What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

[BobRyan]

What is the Mark of the Beast?
Please quote chapter and verse in the answer.
.

mmksparbud said: ↑
Do either of you know what the mark of the beast is?

bbbbbbb said: ↑
Of course we do, but we know that you do not.

By all means---enlighten us.

<no answer so far>

The mark of the beast will be an end-times identification required by the Antichrist in order to buy or sell, and it will be given only to those who worship the Antichrist.

I do not mean to be sarcastic in my response but all of this IS found in the Bible.

Why do you think it is a sin according to Rev 13 and 14 to be "identified" or to have buying/selling under some sort of control/monitor? (Hint it is not a sin to monitor, to have a credit card, SSN etc)

Nor does the bible say it is a sin for someone to know you are a Christian

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


The mark is something in the right hand or forehead. There is more than just the mark...the name of the beast and the number of that name. Both of those allows one to buy and sell also.

What the mark is not is Sunday worship when most Christians go to church.

 

[HTacianas]

<no answer so far>




Why do you think it is a sin according to Rev 13 and 14 to be "identified" or to have buying/selling under some sort of control/monitor? (Hint it is not a sin to monitor, to have a credit card, SSN etc)

Nor does the bible say it is a sin for someone to know you are a Christian

It was known as a libellus and was a certificate of sorts attesting that a person had sacrificed to the gods of ancient Rome and to the emperor. You can see one here:

Decian persecution - Wikipedia

 

[Not David]

The mark is the number of man.

 

[BobRyan]

It was known as a libellus and was a certificate of sorts attesting that a person had sacrificed to the gods of ancient Rome and to the emperor. You can see one here:

Decian persecution - Wikipedia

So then a "certificate" of sorts that indicated someone had participated in a worship practice that God condemns and that is required by the state?

So in that case it is the REASON that the indicator/sign/mark is given that is the problem.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The mark is something in the right hand or forehead. There is more than just the mark...the name of the beast and the number of that name. Both of those allows one to buy and sell also.
.

KJV/NKJV/YLT
1. The mark
2. Or the number of his name
3. or the name

For example:
Mark: X
Name: Phil
Number: 666

"the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” GC455.2

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

Number of his name = number of the beast = number of a man = 666

NASB says it this way --
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

The mark:
1. the number of his name
2. or the name

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Whoever seeks to honor and trusts the Son, has life;
whoever trusts not the Son, has not life.

Whoever trusts men/ the flesh, Yahweh curses (even believers) He says.

 

[HTacianas]

So then a "certificate" of sorts that indicated someone had participated in a worship practice that God condemns and that is required by the state?

So in that case it is the REASON that the indicator/sign/mark is given that is the problem.

Exactly. No one is required to burn incense to an emperor to get a social security number or a government ID or an identifying microchip for that matter.

 

[ewq1938]

1. The mark
2. Or the number of his name
3. or the name

NASB says it this way --
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

The mark:
1. the number of his name
2. or the name

That isn't consistent with the greek words used:

Rev 13:17 AndG2532 thatG2443 noG3361 manG5100 mightG1410 buyG59 orG2228 sell,G4453 saveG1508 he that hadG2192 theG3588 mark,G5480 orG2228 theG3588 nameG3686 of theG3588 beast,G2342 orG2228 theG3588 numberG706 of hisG848 name.G3686

It's the same word so it makes no sense to translate one as "either" and one as "or".

Clearly there are three different things: mark, name and number of name.

 

[Sabertooth]

1. The mark
2. Or the number of his name
3. or the name

NASB says it this way --
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

The mark:
1. the number of his name
2. or the name

I further elaborated on this at Observations About The Mark Of The Beast... | Christian Forums

 

[Rescued One]

Seventh-day Adventists, from their inception, have been taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

The Sabbath
The gracious* Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God's (58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.) perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6;
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
The Sabbath :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

The judgment-hour message points particularly to the time when, as the last phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ entered upon His work of judgment...

