and as a tribe, they led the ten northern tribes into idolatry, and to go on to lose their ethnic identity.

In the context of the book of Revelation, the fact that the mark of the Beast is placed on idolaters would lend credence to that conclusion.

Just a thought!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I respect your thinking, however it is NOT what the Bible says.

Revelation 13:15-17......
"And HE had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And HE causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

"HE" is a personal; pronoun so then the A/C will be a man controlled by Satan.

AFTER the Rapture the 7 year Tribulation begins and it is THEN that the A/C and false prophet come into world wide power. It is at that point when men will forced to make a choice to receive the Mark of The Beast and not today.

As far as Christ removing the Mark of the Beast from men today, again that is not Biblical as there is NO Mark of the Beast today.

Christ PAID the penalty for humanities SIN so that all men can be saved from the Judgment by accepting Jesus Christ today as there Saviour.

I do not see the difficulty with HE...I don't see the conflict with it and what I've stated. HE is Satan that caused mankind to fall and so all are marked unless they are drawn to Christ. I do see that because of the difficulty with the symbolic nature of the language you can have objection with me over when the mark is received, but at this point that is how it reads to me. I see this rendering not b/c it is the usual literary style of English language, but rather that this nature of rendering a thought (riddle-like) is found in the 1000 year reign and the manner in which not being born again is expressed...the first death.
I'll go no further because your post seems to indicate to me that you are a millennialist so much more exchange between us would have to take place before picking up on this point. I welcome such a discussion if this forum allows...I don't know that is allows however.

 

[Major1]

I do not see the difficulty with HE...I don't see the conflict with it and what I've stated. HE is Satan that caused mankind to fall and so all are marked unless they are drawn to Christ. I do see that because of the difficulty with the symbolic nature of the language you can have objection with me over when the mark is received, but at this point that is how it reads to me. I see this rendering not b/c it is the usual literary style of English language, but rather that this nature of rendering a thought (riddle-like) is found in the 1000 year reign and the manner in which not being born again is expressed...the first death.
I'll go no further because your post seems to indicate to me that you are a millennialist so much more exchange between us would have to take place before picking up on this point. I welcome such a discussion if this forum allows...I don't know that is allows however.

Correct!

It is not however what I believe but what the Bible actually says my dear friend.
I am also a "Pre-Millennialist, as well as a believer in the Rapture.

The point I was trying to make was that the Mark of the Beast will come AFTER the church is removed, THEN according to 2nd Thess. the A/C will be revealed and He will be the one who instigates the Mark of The Beast and it is not something we have today.

Psalms 2:4-9.…..
“He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, and distress them in His deep displeasure: “Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You, ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.’

Zechariah 8:3…….
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, and dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, the Mountain of the Lord of hosts, the Holy Mountain.’

Revelation 20:4-6 then sums all the Scriptures up...……..
“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

So YES, I am a Bible believer in the 1000 year rule of Christ on the Earth.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Correct!

It is not however what I believe but what the Bible actually says my dear friend.
I am also a "Pre-Millennialist, as well as a believer in the Rapture.

The point I was trying to make was that the Mark of the Beast will come AFTER the church is removed, THEN according to 2nd Thess. the A/C will be revealed and He will be the one who instigates the Mark of The Beast and it is not something we have today.

Psalms 2:4-9.…..
“He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall hold them in derision. Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, and distress them in His deep displeasure: “Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You, ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.’

Zechariah 8:3…….
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, and dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, the Mountain of the Lord of hosts, the Holy Mountain.’

Revelation 20:4-6 then sums all the Scriptures up...……..
“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

So YES, I am a Bible believer in the 1000 year rule of Christ on the Earth.

I hold to a Covenant preMil position, and have found that the main difference between premils and others is that while I see the first resurrection as at time of second coming, they tend to see it as when born again, a spiritual one!

 

[Major1]

I hold to a Covenant preMil position, and have found that the main difference between premils and others is that while I see the first resurrection as at time of second coming, they tend to see it as when born again, a spiritual one!

I understand my friend.

