What do you think about Homeschool?

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I red a lot about it recently. This is not very well-known in Europe, so I wanted to know a bit more about that. It seems quite dangerous to me: how a child is supposed to integrate into his own society if he doesn't even attend a school with very different people? To me this isn't good for a child to grow up in a cocoon. Moreover we learn sociability in our first years. And every child needs friendship and to be confronted to someone else's eyes.

So basically I would like to learn the advantages of such a schooling and the reasons why it is so popular in America!

I've known home-schoolers who've flourished and ones who've floundered. For some it has enabled them to cultivate their potential and build a launchpad for academic, professional, and personal success, to travel around the world literally and in the process broaden their philosophical worldview, though they are the exception. For others homeschooling has been an impediment to personal and educational growth, thwarting their ability to attain valuable knowledge from sources others than the ones their parents have selected for them, and to interact with teachers and peers outside of their hermetic environments in a meaningful way. Whether it's a proverbial bubble or a cage, I think such limitations are detrimental in every respect. Some are gratified with their experience and grateful for it; others achingly regret choosing that path or are resentful of being deprived of a choice and forced onto it. I believe what's most vital is that the decision as to whether to home-school is tailored to the individual needs and ambitions of each child in the family rather than forcing a one-size-fits-all approach, and that after the age of 13 or thereabouts he or she is the one who ultimately makes it rather than the parents. Where you live and what your future ambitions are also significantly influence the experiences and outcomes of home-schooling. Some countries have far more wholesome regulations on home-schooling that help to limit the risks of abuse or neglect in any sense - not just physically, but educationally - then others. In some areas there's many more opportunities for home-schooled students to routinely participate in extracurriculars, which are important not just socially but also in cultivating talents and interests, and learning how to manage your time efficiently.

My college admissions office asks home-schooled applicants to explain:
.how and why their family chose home schooling
.how their learning process was organized
.what benefits accrued
.what, if any, choices you had to make to accomplish this type of education

I think the answers to these questions profoundly shape whether home-schooling will have more benefits or detriments to the individual. They also require home-schooled applicants to submit the same intensive application; standardized test scores; and three letters of recommendations. Many colleges in the United States also require home-schooled applicants to take additional standardized tests, the SAT Subject Tests or AP exams, so there is a standard metric for evaluation. It's really important for anyone considering home-schooling during the high school years to look at the application process for the colleges they are interested in early on, and prepare accordingly. Some of the textbooks favored in homeschooling curriculums are not accepted by major universities in the United States because they are inadequate and manipulative in how they teach the subjects, revising history to fit a preferred narrative or teaching pseudoscience.
In contrast, a college in Canada a home-schooled woman told me about has a 90% acceptance rate and literally only requires you to submit a basic application and transcript; that's it, no writing samples of your work, test scores, or instructor evaluations required. They reject so few students they are able to write letters to each one who is denied admission explaining the reasons to give them the chance to make changes and apply again.

Though home-schooling is a rarity in France, my most successful home-schooled friend is French! She didn't opt to home-school for the most common reasons Americans do, though, and there's very important distinctions between home-schooling there and in the United States. She's an exceptionally talented dancer and landed her first professional job at the age of ten; home-schooling enabled her to have flexibility with her schedule to train and pursue opportunities. Her parents did not design her curriculum, though they were able to personalize it, and they did not evaluate her school work. She explained how in France there are regulations in place to better ensure that every student being home-schooled is properly accounted for, that they are in a safe and productive environment (there are home inspections), and receiving an adequate education in a breadth of subjects so they aren't academically deprived or impaired. She was enrolled in a structured, rigorous correspondence program that entailed regular interaction with her teachers - just via Skype or email rather than in person; had regular tests and took a national exam annually; and submitted research papers and projects. There is far less oversight for home-schooling in the United States and Canada than in France. This can tragically lead to kids being abused and exploited since they aren't having regular interaction with teachers who are mandated reporters of such abuse.

Another friend bitterly regrets home-schooling. She's an American who moved to England when she was 15, and was intimidated at the prospect of adjusting to a new school system in the middle of her high school education. Her mom always has a fulfilling job when they lived in the United States, but wasn't working there, so she decided to home-school her instead. They do have memories they cherish, but also feel that they missed out on other memories they could have collected. She still had friends from going to church but had a far less full life than she would have if she'd attended school. England actually does have more regulations on home-schooling, but give more flexibility to foreigners living there temporarily. She applied to 11 colleges in America and was outright rejected by 9 of them and wait-listed by two. She applied to the college in Canada I referenced above that is extremely friendly to home-schoolers, and has a non-competitive admissions process, and was accepted and offered a full scholarship there. She ultimately decided not to attend after visiting the very isolated and uninvitingly cold area the college is located in, and is instead taking online classes this year with the hope of applying to competitive colleges again in the spring.

Another friend had home-schooling forced upon her, despite her persistent pleas and frustrations because she knew how limiting it was for her. We met when she was in her 20s and I was in between the 11th and 12th grades in a summer biology course at a local college. It took her four years to be able to make it to the point where she could be in the class. Her family are fundamentalists, rigidity believing in a narrow worldview and forcing her to fit into it like the square peg in the round hole. At 18 she moved in with an aunt who helped to pay for her to attend a community college where she began to fix the deficiencies in her education. She had to take numerous remedial classes that did not earn her any credit because she did not pass proficiency tests to immediately commence the required studies.

Eta:
I spent two weeks volunteering with a medical organization in Florida following the catastrophic hurricane that destroyed schools and homes, and had a conversation while there with a mom who home-schooled her children. I was not giving medical care but helped to organize with mobile pharmacies to provide crucial vaccinations and other care, and entertained the crowds while they waited. A mom was getting her children vaccinated and explained she always intended to, but since she was home-schooling them and therefore did not have to submit vaccination records, she was able to keep procrastinating. She was terrified because they were in a tinderbox of communicable diseases. 95% of the town was entirely destroyed, so the residents were crammed into shelters. I made a comment about how I hoped a silver lining of home-schooling was that the kids could continue their education with less interruptions since the local schools were closed for a full month. She said the opposite was true, that it made the ordeal all the more difficult. Their home was severely damaged, and they weren't expected to have power and internet restored until January. She was enrolling the kids in school and hoping the additional challenge of having to make that adjustment wouldn't be too hard for them. She also realized that her kids had been socially cocooned of sorts, only having friends from their church and immediate neighborhood, so there was less social structure in place for them when everything collapsed.

Eta 2:
Haha, you can tell that I had some time on my hands when I wrote this lengthy post. I was trying to be productive while waiting at Border Control.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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@keith99 wrote:

"I have found that having a 'high' grading scale does not indicate a difficult class. Quite the opposite. It as often as not means the test is a mere regurgitation of facts or in math the completion of comparatively simple problems where all one needs to do is turn the crank. I recall tests where being in the 60s was a solid A. But I also recall getting back the results of one such test and having the Professor when presenting the 'right' answers told us that for one of the problems he was giving us what he thought the right answer was and if any of us had something different that we thought was correct to please see him after class and explain it so he could give more points on that question.

I've also had classes where the time element was so significant that even I did not finish and I was very fast. One calculus test I took had 5 questions and we were to do 4 out of 5 questions and if any of had extra time we could do the 5th for extra credit. The instructor doubted any of would have the time for that. I did all 5, double checked everything and had time left over. Yet that other test I did not finish."

