WHAT, do you think, is hell?

[Absolute truth]

sometimes hell is used as well which adds to the confusion

but true hell as we know it is "the lake of fire"

and no one is there yet, just as no one is in heaven yet besides a few choice men God decided to take up

Hi &Abel,

Actually the lake of fire is where all will learn and be corrected. It is through judgement that God teaches. We learn from our mistakes, when ashamed we do our best to avoid that which has made us ashamed.

In the Lake of fire all sins are exposed of all and it is in this judgement that mankind will learn righteousness. You have read in scripture that our consciences will judge us. Well, in that we are ashamed and turn from unrighteousness and learn righteousness.

The only thing burned in this lake as scripture clearly states and I have shown you is the works of the man. First of all that which defiles us (carnal mind and nature) is burned then our works are judged and burned then the man himself is made whole kneeling at the feet of Christ (every knee shall bow and every tonge shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER).

I have given you more than enough scripture to prove this perception but it is apparently obvious that you will not consider it as you are sure that you have the truth.

I am not trying to be rude and I mean you no disrespect. Infact I respect your position and as God commands........

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


I pray God opens your heart to recieve His truth and His power and Godhead which are hand in hand with His love mercy and kindness.

God Bless, Dave

 

[&Abel]

Hi &Abel,

Actually the lake of fire is where all will learn and be corrected. It is through judgement that God teaches. We learn from our mistakes, when ashamed we do our best to avoid that which has made us ashamed.

In the Lake of fire all sins are exposed of all and it is in this judgement that mankind will learn righteousness. You have read in scripture that our consciences will judge us. Well, in that we are ashamed and turn from unrighteousness and learn righteousness.

The only thing burned in this lake as scripture clearly states and I have shown you is the works of the man. First of all that which defiles us (carnal mind and nature) is burned then our works are judged and burned then the man himself is made whole kneeling at the feet of Christ (every knee shall bow and every tonge shall confess that Jesus is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER).

I have given you more than enough scripture to prove this perception but it is apparently obvious that you will not consider it as you are sure that you have the truth.

I am not trying to be rude and I mean you no disrespect. Infact I respect your position and as God commands........

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


I pray God opens your heart to recieve His truth and His power and Godhead which are hand in hand with His love mercy and kindness.

God Bless, Dave

now we've stepped away from the truth of scripture and passed into what you'd "like to be true"

 

[&Abel]

if you'd like to convince me how bout making a post consisting of mostly scripture and very little of your own opinion

compile it together and present your case in as few of your own words as possible

just a friendly suggestion(would make it far easier to get an idea of where your coming from)

I don't have the patience to sift through personal opinion

this is why I usually just post the scripture with highlights

I think it speaks for itself

 

[Absolute truth]

now we've stepped away from the truth of scripture and passed into what you'd "like to be true"

Hi &Abel,

With all due respect, this has been your stand the whole time and it is evident in your quick denials of any scriptural proof even with 100's of passages given in support of universal redemption. My concern with continueing in this discussion is that you are truly not looking to the scriptures for your theology. Instead, your theology is constantly judging every bit of proof I have shown you.

I will leave a long post which carries alot of scripture for you to examine yet within minutes you have replied to the post. This I feel makes for one way discussions that never result in conclusions. I am merely stating that you have not been thorough when examining my posts and therefore I am simply not content in one way discussions.

As I said, I will leave you in this thread with Soul searcher to discuss these things with you. For now I have a thread I will be starting and have to prepare for it over the next few days.

I wish you all blessing in your walk.

God Bless, Dave

 

[Absolute truth]

if you'd like to convince me how bout making a post consisting of mostly scripture and very little of your own opinion

compile it together and present your case in as few of your own words as possible

just a friendly suggestion(would make it far easier to get an idea of where your coming from)

I don't have the patience to sift through personal opinion

this is why I usually just post the scripture with highlights

I think it speaks for itself

Hi &Abel,

For me to do this I would have to use up about 10 seperate posts to get them to fit.

I have offered enough to cause you to see a problem with the doctrine of eternal punishment but you insist there is no problem with it. So, even if I gave you every scripture which deals with it I find it an impossible task to get you to read it thoroughly.

Again, I mean no disrespect I just believe that it is not for you at this time, or quite possibly I am not the one through whom God will give it to you.

If you would seriously at some future time desire to know exactly where I am coming from and have alot of time to examine all the scriptural proof I would point you to http://www.bible-truths.com. This site has a huge, and I mean huge study on the lake of fire as well as other studies. There are thousands of pages on this very subject all fully catagorized in several papers all written using all of scripture and the perfect conclusion is drawn out slowly with the reader.It is quite exhaustive but easy to follow and if you do decide to give it and your walk the time I pray that you recieve the patience to begin that study.