I view the 1st Resurrection as taking place in 3 phases.

1.
Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

2.
Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

3.
Then the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

 

[YeshuaFan]

I understand my friend.

I view the 1st Resurrection as taking place in 3 phases.

1.
Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

2.
Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

3.
Then the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Sounds good to me!

 

[woobadooba]

I Agree. However, we today are not the ones who will be challenged with the Mark.

It will be after the A/C comes to power.

2 Thess. 2:6-10...…….
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

The Holy Spirit IMO is the "HE who now letteth until HE be taken out of the way".

The Holy Spirit is the RESTRAINER IMO. When HE is removed at the Rapture of believers, the A/C will come upon the sceen.

He will not be recognized as Satan's man because only the wicked lost will be left after the Rapture.

I don't believe in the secret rapture theory. And I have already seen the out of context verses people often use to try to support such a view, so please don't feel obligated to refresh my memory.

The early church did not teach that there would be a secret rapture. This teaching first surfaced around 1830. There is no biblical support for it. It's just a theory resulting from poor Exegesis.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

No one today cares as the Mark of the Beast has not been put into place.

Or has it?????

Are you aware that every human being in the USA is given a SS # at birth now?
It wasn't too long ago that a SS # was not needed until you actually began to work. Then it was at age 16 and now at birth.

Is it a stretch to think that such a number would be required by the A/C during the Tribulation Peroid but instead of a card in your wallet it would be an attractive tattoo on your hand?

Just a thought.

Are you aware that 98% of all retail trade is now done through the UPC bar code system.

Hi..it's so funny how I have been away from this forum for a while only to find out when I come back on it, people here are still uttering nonsense...maybe he cares, maybe she cares, maybe they care, maybe you care but I do not care...this is crazy. And my Micky D logo remark was a bit of sarcasm. Though i am so tired of reading all the nonsense on the internet....much less care to respond to it anymore...some of you put too much emphasis on such things....if you don't know what you are talking about, it's best to leave that stuff alone and not act like you know..it just causes confusions and it divides and deludes the people from God and his truth..and stuff like this only promotes mental illnesses and fear..if God wanted us to know he would have made it clear but since he didn't yet its probably because these things are still to remain a mystery for now...

 

[BobRyan]

I Agree. However, we today are not the ones who will be challenged with the Mark.

It will be after the A/C comes to power.

2 Thess. 2:6-10...…….
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

It is true that the A/C is around when this happens but it is not at all certain that "We will not be around"

The Holy Spirit IMO is the "HE who now letteth until HE be taken out of the way".

Possibly correct - I agree. But what happens when the Holy Spirit is removed according to the text?

until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, ...Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

Satan stages a counterfeit second coming just before the end. But the mark of the beast is probably long before that.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't believe in the secret rapture theory. And I have already seen the out of context verses people often use to try to support such a view, so please don't feel obligated to refresh my memory.

The early church did not teach that there would be a secret rapture. This teaching first surfaced around 1830. There is no biblical support for it. It's just a theory resulting from poor Exegesis.

ok so no secret rapture - but still a 1 Thess 4:13-17 rapture at the 2nd coming -- called the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

 

[BobRyan]

All I know for sure is that it is NOT the Mark of the Beast to be worshipping on Sunday!

The OP question is "what do you think the mark of the beast is - what about it - makes it sin?".. Just saying that you don't believe something... is not it.

 

[BobRyan]

I hold to a Covenant preMil position, and have found that the main difference between premils and others is that while I see the first resurrection as at time of second coming, they tend to see it as when born again, a spiritual one!

Pre-mill all the way

 

[Major1]

I don't believe in the secret rapture theory. And I have already seen the out of context verses people often use to try to support such a view, so please don't feel obligated to refresh my memory.

The early church did not teach that there would be a secret rapture. This teaching first surfaced around 1830. There is no biblical support for it. It's just a theory resulting from poor Exegesis.

That's OK my friend. It is clearly your choice to accept or reject it and I would never argue with you.

I read the same Bible verses and teachings against it as did you and It took me awhile and a lot of deep Bible study to grasp it.