My older cousin enjoys the playful teasing she's given about how when she was little she was momentarily devastated because she believed she'd been severely shortchanged when making a purchase in Italy using lira and getting change back in Euros. This was in 2002 when many stores in the EU were still accepting the obsolete currencies but only giving change in Euros, and though I think the honest ones were fair with the currency exchange, to a small child fixated just on the numbers it seemed otherwise. The conversion rate was like 2000 lire = 1 Euro. She had several thousand bills of lira and only got back a little change. Similarly, you can have a wildly distorted perception about the standards of grading and the degree of difficulty for courses if you use the scale you're accustomed to in weighing them, and that differs from the scale actually used.

The admissions offices of universities that attract students from around the world are skilled in fairly converting and evaluating grades rather than just looking at the numbers and course titles on transcripts. Most know that a 65 in Ontario, Canada likely differs from a 65 in Ontario, California, and assess the grade accordingly. Even those in the US who primarily have in-state applicants are cognizant of the fact that schools can use variations of the standard 4.0 American grading scale, with some offering weighted grades for more demanding classes, and using different numerical grids.
For this reason many universities require applicants to have a counselor or administrator at their school submit a form as part of the application process in which the school's grading methodology is explained. They are asked to explain the level of rigor of the classes on the applicant's transcript and evaluate his or her academic performance in context.

I applied to a university in England and found the process to be challenging but far more more straightforward. The bar was set incredibly high, but it was also so clearly marked you knew how to aim for it. American applicants needed to have a GPA that was high, and they converted grades to a standard scale. What was most crucial were high scores on SAT Subject Tests and / or AP exams. There was a simplicity to it in that a uniform process was used for scoring the tests and exams. You also needed to submit academic work, but by far the test scores were the most important. If only numerical grades were considered American applicants would have appeared to be extraordinary, vastly superior in comparison to applicants from England, Canada, and other parts of the world. And my cousins in England who applied to American schools would have been viewed as inferior, because what is the highest grade for them 70%+ is a D for us.

Home-schooled applicants to competitive colleges are often asked to provide details about the textbooks and other learning material used, and to explain how grades were determined. I'm mainly writing this post because I'm bored waiting in traffic but in the event anyone actually reads this, ha, I'd recommend that homeschoolers thoroughly research the textbooks they are considering. Textbooks by two publishers that are popular with fundamentalist Christian schools and home-schoolers, Beka and Bob Jones University Press, were deemed inadequate preparation for college by the University of California (UCLA, Berkeley, UCSD; all of their campuses) back in the 2000s. There was a lawsuit filed against UC for "viewpoint discrimination", but the university won it and subsequent appeals by demonstrating that it wasn't a matter of viewpoint differences, but of deficient education in history, science, and government. Kids who were taught with these textbooks are not rejected outright, but are required to take additional, remedial courses. I learned about this suit during the summer between the 11th and 12th grades when I befriended a girl in her 20s who was taking the same biology class at UCLA. She had been home-schooled in a hermetic fundamentalist sect in central California using those textbooks and this correspondence program with a Christian school in Florida. When she moved in with an aunt at 18 and enrolled at a community college she had to take proficiency tests, and her low scores required her to take remedial courses before she could take the required ones. The remedial courses are not free, and they also cost a lot of time. She was not embittered about this, and realized while taking the courses that they were entirely necessary.
 
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Good posts, Ella!

I've always wondered about how grades work for homeschooled kids. Just how objective it is when it's the parents doing all the teaching & the grading. Makes sense that for college admissions they want to know more about grading, textbooks used, on account of that. Definitely makes sense that homeschooled kids should be required to take more standardized tests to get into a good college. Unless they went to an online school where they had real teachers, real grading, not just mommy grading everything.
 
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Good posts, Ella!

I've always wondered about how grades work for homeschooled kids. Just how objective it is when it's the parents doing all the teaching & the grading. Makes sense that for college admissions they want to know more about grading, textbooks used, on account of that. Definitely makes sense that homeschooled kids should be required to take more standardized tests to get into a good college. Unless they went to an online school where they had real teachers, real grading, not just mommy grading everything.

Some universities, especially those with high acceptance rates and a relaxed application process, are far more receptive to home-schooled applicants than ones with competitive admission. As I discussed in a post above, a home-schooled friend of mine was despondent after being rejected by all of the eleven universities in the United States she devoted considerable time and energy to applying to, laboring over the applications and ensuring she'd put in her best efforts. She was denied admission to nine of them outright, and then crushed even more after the two who wait-listed her held hope above her head and then took it away when they too did not admit her. She was also rejected by two universities in England, where she resided at the time. I recommended a university in New Brunswick, Canada I'd actually learned about from a home-schooled woman, specifically because they have a "holistic" application process and are very welcoming to home-schooled applicants. It is a relatively respectable college, but perhaps due to its isolated and inhospitably cold location does not attract very many applicants, and has a remarkably high acceptance rate. They actually reject so few applicants they are able to send personalized letters to each one detailing why the candidate was not admitted and giving him or her the opportunity to take corrective action and apply again. Their admit rate is the inverse of many elite universities; around 90% admitted rather than denied. It has rolling admissions, which enabled her to apply only a couple of months before the school year began. Unlike all the universities in the US and England she applied to, this university does not require any standardized tests, letters of recommendation, essays, or examples of academic work. It's a very basic application. She was not required to provide any details about the rigor or content of her education, with the transcript her mom made for her being deemed sufficient. The only standardized assessment she completed was one for music, that was very basic and completed online. They enthusiastically admitted her and offered her a full scholarship, but after actually visiting the school she decided to instead wait to hear from the two schools that had wait-listed her (she didn't find out until December that they had, and the school year began in August). She is now enrolled in a rigorous online high school so she will have an official transcript and will not be considered a home-school applicant, and has been taking SAT and ACT prep classes. She will soon be submitting her applications to elite colleges in the US and UK again.
 
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Some universities, especially those with high acceptance rates and a relaxed application process, are far more receptive to home-schooled applicants than ones with competitive admission. As I discussed in a post above, a home-schooled friend of mine was despondent after being rejected by all of the eleven universities in the United States she devoted considerable time and energy to applying to, laboring over the applications and ensuring she'd put in her best efforts. She was denied admission to nine of them outright, and then crushed even more after the two who wait-listed her held hope above her head and then took it away when they too did not admit her. She was also rejected by two universities in England, where she resided at the time. I recommended a university in New Brunswick, Canada I'd actually learned about from a home-schooled woman, specifically because they have a "holistic" application process and are very welcoming to home-schooled applicants. It is a relatively respectable college, but perhaps due to its isolated and inhospitably cold location does not attract very many applicants, and has a remarkably high acceptance rate. They actually reject so few applicants they are able to send personalized letters to each one detailing why the candidate was not admitted and giving him or her the opportunity to take corrective action and apply again. Their admit rate is the inverse of many elite universities; around 90% admitted rather than denied. It has rolling admissions, which enabled her to apply only a couple of months before the school year began. Unlike all the universities in the US and England she applied to, this university does not require any standardized tests, letters of recommendation, essays, or examples of academic work. It's a very basic application. She was not required to provide any details about the rigor or content of her education, with the transcript her mom made for her being deemed sufficient. The only standardized assessment she completed was one for music, that was very basic and completed online. They enthusiastically admitted her and offered her a full scholarship, but after actually visiting the school she decided to instead wait to hear from the two schools that had wait-listed her (she didn't find out until December that they had, and the school year began in August). She is now enrolled in a rigorous online high school so she will have an official transcript and will not be considered a home-school applicant, and has been taking SAT and ACT prep classes. She will soon be submitting her applications to elite colleges in the US and UK again.