Another book which is a little harder reading due to the time it was written is "Christ Triumphant by Thomas Alin". There is a Catholic overtone but the proof of Universal salvation is undeniable.

Either way, I truly have no ill towards you and I hope the best for you and your walk.

God Bless, Dave

 

[&Abel]

unless you start presenting scripture "mostly" I'm not reading your posts anymore, sorry

 

[Benoni]

The problem with the word hell is it simple speaks of the place of the dead; just by looking a little closer at God’s Word this can be proven. Most eternalhellist ignore many verses in God’s Word while at the same time the verses they quote can be easily explained by in a total different light if they would just open their spiritual eyes.

Example the word damnation can also mean judgment (God is a just God) and also can be translated probation; that they do not want to hear.

Take the word punishment; it means to prune , chastise but these facts are ignored by these prophets of doom and gloom.

MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible
Actually there are four words mistranslated hell and this still does not make the word hell anything but PAGAN; look at the original language. I love how God’s people embrace such an evil word. The word hell is not in the Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word


There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.


Tar-ta-rus(tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave


Look a little closer at Gehenna:
Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.

Matthew 5:22​

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

​

Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.



The Lake of Fire is and brimstone is symbolic and spiritual because it is only written of in the Book of Revelation which can be easily proven by God’s Word.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Something to keep in mind regaurding the words Sheol Hades and Hell.

When the text was recorded in Greek Hades would have been the Greek word for Sheol, or the closest to it. Unfortunately the term hades implies several other things from Greek myth that would not have been associated with Sheol.

Likewise the anglo word hel would have been a reasonable translation of Sheol and especially of Hades. It too carries additional implications that were not present in either of the others.

The word hell as it is known today does not even come close to resembling the word that was written in scriptures and many who believe in this eternal hell will swear that it means the Lake Of Fire even though no bible ever makes such a translation.

Ironically hel was not hot at all but was freezing cold instead. How they get hell=lake of fire is an curious thing.

 

[Absolute truth]

Something to keep in mind regaurding the words Sheol Hades and Hell.

When the text was recorded in Greek Hades would have been the Greek word for Sheol, or the closest to it. Unfortunately the term hades implies several other things from Greek myth that would not have been associated with Sheol.

Likewise the anglo word hel would have been a reasonable translation of Sheol and especially of Hades. It too carries additional implications that were not present in either of the others.

The word hell as it is known today does not even come close to resembling the word that was written in scriptures and many who believe in this eternal hell will swear that it means the Lake Of Fire even though no bible ever makes such a translation.

Ironically hel was not hot at all but was freezing cold instead. How they get hell=lake of fire is an curious thing.

Hi Soul Searcher,

I agree.

In my studies I found the exact same facts. At the time of translation the word hades was as good as any word for the translation but over time the definition of the word hell took on a greater meaning than its original definition. Until even 400 years ago dictionaries used the definitions "impercievable, unseen". Now they went all out with abode of the damned etc, etc,etc.

Its unreal just how blind you have to be to seriously entertain such bizzarre lies and form a whole religion out of them and then proclaim it as a truth even in light of clear opposing proof. Sometimes I have to throw my hands up in despair to God to give me patience and strength to continue sharing the truth since the positive reaction to it is either nil or few and far between. That is His will and so be it until He accomplishes what He has set out to accomplish.

Anyways good posts you guys and God bless,

Dave

 

[LightSeaker]

Benoni, Soul_Searcher and Absolute truth, I thank you. Good Stuff in this thread.

 

[Lee McBride]

Why do so many people automatically assume that sinful man will exist forever and therefore suffer for all eternity in hell? Please see Genesis 3:22-24. From this passage of scripture it is clear that after man sinned, God did what he could to make sure that sinful man would not live forever by eating of the Tree of Life. Indeed, God even placed the mighty cherubim and a flaming sword to prevent this from happening. It is only through Christ that man can receive eternal life. (“For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” -Romans 6:23). Those who die without Jesus as their Savior will ultimately be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire where they will be destroyed and cease to exist (this is the second death – see Revelation 20:14). On the other hand, and this may be where the confusion enters in, the Devil (that old serpent) and his angels (for which the Lake of Fire was originally prepared) at one time (before their fall from grace) probably did eat of the Tree of Life and will therefore exist forever. Because of their grave sin – having at one time existed in absolute perfection in the very presence of God Himself (see Ezekiel 28), will be separated from God in this same Lake of Fire. There they will consciously endure God’s wrath forevermore. Even the demons (fallen angels) themselves know this time is coming – see Matthew 8:29.

