WHAT, do you think, is hell?

[Soul Searcher]

Im sorry but I am trying to figure out which bible you use since your claim that the NT speaks more on hell than heaven is not true according to the bible/s I have.

If you are refering to the word hell in contrast to the word heaven, that may be a possibility but then you are ommitting the passages dealing with the kingdom of heaven where the word heaven is not present. That is horrible scholarship and extremely decieving to say the least.

Actually the KJV uses the term hell more than any other version that I am aware of and if you add up every instance of it from cover to cover you will find that Jesus speaks of Heaven more in the Gospel of Matthew alone than hell is mentioned in the entire bible.

For instance hell is used in the KJV 54 times total 23 of which are in the NT many of those repetitions of the same saying by different authors. Heaven appears in Matthew 69 times. Kingdom of Heaven appears 39 times in Matthew alone

Also if you assume that every reference to punishment, condemnation, fire, judgment and hell all mean hell there is still many more direct references to heaven than to this. In fact it is very clearly stated that the message of Jesus was that of the kingdom of heaven. Never is it mentioned that his message was one of hellfire and brimstone.

The phrase "Jesus spoke more of hell than of heaven" is a lie and is often used by the hell fire and brimstone sort to try and make it appear as though thier message has some teeth but the reailty is that it only exposes them as knowing not what they say nor perhaps whom they serve.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Hell is the absense of GOD

If that is the case then hell can not exist since God is everywhere. Also note that the torment in the LOF which many refer to as hell happens in the presence of the lamb and the holy angels not the absence of.

 

[Absolute truth]

JHM,

Although your post above is scientifcly enlightening it is however lacking wholely spiritually. I take this to be a parroting of another author as it does not fit your previous posts regarding format an wording.

I would just ask that you maybe save this sort of "proof" of your opinions for the scientific community since it does not help in matters of the spirit especially regarding the scriptures. One cannot percieve of spitritual things whilst associating them with natural elements. It is the intent of scripture to use natural elements as a means of clarifying spiritual truths and not the other way around.

You asked for scriptural proof because you claim that I have not offered any in regards to my theology, but I find this absurd since the proof is right there in the scriptures I gave along with my notes.

My claims and scriptural proof repeated.

1Cor3:13-15, Rev20:12-15, Luke3:13-15 All prove that Judgment is made according to works alone which determines reward and not eternal suffering. The purpose and outcome is, all that defiles a man will be purged from the man and the man himself shall be saved.

This however is not an instant transformation. It is age lasting (aionion) and not forever and ever as the popular creed claims. If it was forever and ever than how could the man himself be saved as stated in 1Cor3:15?

You see Christ gave His life for the world and His life is not worth one soul less than this. He has purposed it and it is done. Now, all those redeemed (all mankind) are in a carnal sinful state which must be corrected and purified and that is exactly what the fire is used for. The fire is not literal but symbolic of the judgments of Christ and His elect which try and purge the individuals based on his/her judgment ("some will recieve many lashes and some will recieve few lashes"). God has redeemed all but has only elected a few of those all now in this life to be purged through trials and tribulations in preparation for the purpose of ruling and reigning with Christ during the millenial reign (Not an eternal heaven). This is how the elect are rewarded while the rest of mankind remains dead until they are given over to judgment in the lake of fire at which time Christ and His elect judge the nations.

"For when thy judgments are in the earth the world WILL learn righteousness". (Isa 26:9)

Judgements are not for the purpose of tormenting but for trial and purification, just as gold is purified in the fire, all mankind must also be tried in the fire. Through this they are made whole and every knee shall bow and every tonge shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER. Yes, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth albeit not for eternity but "aionion".

I will continue this upon further gathering of scripture to prove that even Sodom and Ghomorah have a promise of restoration. Since there is no sodomite alive today following Gods complete extermination of all their flesh than there is no question that this is the actual people whom were destroyed in Sodom that will be restored in some future time. I will elaborate exhaustively in my followup to this post.

God Bless, Dave

 

[JHM]

Absolute truth, Sorry but absolute false. That was my own work, and I edited out parts of it because it is part of a much larger view re the destruction of Babylon which I will be posting if I feel comfortable here.

 

[Absolute truth]

Absolute truth, Sorry but absolute false. That was my own work, and I edited out parts of it because it is part of a much larger view re the destruction of Babylon which I will be posting if I feel comfortable here.

Hi FHM,

If so I apologize. It was a premature assumption and I am sorry for the error.