I feel mighty sorry for your friend. That would be so rough getting rejected by so many schools. So much money down the drain to boot on account of how she'd have had to pay about $100, maybe more than that, for each application. To pay that much money, get shot down 11 times, that would be hard for sure.

I never had a reason to pay much attention to what it's like for homeschoolers to apply to college. I knew a few who were homeschooled when I was a kid, basically they weren't getting any schooling at all. It was a way of getting around child labor laws, putting them to work out in the fields instead of having them at school. I did check on it to see what folks who were homeschooled have to do to apply to my college. They need to take SAT Subject Tests or AP / IB test scores, same as what you said a lot of colleges do. We're not near as competitive as Stanford, mind you, but we're pretty dang competitive. It's a lot harder to get into some majors than others, so you've got a 2 step process. We're higher ranked with my major than Stanford, lol. I can't see too many homeschooled kids getting into my major, on account of the level of math & science prep required. Unless they were the rare genius types. Still can't believe they took me, lol.
 
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---Staff Edit---

Well, the University of California is one of the best in the world. It's hard as heck to get into any of their schools. Once in, they require everybody to take a bunch of hard classes. On account of that, it's not in the least bit surprising to me they'd have much higher standards than what you & other homeschooled kids using those textbooks are used to. What science courses are y'all required to take at your college?

Now I'm sorry if this comes across as rude but I just can't find a polite way of putting it. If you used those textbooks for your science education, it's no surprise to me they're deemed inadequate for a top college like the UC schools. The posts of yours that made me think this haven't got anything to do with "differences in worldview" so that's not the only real big, obvious problem. Your posts showed you lacked basic knowledge about things re science folks who got into college surely ought to know, on topics you claimed to care about, vaccines. On things that aren't matters of opinion, but facts like genotyping. I'd see you give the winner rating to posts made by folks - suspiciously ones that all joined from Canada at the same time & had the same bend as you, lol - when they put down links to science studies. Now the science studies were genuine. The problem wasn't with them, it was with the understanding y'all failed to have of them. The titles would give an argument that sounded like it said what you wanted it to say. If any of y'all had read what the studies actually said, understood it, you'd have known you scored points against yourselves, lol. It showed the exact opposite of what y'all said it did. Then I remember how you posted a source yourself, one that finally was real & not from the bus driver of a documentary crew. It was the same source Stanfordella here had already posted to show you were in error, but you were using it anyhow, to try to prove your own point again. Once again, if you'd read it for yourself, you'd have understood that plain as day. Made me suspect that you'd been taught to just believe about science whatever it is you want to believe, without any regards to scientific inquiry. So yes, it sounds like UC is wise.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Cimorene is no longer active here but she told me that it is OK to say which online school she went to. It is Stanford Online High School. My understanding is that it is mainly real classes connected through the video on most computers. So one still has the commitment to be there on time, just that there is in front of your computer instead of in a building on campus.

As you're aware but many others here are not, Cimorene and I befriended one another while we were both enrolled at Stanford OHS, so I'm able to provide a bit of insight on how it's structured and why it's an appealing choice. The school enables students to attend full-time as Cimorene did, or part, taking supplemental courses while pursuing a diploma at another institution, which is how I and my brothers were enrolled. My older brother began taking classes at Stanford OHS when he was in the 9th grade and had already surpassed the highest level math and computer science classes available at his K-12 private school. It was imperative for him to remain at his school where he was a dedicated athlete who went on to be recruited by colleges, but also for him to be able to flourish intellectually. That school and Stanford OHS are a part of the Malone Family Foundation consortium of schools that focus on providing suitably challenging education for gifted kids. He seamlessly weaved the online and traditional classes into a gratifying curriculum with a schedule that could fit everything in and still allow for a happy social life, and my little brother and I were able to follow suit. I'm not the serious athlete they are, but am a competitive dancer and needed to be able to fit in 30 hours a week of training with school. I also wanted a classic high school experience, and I definitely got one. Cimorene also had an enjoyable and fulfilling experience as a full-time student, attending prom, retreats, and graduation.

Since Stanford OHS draws in students from time zones around the world, it is formatted a little differently than public online schools where the majority of students live within the state. They use a "flipped classroom model." To me it's like a hybrid between a typical high school class and an undergraduate seminar where there are hundreds of students enrolled in a course taught in a large lecture hall, but then students meet in smaller classrooms to engage in the material more in depth. Teachers record lectures and post reading assignments and other materials online, and students watch them and complete the preliminary work at their own discretion. The perk of this is that you can pause the seminar and resume it later, and watch it as many times as desired throughout the term. It's awesome when you are preparing for final exams. Every student in each course is enrolled in a specific class for it, which is offered at different time slots to accommodate varying scheduling needs, and meets two to five times a week. The typical class size is twelve students. You can choose whatever time slot works best for you, but can only change that time with special request once the course has begun; this is foster a sense of continuity and community. The software the school uses is designed to simulate a typical classroom experience. Concurrent video feeds allow students to see one another and the instructors during the seminar. I actually felt there was more dynamic interaction in this setting than in a physical classroom. You can virtually raise your hand by clicking on a button, and when called on either ask a question or make a comment directly into the webcam or type it out. There is a running text chat throughout the whole class that you can use to seek clarification and make contributions. There's a virtual whiteboard, and students can annotate material on it, use a stylus for drawings and graphs, upload images and other content. Students collaborate on projects and presentations. Everyone is expected to be there, on time, and meaningfully participate. Attendance is taken at every class, and every student is called on to give their input. In addition to those real-time classes, every course has a forum for students from every class to come together for discussions.

There's a summer session for students to complete lab components and to spend time together in person. It's not required due to the additional cost traveling there entails, but the majority attend it. Lab kits are also sent to students' homes. Throughout the year there are meet-ups and events at various locations, as well as on campus. The school also hosts homecoming, prom, and graduation, and has enrichment travel trips and college visits. It offers SAT and ACT prep. It has surprisingly robust participation in its extracurricular clubs, and publishes a student newspaper and yearbook. OHS students can also audit Stanford classes, which was really cool for me.

All the teachers have a Masters degree in the discipline they teach, and the majority have their PhD. I think this is the most significant difference between Stanford OHS and a home-school program or school using textbooks from fundamentalist publishers such as A Beka or Bob Jones that cater to homeschoolers and Christian schools. These publishers tend to assume the teacher is not credentialed and knows very little about the subject matter; they rely heavily on the printed curriculum, sticking closely to the corresponding textbooks and focusing on rote memorization.

Stanford OHS has students from around the world, but since it is physically located in California, it is accredited by the WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges), and fulfills both the graduation requirements for California and the admissions requirements for the University of California. Since many students are not Californian or American, it is mindful of the preparation needed for admission elsewhere, such as A-Levels for the UK and 4U/M for students in Ontario such as Cimorene. One unique feature of the OHS curriculum is its Core Sequence that has an emphasis on philosophy, which really exercises your critical thinking skills across the spectrum of subjects. It also emphasizes oral and written argumentation, and the thoughtful evaluation of data.

Can you tell I'm a wee bit stressed about upcoming finals and finding ways to take my mind off them for a while? :)
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Bolding mine. While I would have loved to focus on the subjects I liked but that would have resulted in a grossly inferior education. I would have been years ahead in math and science and lacking in history and English.