This message also calls on all to worship the Creator. God's call to worship must be seen in contrast to the summons to worship the beast and his image (Rev. 13:3, 8, 15). Soon everyone will have to make a choice between true and false worship—between worshiping God on His terms (righteousness by faith) or on our terms (righteousness by works). By commanding us "'to worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water'" (Rev. 14:7; cf. Ex. 20:11), this message calls attention to the fourth commandment. It leads people into true worship of the Creator, an experience that involves honoring His memorial of Creation—the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, which He instituted at Creation and affirmed in the Ten Commandments (see chapter 19 of this book). The first angel's message, therefore, calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath. This is the sign of God's Creation—a sign neglected by the vast majority of His created beings.
Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . . The Remnant and Its Mission: 27-12.htm

This:
"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe, p. 167, Review and Herald (1989).

* formerly beneficent

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

The mark of the beast is a very specific prophecy that is given in Revelation 13. if we look at the context of that passage we 1st see the beast is killed but survives the mortal wound. The dragon gives power to the beast and the dragon is identified for us as Satan. This power is over every tribe tongue kindred and nation and a set period of 42 months is given for him to hold this authority. It states then that the false prophet will also roll out the image of the beast at the same time and this is to be worshiped too. In Rev 19 and 20 we see what happens at the end of the 42 months. The LORD comes on the white horse with the armies of God and the beast and false prophet have moved their armies to attack the LORD. This is glorious as the dead will be many and the LORD will cast both the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire for 1000 years. Satan the dragon is bound for 1000 years and those who were martyred for refusing to take the mark and bow down to the image are said to live again and reign with Jesus upon the earth. Satan is to be released at the end of the 1000 years and leads on last rebellion.
These things are all related so what is the mark of the beast? As technology advances many new ideas could be possible. Some believe it is a bio computer upgrade that may altar you out of being made in the image of man and by merging with the technology you would be in a state you could not repent from. Others see it as RFID. Some see it as 3 different things a mark or a number or a name. The image of the beast with facial recognition and AI could be something we could not dream of 10 years ago. For sure the worship of the beast is also required along with the number. When we tie this 42 month timeline together we can see that Dan 7 and 9 make sense in relating what Rev 13 omits. That the abomination of desolation is in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel. The prince who shall come is the one in the middle of the week will put an end to the daily sacrifices. Daniel 7 shows the LORD coming after a time of great persecution and the kingdom and dominion come after the one speaking pompous words has a time times and half a time to go. This also is 42 months. 2 Thes 3 describes it too.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[fn] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God......He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Rescued One]

The name, Seventh-day Adventist, is a standing rebuke to the Protestant world. Here is the line of distinction between the worshipers of God, and those who worship the beast, and receive his mark. The great conflict is between the commandments of God and the requirements of the beast.
Read more at: Ellen G. White Quotes

 

[Sabertooth]

Seventh-day Adventists, from their inception, have been taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

It would take a shoehorn to make that fit.

 

[BobRyan]

I further elaborated on this at Observations About The Mark Of The Beast... | Christian Forums

Interesting page.

the "number of his name" - in the Empire of Rome (at the time John was writing ) used Roman numerals for numbers and they are also letters used in names so they had a practice of "adding" the number valued letters in a name to get "the number of the name". And would have been something John's readers could relate to..

 

[BobRyan]

The name, Seventh-day Adventist, is a standing rebuke to the Protestant world. Here is the line of distinction between the worshipers of God, and those who worship the beast, and receive his mark. The great conflict is between the commandments of God and the requirements of the beast.
Read more at: Ellen G. White Quotes

1. The question for the thread and the OP is "what do YOU think the mark of the beast is" you do not give any information there about what you think it is.
2. You also don't give any information about what the Adventist church thinks it is - just that Adventists don't think they will have it. (I dare say a lot of people here think the same thing about themselves -- that they will not have it either)

 

[BobRyan]

Seventh-day Adventists, from their inception, have been taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast.

The Sabbath
The gracious* Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God's (58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.) perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6;
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
The Sabbath :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

1. The statement you quote is from the 28 fundamental beliefs statement of Seventh-day Adventists. It says nothing about what the mark of the beast is or what about monitoring buying and selling would be a sin.

2. -- and you make a claim about what others believe without showing that your claim is correct.

3. the point of the thread and the OP was "what do YOU think" the mark of the beast is and why it would be a sin to have monitoring/regulating what you buy and sell.

The judgment-hour message points particularly to the time when, as the last phase of His high-priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ entered upon His work of judgment...