As for future posts regarding the science of the earth and your relating to scriptural claims, I came from that years ago and I now view all scripture as spiritual and not literal so its not that I do not appreciate the hard work you have put into your papers. I am just not persuaded in any way that scripture can be interpreted through physical literal interpretation unless it is given from within the confines of scripture itself. Scripture always interprets scripture this is why God commands that we seek 2 or 3 witnesses (of scripture) to interpret any given spiritual truth.

With this said, of course I am nt the only one on this thread so I cannot speak for others so I am sure there are others who share your interpretation and engage in discussion with you.

God Bless, Dave

 

[Ichabod 2]

Hi FHM,

If so I apologize. It was a premature assumption and I am sorry for the error.

As for future posts regarding the science of the earth and your relating to scriptural claims, I came from that years ago and I now view all scripture as spiritual and not literal so its not that I do not appreciate the hard work you have put into your papers. I am just not persuaded in any way that scripture can be interpreted through physical literal interpretation unless it is given from within the confines of scripture itself. Scripture always interprets scripture this is why God commands that we seek 2 or 3 witnesses (of scripture) to interpret any given spiritual truth.

With this said, of course I am nt the only one on this thread so I cannot speak for others so I am sure there are others who share your interpretation and engage in discussion with you.

God Bless, Dave

I agree. Amen.

In fact there are two very different views from scripture; the letter the outer hull and the spirit of the Word. God is a spirit and His Word is Spirit and truth.

 

[&Abel]

I heard this the other day and many here should find it interesting(and creepy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-iqDeIgGKM

"
Zsinj
December 6th, 2003, 04:06 PM

I'm sire you've all heard the story of how a while back, this dude drilled a whole deep into the center of the earth and placed a microphone down there, and allegedly heard horrible, heart-wrenching screams of agony and torture coming from what he thought was to be the depths of hell.
Well, I looked up this story on the internet and there with the story, on the website was an audio file of the alleged recording. I listened to it, and let me tell you, it scared the crap straight outta me! It scared me so much that it probably took yeas off my life just listening to that thing. It sounded real, and I mean REAL!! And when I say real, I don't mean just real, but also unreal, like as if the sounds are coming fromanother dimension! There are screams everywhere, and babbling, and strange murmurs, and someof the voices, allthough very distant sounded like they were actually saying somethiong decipherable, it sounded like something regarding to Jesus or God. I even thought I heard what soundeed like this maniacal laughter in the background. It scared the hell outta me! (No pun intended!)
I don't know if this tape is authentic or not, but since I am a Christian I do believe in Heaven and Hell, and to think that there's billions upon billions of souls down deep in the depths of the earth under our feet in everlasting torment and pain scares the bejeebers out of me!!
Here's the link, listen if you dare, but don't say I didn't warn you, because this will probably scare the living daylights out of you!"

http://www.sffworld.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-7095.html

 

[&Abel]

this one is even better(its less cleaned up but sounds even more "real")

truly frightening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q7d_yJlz3w

 

[LightSeaker]

I didn't know that souls could make sounds.

.

 

[Absolute truth]

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Appears to contradict scripture.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This type of nonsense is just part of that strong delusion. Many would prefer to believe this disgusting lie that there are millions of people screaming and writhing in agony being continually burned in literal flames of fire. Then they are, according to Orthdoxy, raised to judgement to be sentenced to a further eternity of agony such as they have already been experiencing.

Typically it is nothing more than further evidence of the sick and twisted thoughts of the carnal mind.

How could scripture be accepted over this so called proof of suffering souls in hell? Scripture seems to hold no weight against such physical evidence such as this. How could this be anything other than truth?

Please.....And theology seems to always take pecedence over scripture as well since God could not send a strong delusion or a lieing spirit to decieve man or actually send the holy spirit to lead Christ to be tempted of the Devil since God does not do such things according to common theology. Again.....Please.

Im sorry but this absolutely sickens me that this display of barbaric intellect has even been posted on this forum and what sickens me the most is that most actually believe that God has reserved such a place for the world whom He loved so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for. It speaks nothing good about the character of God, His omniscience, almighty, power and Godhead and the biggest part of all..........His Love, mercy and kindness.