I'd choose the opposite, and would consequentially have an equally inferior education due to the imbalance. Condoleezza Rice spoke at my secondary school when I was in the 8th grade, and the advice that embedded into me was to take classes not just in the subjects that you gravitate towards because they are your forte, but the ones that intimidate and challenge you. That if you are naturally gifted in English but recede from math classes, to make a concerted effort to take more demanding math classes to exercise what you are weaker in. And vice versa. It's not just the content of the class itself, though obviously the knowledge gained is valuable, but broadening yourself and learning the art of perseverance. The school has an excellent, well-rounded curriculum, so regardless of aptitude or desire all students must take courses in diverse subjects. At the time, I saw the advice as being more about the attitude I chose to have rather than the choices I could actually make, but as I progressed through high school and into college I did take it more literally.

I've always been skittish about STEM courses because in comparison to my brothers, I'm not as agile in them. They didn't seem to be as relevant to my interests and ambitions, either, but over time I actually discovered they very much are. I admit I still had to be dragged into taking some classes in high school, and had to wrestle with myself to enroll in and not drop some of them that scared me in college. My HS AP Biology, AP Statistics, AP Macroeconomics, and AP Microeconomics classes have been the most useful I've taken, and they are classes I wouldn't have taken without Dr. Rice's advice and my parents' prodding. I definitely wouldn't have taken the AP exams if my mom hadn't made me, because my college doesn't award credit for any of those classes, and I saw the preparation as being an additional and futile stress. But those scores are what enabled me to be able to jump right into classes without taking the prerequisites first. Because of my background in statistics I was able to take a course on biostatistics that is relevant to my passion about vaccination and public health care. Because of the background in economics I was able to leapfrog into higher level economics, and then from them into ones being taught at my college's business school. I'm not a business major. My classes on economic policy have been taught by the former Deputy Director of the White House National Economic Council for the Bush administration. They are not required for my major, but extremely beneficial.

I knew I'd never be a science major, but I also took nine science classes in high school (four year-long classes, two summer classes, and three semester-long electives) and thus far have taken ten at college. I also audited a three week Sophomore College seminar at Stanford when I was attending the OHS called Measles, Sneezles, and Things that Go Mumps in the Night, hahaha. My brick-and-mortar school has a science scholar program where students are paired with mentors to conduct research that is then published. I worked with a psychologist, and continued the research I did then at college, and presented it at the national APA conference over the summer.

I honestly do not see how my parents could have provided a reasonable substitute for brick and mortar school for High School. The knowledge to teach math and science would have been there, but a huge part of real science is lab work and while getting the materials for biology would have worked out OK for chemistry and physics there would have been major cost issues. A full set of glassware for chemistry is not cheap and one also needs a lab counter with a gas outlet for the Bunsen burner. And the ways stand now there would be difficulties getting a lot of the chemicals needed. (There are lots of nasty things that can come out of a good chem lab).

Even parents who possess higher levels of knowledge in a subject may not have the skills to effectively teach that knowledge in an age-appropriate way. One of the reasons for the success of Bill Nye "the science guy" is his ability to teach complex science lessons in a way that is fully comprehensible, engaging, and memorable to kids.

As I wrote in a previous post, home-school programs are often designed to be taught by parents or teachers (they are also used in Christian schools, many of which are unaccredited and do not require that the teachers have credentials) who lack expertise in the subject, so they rely more on workbooks and rote memorization. Rather than the teachers creating lesson plans of their own, they typically just follow the system, teaching scripted drills the students parrot.
They are not as dynamic as a class at a brick and mortar school or an online one where there is interaction with skilled teachers as well as with peers. I think the interaction part is also crucial, not just with teachers but with fellow classmates, learning from them and collaborating on projects. Having a teacher who is truly qualified to evaluate work rather than just marking it using an answer key is very important, too.


And the problem with lab work would have been exacerbated by my ability. I would probably been a couple of years ahead of schedule in the sciences. Math would have been even more of an issue. My mom could have taught it well, but she would have been rusty and she would have had problems once we were past college calculus.

Another issue is that some fields, such as Computer Science, are perpetually evolving, so what a parent learned while in grad school may be obsolete when their kids are in middle and high school grades. Yes, most definitely a parent with a strong background in CS would be much more capable of quickly learning and teaching lessons, but it would require effort on their part to learn what they are teaching.

The homeschool publisher Abeka's math program has been especially criticized for only using what they refer to as "traditional" math and rejecting modern theories.

Still once upon a time it could be argued that home schooling allowed students to progress at a far faster speed in the subjects where they had aptitude. This is far less true today. School systems allow rapid advancement through magnets and other means.

Definitely.

All students enrolled in a high school within the LAUSD is entitled to enroll in their online classes for free, which enables them to take more advanced classes (and also to repeat classes and take ones of interest that aren't offered at their brick and mortar school). Many school districts have a similar policy, as well as full K-12 virtual schools. The Malone Family Foundation provides scholarships to gifted kids who still need more challenges for them to be able to attend Stanford OHS and other comparable schools.

A while ago someone posted excerpts from an article in Stanford Magazine titled "In a class of their own" about home-schooled students who were admitted to Stanford and thriving. The quotes were severed from crucial context, the key one being the date of the article, 2000, with all the kids having completed their high school-level education in the 1990s. The second most important detail omitted was that there were literally only a handful of home-schooled students at Stanford (four in 1999, 5 in 2000) then, and some were enrolled in correspondence programs. There are still only a few home-schooled students here. In the pre-internet era gifted kids were sometimes shuttled from their elementary schools to middle or high schools or college for more advanced classes. Some were enrolled in correspondence programs such as the one Stanford used to offer before the OHS was founded in the mid-2000s. The older brother of a friend who went to a gifted school with me when we were little is the youngest-ever graduate of the University of Chicago's medical school. My friend went on to earn a Masters degree by the age of 18. The gifted school still wasn't sufficient for them, so their mom home-schooled them until they were old enough to be admitted into online college programs. They are, of course, the exceptions, not the norm.


I don't want to give the impression that I think the current school system is perfect or even all that good. I just do not see home schooling as a viable solution.

There's not a singular school system. I think one of the issues with American schools is that their quality is so often dependent upon the socioeconomics of the area it's located in, whereas in some (much smaller) countries all schools are federally funded.

I do think attending school at home is a viable solution for some kids, but only if they are enrolled in a quality online school. I'm guesstimating that around 70% of the kids who are competitive dancers are home-schooled, but they're all in online schools, either public or private. Most began their schooling in brick-and-mortar schools and then transitioned into online schooling around age ten, which is when you typically start training around 20-25 hours a week. They're in a unique circumstance because they are still fully immersed in social settings where they're interacting with kids outside of their own families, from different backgrounds.

I do however see learning at home as an important part of learning. I was cooking gourmet meals at 16. At or before 12 I was making devices that required hand soldering on a circuit board. Earlier than that I was doing Euclidian constructive geometry. By 16 I could take down or top a tree using a chainsaw (though topping was dangerous work and my parents did not allow me to do it).

I've also learned so much at home, but have never taken much interest in domestic skills, haha. Since my parents are amicably divorced and have long been remarried, I have four of them, and they all have important careers and have imparted knowledge about them to us. I decided to become a lawyer like my mom when I was eight, and cultivated an interest in public health policy because of my dad and stepmom who are physicians. Every year they spend a minimum of two weeks volunteering with an international medical organization, and they have brought us with them. That was a perk of going to an OHS because all I needed to attend school was my laptop and a Wifi connection. I've obviously never given medical care, but learned so much about it from observing it being given.