This message also calls on all to worship the Creator. God's call to worship must be seen in contrast to the summons to worship the beast and his image (Rev. 13:3, 8, 15). Soon everyone will have to make a choice between true and false worship—between worshiping God on His terms (righteousness by faith) or on our terms (righteousness by works). By commanding us "'to worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water'" (Rev. 14:7; cf. Ex. 20:11), this message calls attention to the fourth commandment. It leads people into true worship of the Creator, an experience that involves honoring His memorial of Creation—the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, which He instituted at Creation and affirmed in the Ten Commandments (see chapter 19 of this book). The first angel's message, therefore, calls for the restoration of true worship by presenting before the world Christ the Creator and Lord of the Bible Sabbath. This is the sign of God's Creation—a sign neglected by the vast majority of His created beings.
Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . . The Remnant and Its Mission: 27-12.htm

This:
"One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast and his image... The other class, in marked contrast, will live by the true gospel and 'keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus' (Rev. 14:9,12)... those who reject God's memorial of creatorship--the Bible Sabbath--choosing to worship and honor Sunday...will receive the mark of the beast."
Seventh-day Adventists Believe, p. 167, Review and Herald (1989).

* formerly beneficent

There you "do show" what someone else other than you thinks the mark of the beast is.

But you do not include the caveat that Adventists themselves attend church on Sunday for worship services when engaged in things like "Ten days of prayer" and "evangelistic programs" and are on record as saying they do not regard those who go to church on Sunday as having the mark of the beast.

 

[BobRyan]

These things are all related so what is the mark of the beast? As technology advances many new ideas could be possible. Some believe it is a bio computer upgrade that may altar you out of being made in the image of man and by merging with the technology you would be in a state you could not repent from. Others see it as RFID. Some see it as 3 different things a mark or a number or a name. The image of the beast with facial recognition and AI could be something we could not dream of 10 years ago. For sure the worship of the beast is also required along with the number. When we tie this 42 month timeline together we can see that Dan 7 and 9 make sense in relating what Rev 13 omits.

So thank you for giving us some ideas on "what" you think the mark is -

But why would it be a sin in your opinion to have a card/identification that you use to buy and sell ?

2Thess 2
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[fn] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God......He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Thanks for that - certainly a great deception is coming according to 2Thess 2.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

So thank you for giving us some ideas on "what" you think the mark is -

But why would it be a sin in your opinion to have a card/identification that you use to buy and sell ?





Thanks for that - certainly a great deception is coming according to 2Thess 2.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

Hi the changing of your dna and merging you with machine might be a unforgivable sin as when the machine is activated it might have more control than you. The worship of the beast is linked with getting the mark. When the time comes and this is rolled out with lying signs and wonders there is no doubt you are choosing which master you will serve. This is not just a system of finance. If you go back to the garden Adam and Eve were told only one restriction and that was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were warned in that day they do it they will die. Did that tree have magical fruit on it or was it breaking the word of God that brought the experience of sin and the consequence of death with it. We are warned very clearly here about the consequences for taking the mark. We are given a clear timeline of events that it will be clear when it is enforced. We see the world moving towards a one world government and a one world financial system. The technology is here in a number of ways. This will be a choose this day who you will serve moment for all alive in that time.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi the changing of your dna and merging you with machine might be a unforgivable sin

Ok - but that is a far reach for what the text says - an none of John's readers would have come up with that.

The worship of the beast is linked with getting the mark. When the time comes and this is rolled out with lying signs and wonders there is no doubt you are choosing which master you will serve. This is not just a system of finance.

I think that is a key point. Thanks for sharing it.

If you go back to the garden Adam and Eve were told only one restriction and that was not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were warned in that day they do it they will die. Did that tree have magical fruit on it or was it breaking the word of God that brought the experience of sin and the consequence of death with it. We are warned very clearly here about the consequences for taking the mark. We are given a clear timeline of events that it will be clear when it is enforced. We see the world moving towards a one world government and a one world financial system. The technology is here in a number of ways. This will be a choose this day who you will serve moment for all alive in that time.

Agreed but I don't think they will be touting it as "here we have the mark of the beast come and get it".

So then some discernment needed as for the time when governments around the world will be demanding something in regard to worship that the Bible forbids. God will see it as "worship of the beast, his name or his image" but I don't think folks on earth will be advertising it that way.

in Christ,

Bob