How about people just look to the scriptures for the truth of this? "THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING AND THE MEMORY OF THEM IS FORGOTTEN"



May God bless such minds and heal them, Dave

 

[&Abel]

2 Esdras

[15] "I said before, and I say now, and will say it again: there are more who perish than those who will be saved,
[16] as a wave is greater than a drop of water."
[17] He answered me and said, "As is the field, so is the seed; and as are the flowers, so are the colors; and as is the work, so is the product; and as is the farmer, so is the threshing floor.
[18] For there was a time in this age when I was preparing for those who now exist, before the world was made for them to dwell in, and no one opposed me then, for no one existed;
[19] but now those who have been created in this world which is supplied both with an unfailing table and an inexhaustible pasture, have become corrupt in their ways.
[20] So I considered my world, and behold, it was lost, and my earth, and behold, it was in peril because of the devices of those who had come into it.
[21] And I saw and spared some with great difficulty, and saved for myself one grape out of a cluster, and one plant out of a great forest.
[22] So let the multitude perish which has been born in vain, but let my grape and my plant be saved, because with much labor I have perfected them.

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm

 

[Absolute truth]

2 Esdras

[15] "I said before, and I say now, and will say it again: there are more who perish than those who will be saved,
[16] as a wave is greater than a drop of water."
[17] He answered me and said, "As is the field, so is the seed; and as are the flowers, so are the colors; and as is the work, so is the product; and as is the farmer, so is the threshing floor.
[18] For there was a time in this age when I was preparing for those who now exist, before the world was made for them to dwell in, and no one opposed me then, for no one existed;
[19] but now those who have been created in this world which is supplied both with an unfailing table and an inexhaustible pasture, have become corrupt in their ways.
[20] So I considered my world, and behold, it was lost, and my earth, and behold, it was in peril because of the devices of those who had come into it.
[21] And I saw and spared some with great difficulty, and saved for myself one grape out of a cluster, and one plant out of a great forest.
[22] So let the multitude perish which has been born in vain, but let my grape and my plant be saved, because with much labor I have perfected them.

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm

Hi, &Abel,

In continuing your quote here please note that God compares and relates the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah with this people whom He is speaking of here (Assyria).



Sodom and Gomorrah and Jerusalem both have a promise of restoration in a future time.
As concerning Sodom and Gomorrah they were physically destroyed with a literal fire which wiped them clean from the earth causing them to parish yet we read of their future restoration to their former estate in Eze 16:46-61.

God tells Jerusalem that they have done more abominable than Her sisters Sodom and Samaria and the judgment of Jerusalem shall be a comfort to Sodom. Jerusalem will be ashamed of her iniquity.

Now, Since Sodom and Gomorrah and Samaria apparently were perished as you have quoted above. You have used the word parish to establish your belief that to parish means to be eternally seperated from God and tormented forever yet, we see here that to parish is not as you have concluded. Sodom and Samaria both have a promise of restoration which is the cause of Jerusalems shame.

Therefore Your reasoning and those who hold to the claim that to parish is to be eternally sperated from God in a literal eternal place of torment burning endlessly is nothing but scriptural misconception and a false character witness of our Father.

As for how many will be saved, this is concerning this age and the next but all shall be saved. Infact the word saved is nothing more than "healed", healing". The lost will not be healed (saved) in this age and some not even in the next age but ultimately they shall be saved and restored just as Sodom and Gomorrah.

God Bless, Dave.

 

[Soul Searcher]

The sounds of hell thing is a total hoax btw but then I imagine most of us already know that.

 

[Absolute truth]

The sounds of hell thing is a total hoax btw but then I imagine most of us already know that.

Hi Soul Searcher,

Sadly and unfortunately most do not and actually believe it. If not admitting to the authenticity of the film they admit it through their theology which teaches such a blasphemous portrayal of our very competent Savior.

God Bless, Dave

 

[Soul Searcher]

Sad indeed.

 

[&Abel]

The sounds of hell thing is a total hoax btw but then I imagine most of us already know that.

evidence? sounds pretty real to me

 

[&Abel]

sheol is also spiritually connected to the earth so it is not unbiblical or impossible for God to allow a snippet of the reality of hell to be captured(the microphone eventually was consumed by heat)

 

[&Abel]

these were researchers apparently(I don't know what they were looking for) but they abandoned the project after hearing what they heard

 

[&Abel]

thats not even hell, hell

thats basically the waiting room of hell

true hell is the lake of fire which will apparently be far worse

life is no joke

 

[&Abel]

1 Enoch

8. The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' [SIZE=-2]9.[/SIZE] And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make [SIZE=-1](for)[/SIZE] the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of water. [SIZE=-2]10.[/SIZE] And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime. [SIZE=-2]11.[/SIZE] Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. [SIZE=-2]12.[/SIZE] And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners. [SIZE=-2]13.[/SIZE] Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence.' [SIZE=-2]14.[/SIZE] The I blessed the Lord of glory and said: 'Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever.'

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/enoch.htm