My dad and stepdad did an awesome job teaching me about how to manage finances. How to build up your credit score and manage your stock portfolio. There is absolutely no way I could have made it into the "800 club" at 18 otherwise. I think that's as important, if not more so, than being able to cook a gourmet meal, hahaha. I made the kind of oatmeal this morning that isn't instant, if that counts.

It seems to me that those favoring home schooling are making an implicit assumption that if someone is going to a physical school they cease learning elsewhere. That is simply untrue. But there may be cases where their parents cease actively teaching and if so I would say those parents are not doing their job.

My family has long embraced the maxim about how learning should be a part of life from "the womb to the tomb."

Writing walls of text really do help me to chill out during Dead Week, haha.
 
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Writing walls of text really do help me to chill out during Dead Week, haha.

Good! I sure do enjoy reading them. I learn a lot from them to boot, including new vocabulary words. Lol. Good luck to you on your finals! I'm positive you'll do great. What classes are you taking this semester?
 
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I'd choose the opposite, and would consequentially have an equally inferior education due to the imbalance. Condoleezza Rice spoke at my secondary school when I was in the 8th grade, and the advice that embedded into me was to take classes not just in the subjects that you gravitate towards because they are your forte, but the ones that intimidate and challenge you. That if you are naturally gifted in English but recede from math classes, to make a concerted effort to take more demanding math classes to exercise what you are weaker in. And vice versa. It's not just the content of the class itself, though obviously the knowledge gained is valuable, but broadening yourself and learning the art of perseverance. The school has an excellent, well-rounded curriculum, so regardless of aptitude or desire all students must take courses in diverse subjects. At the time, I saw the advice as being more about the attitude I chose to have rather than the choices I could actually make, but as I progressed through high school and into college I did take it more literally.


I've always been skittish about STEM courses because in comparison to my brothers, I'm not as agile in them. They didn't seem to be as relevant to my interests and ambitions, either, but over time I actually discovered they very much are. I admit I still had to be dragged into taking some classes in high school, and had to wrestle with myself to enroll in and not drop some of them that scared me in college. My HS AP Biology, AP Statistics, AP Macroeconomics, and AP Microeconomics classes have been the most useful I've taken, and they are classes I wouldn't have taken without Dr. Rice's advice and my parents' prodding. I definitely wouldn't have taken the AP exams if my mom hadn't made me, because my college doesn't award credit for any of those classes, and I saw the preparation as being an additional and futile stress. But those scores are what enabled me to be able to jump right into classes without taking the prerequisites first. Because of my background in statistics I was able to take a course on biostatistics that is relevant to my passion about vaccination and public health care. Because of the background in economics I was able to leapfrog into higher level economics, and then from them into ones being taught at my college's business school. I'm not a business major. My classes on economic policy have been taught by the former Deputy Director of the White House National Economic Council for the Bush administration. They are not required for my major, but extremely beneficial.

I knew I'd never be a science major, but I also took nine science classes in high school (four year-long classes, two summer classes, and three semester-long electives) and thus far have taken ten at college. I also audited a three week Sophomore College seminar at Stanford when I was attending the OHS called Measles, Sneezles, and Things that Go Mumps in the Night, hahaha. My brick-and-mortar school has a science scholar program where students are paired with mentors to conduct research that is then published. I worked with a psychologist, and continued the research I did then at college, and presented it at the national APA conference over the summer.

I'm more like Keith. If I could have opted out of every class involving Shakespeare I certainly would have, lol. Probably would have skipped history too. Definitely wouldn't have taken Spanish. I'm better off for having taken all those classes, that is for sure. My college has Gen Ed requirements too so there's plenty of classes we have to take even if they're not in our major & we're not wanting to take them. Some of them have been the best, same as it sounds like with your experience.

Good for you for broadening yourself. It's real clear from all your posts about vaccinations that you're not some poser about it. I read the posts a fellow wrote on your profile page praising you, you earned that. You definitely put that knowledge you worked hard to get to good use. Congrats on working for the senators who wrote that vaccine bill, that's super impressive. Must admit I never gave vaccinations all that much thought before reading what you've written, so Saricharity here sure is dead wrong that folks can't influence others online about this. Keep on doing what you're doing.

Even parents who possess higher levels of knowledge in a subject may not have the skills to effectively teach that knowledge in an age-appropriate way. One of the reasons for the success of Bill Nye "the science guy" is his ability to teach complex science lessons in a way that is fully comprehensible, engaging, and memorable to kids.

As I wrote in a previous post, home-school programs are often designed to be taught by parents or teachers (they are also used in Christian schools, many of which are unaccredited and do not require that the teachers have credentials) who lack expertise in the subject, so they rely more on workbooks and rote memorization. Rather than the teachers creating lesson plans of their own, they typically just follow the system, teaching scripted drills the students parrot.
They are not as dynamic as a class at a brick and mortar school or an online one where there is interaction with skilled teachers as well as with peers. I think the interaction part is also crucial, not just with teachers but with fellow classmates, learning from them and collaborating on projects. Having a teacher who is truly qualified to evaluate work rather than just marking it using an answer key is very important, too.

Sounds like a Christian school I attended for a year when I was little. To tell you the truth I can't remember what brand the books were, but it sounds exactly like what you described. This was when we moved to a rural area to be closer to my grandparents, both got diagnosed with health issues at pretty early ages. On account of the area being so rural you had to go clear across the county to get to the one public K-8 school. It's not like in Atlanta, other big cities where there's plenty of elementary schools, middle schools, HS, to take your pick from. We went to a Baptist school on account of it being right near by. I don't think the teachers had degrees. They taught using workbooks & videos. Parents just paid by the month. It was more like day care than a school. I did make good buddies there but had to do a lot of work to catch up on my education when we moved back to Atlanta.


Another issue is that some fields, such as Computer Science, are perpetually evolving, so what a parent learned while in grad school may be obsolete when their kids are in middle and high school grades. Yes, most definitely a parent with a strong background in CS would be much more capable of quickly learning and teaching lessons, but it would require effort on their part to learn what they are teaching.

The homeschool publisher Abeka's math program has been especially criticized for only using what they refer to as "traditional" math and rejecting modern theories.

I looked up Abeka. At first I thought it was some Biblical word. No, it's just a blend of the founders 1st names, lol. Their math program sounds pathetic. They reject set theory? What the heck. I don't see how on earth they can even justify making folks pay for that. Anybody taught from it sure would be in a world of trouble at my school since there's math in just about every class you take.

FUNDAMENTALIST HOMESCHOOLING IS A POISON

This fellow wrote about his experiences with Abeka, homeschooling in general. It's sad.

Definitely.

All students enrolled in a high school within the LAUSD is entitled to enroll in their online classes for free, which enables them to take more advanced classes (and also to repeat classes and take ones of interest that aren't offered at their brick and mortar school). Many school districts have a similar policy, as well as full K-12 virtual schools. The Malone Family Foundation provides scholarships to gifted kids who still need more challenges for them to be able to attend Stanford OHS and other comparable schools.

A while ago someone posted excerpts from an article in Stanford Magazine titled "In a class of their own" about home-schooled students who were admitted to Stanford and thriving. The quotes were severed from crucial context, the key one being the date of the article, 2000, with all the kids having completed their high school-level education in the 1990s. The second most important detail omitted was that there were literally only a handful of home-schooled students at Stanford (four in 1999, 5 in 2000) then, and some were enrolled in correspondence programs. There are still only a few home-schooled students here. In the pre-internet era gifted kids were sometimes shuttled from their elementary schools to middle or high schools or college for more advanced classes. Some were enrolled in correspondence programs such as the one Stanford used to offer before the OHS was founded in the mid-2000s. The older brother of a friend who went to a gifted school with me when we were little is the youngest-ever graduate of the University of Chicago's medical school. My friend went on to earn a Masters degree by the age of 18. The gifted school still wasn't sufficient for them, so their mom home-schooled them until they were old enough to be admitted into online college programs. They are, of course, the exceptions, not the norm.