 

[Rajni]

Those who die without Jesus as their Savior will ultimately be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire where they will be destroyed and cease to exist (this is the second death – see Revelation 20:14).

Since Jesus is the Savior of the whole world to begin with, how is it that anyone can die (or do anything else, for that matter) without Him as their Savior?


.

 

[Tavita]

Just What the Hell is "Hell?"

By Gary Amirault

There once was a time, 'twas plain to see
Just what the hell, Hell was meant to be.
But then theologians got into the act
And Hell no longer was a simple fact.


Hell formerly was a dark hidden space
Imperceivable, covered, a true hiding place.
It could be a place, as crude as a shed
Or could be a helmet, to cover your head.

Smoochers and kissers oft needed a hell
For hidden in darkness, no one could tell.
Hall, hole, and hull come from the same root
Along with a heel covered with a boot.

"Too simple!" So theologians once said
And now from their scheming, confusion has spread.
They hired the Dantes and Michaelangelos
To paint pretty pictures of many great woes


Fire and torment, with much superstition
Was added to pagan mythology and fiction.
The Goddess of Hel from Norse mythology
Became Satan, hero of most eschatology.

Jesus the Savior, delivered mankind
He came not for few, but for ALL men to find.
His portion became a rather small lot
While most of mankind, in Hell-fire would rot.

The way to this Hell became broad and wide
The gift of God's grace was at its low tide.
Clothes, creeds and days, the right denomination
Became the sole means, the way to salvation.

Gehenna, Hades, Tartaroo, and Sheol
All became places that could swallow your soul.
Preachers now had us, right where they wanted
"Obey or to Hell with you" they often taunted.

Countless denominations of devilish preachers
Forsook the Gift and became Satan's teachers.
Thousands of ways of deliverance from "Hell"
In common they all have a self-righteous smell.

"Finished" He cried, "I will draw all mankind"
The Father's desire, "all saved" in His mind.
The task He was given, He accomplished it all
And as His witness, He commissioned St. Paul.

Paul's Gospel was different, it's easy to tell
Because never once did he use the word "hell."
So "hell" is no more, it's becoming a bore
It's taking its place along with common folklore.

Punish he will, for our Father is just
In age-long correction, you surely can trust.
On vindictive torment our Father's not bent
Mercy will, yes! triumph over judgment. ​

 

[Rajni]

Just What the Hell is "Hell?"

By Gary Amirault

There once was a time, 'twas plain to see
Just what the hell, Hell was meant to be.
But then theologians got into the act
And Hell no longer was a simple fact.


Hell formerly was a dark hidden space
Imperceivable, covered, a true hiding place.
It could be a place, as crude as a shed
Or could be a helmet, to cover your head.

Smoochers and kissers oft needed a hell
For hidden in darkness, no one could tell.
Hall, hole, and hull come from the same root
Along with a heel covered with a boot.

"Too simple!" So theologians once said
And now from their scheming, confusion has spread.
They hired the Dantes and Michaelangelos
To paint pretty pictures of many great woes


Fire and torment, with much superstition
Was added to pagan mythology and fiction.
The Goddess of Hel from Norse mythology
Became Satan, hero of most eschatology.

Jesus the Savior, delivered mankind
He came not for few, but for ALL men to find.
His portion became a rather small lot
While most of mankind, in Hell-fire would rot.

The way to this Hell became broad and wide
The gift of God's grace was at its low tide.
Clothes, creeds and days, the right denomination
Became the sole means, the way to salvation.

Gehenna, Hades, Tartaroo, and Sheol
All became places that could swallow your soul.
Preachers now had us, right where they wanted
"Obey or to Hell with you" they often taunted.

Countless denominations of devilish preachers
Forsook the Gift and became Satan's teachers.
Thousands of ways of deliverance from "Hell"
In common they all have a self-righteous smell.

"Finished" He cried, "I will draw all mankind"
The Father's desire, "all saved" in His mind.
The task He was given, He accomplished it all
And as His witness, He commissioned St. Paul.

Paul's Gospel was different, it's easy to tell
Because never once did he use the word "hell."
So "hell" is no more, it's becoming a bore
It's taking its place along with common folklore.

Punish he will, for our Father is just
In age-long correction, you surely can trust.
On vindictive torment our Father's not bent
Mercy will, yes! triumph over judgment. ​

 

[Absolute truth]

LOL I love it. Very cute and to the point.

God Bless, Dave