There's not a singular school system. I think one of the issues with American schools is that their quality is so often dependent upon the socioeconomics of the area it's located in, whereas in some (much smaller) countries all schools are federally funded.

I do think attending school at home is a viable solution for some kids, but only if they are enrolled in a quality online school. I'm guesstimating that around 70% of the kids who are competitive dancers are home-schooled, but they're all in online schools, either public or private. Most began their schooling in brick-and-mortar schools and then transitioned into online schooling around age ten, which is when you typically start training around 20-25 hours a week. They're in a unique circumstance because they are still fully immersed in social settings where they're interacting with kids outside of their own families, from different backgrounds.

With your big thing being dance I can see online school working out well for you. It wouldn't have worked at all for me on account of how I played team sports.

My family has long embraced the maxim about how learning should be a part of life from "the womb to the tomb."

That's the right attitude to have!
 
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I'm quoting this post:
Homeschool curriculums worth their salt have very stringent marking protocols and rubrics as part of the curriculum. "Mommy" isn't just assigning arbitrary marks. There are so many options available now. DVD and online classes taught and marked by trained professionals. As far as colleges and universities, most have personnel hired specifically as liaisons to help homeschool students apply because they are coveted by the schools.

The challenge is that this figurative salt isn't measured with a uniform scale, so the worth of it is dependent upon personal calibrations and taste. This is precisely why many universities with competitive admission require or strongly recommend home-schooled applicants take additional standardized tests so there is a more consistent metric for evaluating their candidacy. That provides more equity to all applicants. If the curriculums you utilized while home-schooling enabled you to flourish, that's wonderful, but it's necessary to discuss facts about them and acknowledge that others who used them haven't been as blessed. The Orlando Sentinel conducted an in-depth investigation into three Christian publishing companies, Abeka, BJU Press, and Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) following public outcry that taxpayer funds were being diverted to vouchers for private schools, many of which are not accredited, that spent millions per year on purchasing materials from them. The Sentinel asked educators from Florida colleges and school districts to review the textbooks and workbooks from these publishers, carefully examining materials from elementary through high school instruction. They found numerous incidences of history being taught through disturbingly distorted and dogmatic lens of religious and political opinion, giving highly revisionary accounts of important matters, such as slavery and the Civil Rights Act. They characterized several of the lessons as whitewashing, and as being disparaging of faiths other than fundamentalist Protestantism and political views other than right-wing conservative. The issue with the science materials were not isolated to ones pertaining to worldview, but encompassed broader problems. A professor at the University of Central Florida stated that students who learned science with those materials would be intellectually disadvantaged. (It's important to note that UCF, like most American universities, have General Education Requirements mandating that all students take college-level science courses regardless of their major). As I explained in another post here, Abeka's math program was criticized for its rejection of modern math theories, which are important to know to excel in higher level math courses. I've personally used what they reject in my economics classes.

The Florida educators who reviewed the textbook programs found them to be lacking in developing critical thinking skills, relying too heavily on repetition and rote memorization. Their assessment is aligned with what I explained previously about University of California educators who extensively reviewed Abeka's textbooks and determined they provided insufficient preparation for their colleges. They did not determine that the textbooks would lead to great gnashing of teeth and sure failure, a future of holding out a tin cup, ha. Nor did they decide that applicants who were taught with those textbooks were automatically disqualified for admission. The process for getting into a UC is quite elaborate for everyone, even more so for homeschooled applicants, so a student who showed promise with their test scores, the samples of academic work they submitted for review, and application essays could still be welcomed in, but with conditions. Those who were taught with Abeka must take remedial courses before taking the numerous required ones. You can read about the lawsuit in which the University of California won the right to uphold their educational standards here: Association of Christian Schools International v. Roman Stearns - Wikipedia

It's also imperative to discuss how competitive admission to University of California colleges are, not out of pretentiousness, but pragmatism. UCLA and Berkeley in particular have consistently been ranked not just as two of the best in the United States, but are in the top 20 public universities in the world. Their prestige attracts close to a quarter million applicants every year, and around 16.5% are admitted. All applicants are required to have completed UC approved admissions requirements, or to take remedial courses to address educational deficiencies. Considering the high caliber of the students who are admitted and enroll, the intention is not to hinder students who used Abeka textbooks or stigmatize them, but just the opposite, to equip them with a comparable baseline of undergraduate education as their classmates so they too can have the full potential to succeed.

In The Orlando Sentinel's article there were defenders of Abeka, the most ardent ones unsurprisingly being the schools that use it. Since the textbook publishers are profitable, clearly there's enough consumers who feel content with what is provided. I have two friends who used Abeka for part, or all of their education growing up, and they are both highly critical of some aspects and offer praise about others. Both said that the phonetics program for young learners is excellent. One of the friends moved to California from Vietnam when she was 7, and at the recommendation of other families, her parents used Abeka to teach her English. It was fantastic for her. Homeschooling also nurtured her passion for music; she's a violinist for the Stanford Symphony Orchestra now. Once she was fluent in English, her parents enrolled her in public school where she thrived.

The other issue with home-schooling is that, unlike in France where the OP of this thread is from, in the United States and a few other countries where it's legal, there are no parameters set. There've been several horrifying incidents where children have been severely abused and neglected for years due to the parents "home-schooling" them and so they were kept away from those who could have extended help. Even in less atrocious cases I've known of home-schoolers who've been deprived of schooling as punishment, and who could have benefited immensely from having regular contact with mandated reporters of abuse or simply caring adults outside of her own family.


The studies show that homeschoolers are leaps and bounds ahead of students coming out of the public school system.

This is unfortunately what my friend I referenced previously who chose to home-school and now bitterly regrets that choice believed when she made the decision. There have been studies about home-schooled students being successful, yes, but much of the propaganda propagated by home-schooling advocates is misleading. The studies are very narrow in scope. She wished she'd had a more realistic understanding of home-schooling and how it would impact her prospects of being admitted to college with selective admission. She hadn't realized that she'd need to take multiple additional standardized tests as a home-schooled applicant. She did get into the college you first attended and was offered a full scholarship - and a living stipend! - but couldn't handle the cold. :)

At my own college, there currently are a total of seven undergraduates who were home-schooled. I went to private schools, but the majority went to public schools.

If you plan to attend University in Ontario, homeschoolers do not even need a high school diploma. You just need six grade 12 Academic credits. These credits can be granted by a parent.

This is not correct. Though at some universities in Ontario home-schoolers may not need a high school diploma, with academic credits that are granted by a parent sufficing in their stead, that is absolutely not the case for all. I know for fact that some do, though most universities do make exceptions on a case-by-case basis so it's conceivable that someone could be admitted without one.

Let's face it, if a student goes to University and can't cut the mustard, it is going to show up very quickly. Universities are not finding this to be the case. Homeschool students are exceeding their expectations.

You're correct, and though many home-schooled students have gone on to college and exceeded expectations, many others failed to meet them. This is precisely why the University of California instituted its policy regarding students who were taught with Abeka textbooks.

My other friend who was homeschooled using the Abeka curriculum recently graduated from UCLA and wholly agrees with UC's decision to have students who were taught with it take remedial coursework, even though it entailed substantial extra work and cost for her. She viewed that as necessary to patch significant deficiencies in her education (some of which she hadn't realized were so profound until in college) that would have thwarted her success when she advanced to the required courses, and even more so when she made it into her major. If at your college you do not have mandatory coursework outside of your own major, compelling you into subjects beyond those in your forte, you may not be able to empathize even if you took the same courses she did in high school. She actually views some of her high school education as being like cavities she hadn't known she had. It took drilling to take out what was decayed to then fill it up properly. She had extremely negative experiences being home-schooled, to the extent that she went to local schools and implored them to enroll her, but that wasn't permissible without parental consent. She moved out and into her aunt's house when she was 18. I met her when I was in between the 11th and 12th grade and she was in her 20s, just making her way into the biology course I was taking that summer (I'd fulfilled the prerequisite with the science classes I had at HS). It's because of her that I believe very strongly teens should not be forced to home-school, and I wish the United States had the regulations that England, Belgium and France do that provide more protections and oversight.
 
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Edit
Found out the reason for the thread being cleaned up was not on account of any of my posts or Stanfordella's. Folks need to learn how to read & respect rules. They do the opposite of promoting homeschooling when they come on here, create a great big drama, & never belonged here to begin with.

It's a pity there had to be a clean up around here. I wanted to clarify a few things. I was not intending to come across as pretentious by talking about how I think the University of CA surely knows more about why certain homeschool textbooks don't cut the mustard for their admissions standards than folks who've never applied to much less gone to UC. I thought that was just plain to understand but am sorry if somehow that was offensive. I don't go to UC, btw. I do to go another state college that is pretty dang hard to get into, & it appears to be tougher for folks who were homeschooled. Same as with UC, we're all required to take GERs. A lot of those courses may not have a diddly dang thing to do with your degree itself. They're wanting us to have a strong college education on a lot of subjects. Every single person is required to take science classes. I honestly had no idea that some colleges didn't require that. I think especially right now on account of there being so much ignorance out there re science stuff, all colleges definitely should require folks to take science classes. Science classes taught by professors who actually have real degrees in science. I think we wouldn't have nearly as many folks in society clueless about vaccines, climate change, if more folks had real education about it.

I surely wasn't playing any games about how "my college is better than yours" either. I just think if you're going to brag so hard about yourself about the number of colleges you got into, it's real important to talk about just how hard it was to get into those colleges in the 1st place. It's just plain as day common sense that getting into a college like Harvard, Stanford, UC surely is a heck of a lot harder than getting into some other schools. I'm more impressed with somebody who gets into 1 college like that than who gets full scholarships to 10 other colleges that accept nearly everybody. Doesn't mean that the colleges that aren't hard to get into at all are only attracting dummies. I'd be in a heap of trouble if I believed that on account of how my own girlfriend got her start at community college. That college really does accept anybody who can fill out the application. She did dual enrollment. Her last 2 years of HS were her 1st 2 years of college. We're the same age, but she's 3 grades ahead of me now, lol. I stayed put at my school on account of the sports I played. It was a real smart move for her part on account of how it meant the college classes were FREE. She finished all her GER credits. Earned her AA. Transferred to a terrific college, easy as pie. You just won't her bragging about herself for having gotten in there.
 
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The worth of a college education is not determined by the cost of attendance or how difficult it was to be admitted, but rather by the value of the knowledge and experiences gained, and most importantly, how it is all utilized. Nevertheless, in discussions about college and the prospects of anyone - but for the purpose of this discussion home-schooled applicants specifically - gaining admission and being equipped to thrive there, the most reasonable metric to use is the college's application process and acceptance rate.

It's a hobby of mine to help friends apply to college. No matter how much I'm prepared for my own finals, I always wind myself up into a state of anxiety, so helping my friends this way is mutually beneficial because it creates healthy diversions that help me to unwind. This process has also enabled me to become a bit more knowledgeable about admission to universities around the world since through competing in international dance competitions I've made friends who live on various continents. Right now the friend I'm concentrating on assisting, reading her application essays to give her feedback, is the one I've referenced previously who was devastated after being rejected by 11 colleges in the United States. She felt severely mislead by the propaganda on popular home-schooling sites effusing about how home-schooled students were enthusiastically recruited by colleges, encountering few obstacles in the admissions process, and excelling once admitted. Their claims have truth in them, some home-schooled students are indeed recruited and lavished with scholarships. It all depends on which colleges you're wanting to attend.

For the sake of comparison, I'll talk about a college that is very popular with home-schoolers and warmly welcomes them in. Houghton College is a very small Christian school in New York state. It has a 95% acceptance rate. Only 29% of the applicants who are admitted choose to go there, so to entice talented applicants, they offer full scholarships and are very willing to accommodate them however possible. They have a decent endowment, so it's to their benefit to use the funds to recruit students. They recommend, but do not require, any standardized tests. They do not require any specific academic preparation. Any adult not related to the student can write the letter of recommendation. There is no evaluation submitted by a teacher or administrator. Students wanting to be in their music program do have a more involved process, but it's one specifically pertaining to music. The college has a softer and more flexible approach to General Education Requirements, so a student who had a weaker background in a subject would not be obligated to take courses in it.

My friend's first-choice college is the University of Southern California. It has a 13% admit rate, so it's very difficult for anyone to get in, but it's even harder for home-schooled applicants because only they are required to take additional standardized tests. All students must submit their SAT scores for Evidence-Based Reading and Writing and Mathematics. Only home-schooled students must also submit their scores for three SAT Subject Tests, one of which must be in math. Each test entails significant preparation, as well as expense. They have outstanding music, dance, and film programs, and supplemental applications are also required for them. USC has demanding General Education Requirements, so anyone lacking appropriate college preparation for biology, math, foreign languages, and history will not be as equipped to excel.

The other colleges my friend was rejected from all have admissions rates under 35%. If she had applied to colleges that accepted 80% of applicants or more, she undoubtedly would have been admitted to them, and most likely offered scholarships. Now that she is enrolled full-time in an online school, she will not be considered a home-schooled applicant, and will hopefully have an improved shot of being admitted to top colleges. She is also applying to the University of Toronto in Canada. This university has General Education Requirements more on par with American universities. It has the lowest admit rate in Canada.

So to give a TL;DR, I'd encourage anyone considering home-schooling for their high school education to thoroughly research the admissions process, academic preparation guidelines, test requirements, and realistic prospects of acceptance for all colleges of interest well in advance. I would go directly to the admissions pages for all colleges rather than relying upon home-school association sites for reliable information.
 
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Now, I'm not wanting to start up another drama, am still scratching my head on how we ended up having any in this thread in the 1st place, lol. For anybody wondering there was a big clean up here. On account of the homeschooled gal who was posting here being known for anti vaxxer posts I'm wondering if that's a common overlap? Are more folks who homeschool anti vaxx? I could see how anti vaxx beliefs would be more common with fundamentalists who reject est. science. (I do know not all folks who homeschool are fundies btw)
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Now, I'm not wanting to start up another drama, am still scratching my head on how we ended up having any in this thread in the 1st place, lol. For anybody wondering there was a big clean up here. On account of the homeschooled gal who was posting here being known for anti vaxxer posts I'm wondering if that's a common overlap? Are more folks who homeschool anti vaxx? I could see how anti vaxx beliefs would be more common with fundamentalists who reject est. science. (I do know not all folks who homeschool are fundies btw)

I'm not aware of actual statistics, but I think it's reasonable to assume there is a higher percentage of home-schooled children, especially younger ones, who have not received all the vaccines on the schedule required for school attendance. This does not equate to their parents having an ideological opposition to vaccination, though. I remember a home-schooling parent on this forum expressing how affronted he was by the stigmatizing stereotype he's encountered that home-schooling is a haven for anti-vaxxers, and explained that the home-schooling association his family belonged to was resolute about children being properly vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers, those who intentionally deprive their kids of vaccinations, actually constitute a very tiny part of the population; they're just substantially more vocal than the majority. This isn't to say they aren't destructive, they are in a way that is analogous to how it only takes a few matches to start a massive wildfire. There are far more children who are under-vaccinated rather than entirely unvaccinated, who fall behind schedule not by choice but due to parental limitations on time, money, access, and information. Schools can be a significant asset in this regard, especially ones in states / countries / provinces that have stricter vaccination policies as a condition for enrollment. Many hold immunization clinics on campus, having nurses come to the school and provide the vaccinations there. Unfortunately, in a lot of school distracts that's not feasible, but fortunately in many it is. There are also parents who fully intend to have their children vaccinated on schedule, but time slips through their hands. If their kids are attending school and they must submit the immunization records, they are kicked into gear. Parents who are home-schooling their children do not have such motivators.

There is a definite correlation between young earth creationism and anti-vaccination (and also climate change denial and the tendency to accept conspiracy theories); the common denominator is often a rejection or skepticism of established science that conflicts with personal beliefs or worldview. There have been studies about the psychological link, and how it's really complicated addressing misinformation or misconceptions because the more you throw scientific data and facts at those who've denied something scientific, the more defensive and entrenched they become in their anti-science stance. UC's issue with the Abeka textbooks was not with it teaching young earth creationism specifically, but with its failure to teach science literacy. That is demonstrated by some who've used the textbooks and cannot differentiate between legitimate or illegitimate sources of information. So yes, I think families who are using fundamentalist textbooks like Abeka that teach young earth creationism are more likely to also be anti-vaxxers, or some variant of it such as "pro-choice." (Which is a nonsensical term since in the majority of cases people do have choices about vaccinations, they simply do not want to accept the consequences of their choices.) But again, I think it's an error to automatically assume that someone home-schooled with YEC textbooks is also anti-vaccination.

In a public health class I took last year we were brainstorming ways to effectively encourage fundamentalists who are vaccine skeptics to immunize themselves and their children. Even though at my college fundamentalist views and belief in YEC is an extreme rarity, in other parts of the United States and Canada it isn't. I reached out to the author of textbooks almost exclusively used by home-schoolers because he is a devoted advocate of vaccination. He's used his popular blog site as a place to champion the cause, addressing and correcting misinformation (such as vaccines containing fetal tissue from abortions) in a fact-based but personable way that is very compelling. He hasn't presented opinions about vaccinations, he's presented facts for the purpose of educating people he cares about properly on the topic. He's also detailed how students of his have contracted diseases vaccines provide protection for, and the parents deeply regretted their decision. He's explained how you can be contagious with a disease you're incubating before you're ever aware of it because the symptoms haven't yet kicked in. He's showcased letters parents have sent him about the lessons they painfully learned, such as the mom of an unvaccinated teenage girl who went on a missions trip abroad, returned and unintentionally contaminated her siblings and caused an outbreak in their community. It's not true that you can only impact people with face-to-face interactions; parents have written to him about how his blog posts have changed their minds on vaccinations. Though not as many as he would like. His name is Dr. Jay Wile, and I found out about him from @Saricharity who had presented him as an unimpeachable expert on creationism in a thread here some time ago. I can understand why she respected him so much; he's extremely kind! If she has a sincere desire to become educated about vaccination, I definitely encourage her to make use of her connection to him. I'm sure he would be absolutely delighted to provide her with accurate knowledge that is also harmonious with her worldview. I did make the disclaimer to him that neither I nor anyone in my class shared his stance on YEC, because I didn't want to be misleading in any way. He wrote back to me quickly, as in I hit send before going to bed, and his email was in my inbox when I woke up! That was awesome of him. He gave me permission to share the email with my class, too, which I appreciated. He said that he shared my frustration and struggles, that it's very difficult getting people "to see reason when they don't want to." I won't share the entire email due to space but here's part of it:
Hello Ella,

Thanks for contacting me. I appreciate your desire to get people to protect themselves, and I share your frustration when it comes to people ignoring facts because of their preconceived notions. I think that for those who tend to use my curriculum, it does help to discuss things taking their faith into account. So, for example, when I talk with people like that one-on-one, I discuss the concept of the Fall of Man, and how that corrupted the world. That corruption led to sickness and disease, and vaccinations are simply one way we deal with that corruption.

I also contacted Creation Ministries International, another popular source for creationists that I found out about from Saricharity and others on this forum. They were also very nice. A couple of months afterwards, they made the effort to provide a page on their website with thorough fact-based as well as faith-based information about vaccines, to encourage their readers to use this gift to protect their health and others. They wrote in their summary that "vaccination is one of the most important advances that God has allowed us to discover to alleviate the effects of the Curse."

CMI, vaccines, and vaccination

Edit - fixed the link to CMI!
 
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Go Braves

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Thanks for that thorough reply, @Stanfordella ! I had a hunch there was a correlation between anti-vaxxers & folks who used fundamentalist textbooks to homeschool on account of seeing that really clearly right here. You're right that we shouldn't make assumptions that every homeschooler is an anti-vaxxer tho. I sure am glad to know there's plenty who aren't! That's great you contacted the fellow who wrote @Saricharity homeschool textbooks to learn how to promote vaccination to folks with the same fundamentalist POV as theirs. I'm glad to know he's done all he can to encourage folks to get their shots. You are helping to save lives! Pity we make sure our pets have gotten theirs but don't do the same with kids!

Thanks too for the info about colleges that cater to homeschoolers. Not saying that a school that is super easy to get into can't also be a good school. I just think some perspective is needed, lol. I think it's pretty dang disingenuous for somebody to come all being all pompous & pretentious bragging about college acceptances when those colleges admit near everybody. It's misleading to folks like that gal friend of yours who didn't get into any of the colleges she applied to on account of all the extra things she had to do as a homeschooled applicant.
 
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Lol, on the topic of homeschooling & vaccination. I just saw something funny on Reddit about a punk couple who blame vaccinations on their 15 month old suddenly not liking their music.

It's on a site called Hard Times. Just wrote about it here:
Local Mom Claims Vaccines Caused Her Son's Calvinism

“I don’t know anyone who has ever had whooping cough, or rubella, or whatever other made-up diseases we are supposed to believe threaten our kids. But what I do know is that whenever we are in the minivan, the only thing Isaac wants to hear is The Wiggles… and I seriously want to drive off a bridge,” said Mrs. Melun while sewing a Misfits patch onto a onesie. “Although, Rubella would be a sick band name…”

Even though their child is only 15-months old, the Meluns have already decided on homeschooling in an effort to control their child’s musical exposure.

“We are his parents. We know what is best for him,” said Mr. Melun, lighting up a cigarette.
 
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Cimorene

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Which online school do you go to?

Stanford OHS.

Sorry it took forever to reply. I was not active on here for a super long time. Idk if I'm going to be active much longer so if you ask follow up questions & it takes me forever to reply again, I'm sorry for that too. :D
 
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