What do you think about Homeschool?

[Cimorene]

Cimorene is no longer active here but she told me that it is OK to say which online school she went to. It is Stanford Online High School. My understanding is that it is mainly real classes connected through the video on most computers. So one still has the commitment to be there on time, just that there is in front of your computer instead of in a building on campus.

Oh thx for answering! Lol, I was about to write a post explaining it then I saw that Ella had already written a super detailed response. Yes, the OHS is set up more like college & a lot of the teachers are also professors. You must attend the classes but they meet 2-3 times a week for seminars instead of every day. It definitely prepares you very well for college. Not just in the US but wherever you want to go in the world. I applied to colleges in the US, Canada & Austria.

I went for the whole summer sessions on campus every year. It's set up more like a cross between boarding school & summer camp. You go to classes M-F from 8:30 to 12:30 in the classrooms. Then you have fun stuff in the afternoon. Ella just did the shorter labs in August but I liked the full labs, with the dissections & all that, lol. They have that in the summer.

The education is definitely superior than in homeschooling. You have real teachers, ones with PhDs in their field & experience, who are giving you a real education & real assignments & grading you for real. There's no way you could graduate from Stanford OHS & think that "research" is reading Fb posts & watching Vaxxed, bc you have to write real research papers. It does have some of the advantages of homeschooling, bc you are going to school at home. School has been canceled a lot bc of the freezing cold & that sounds fun in a way but then you get so bored & you end up having to do make-up days when the weather is nice. So I like how with the OHS there aren't snow days. You don't have to go outside in the cold when it's below freezing.

In some ways I regret not going to a "real" HS bc all my friends who did loved it so much. My mom was an exec with a cruise company & worked in Europe. By going to the OHS I got to travel with her. That was really special. I couldn't have missed that much school if I went to a "real" school. I went to a music conservatory in Salzburg for two months.

I finished three exams with the RCM before the 12th grade & then was able to start teaching & earn $$$$. It was nice having a flexible schedule for that.

I would never recommend homeschooling where your parents are your teachers, but I do think that going to a quality OHS can be a great experience. Stanford OHS does have a lot of the normal HS experiences. Like Grad Night at Disneyland, Prom, Homecoming, graduation. It just gets to be sort of expensive bc you have to fly in for it. It's def. worth it though.

As you're aware but many others here are not, Cimorene and I befriended one another while we were both enrolled at Stanford OHS, so I'm able to provide a bit of insight on how it's structured and why it's an appealing choice. The school enables students to attend full-time as Cimorene did, or part, taking supplemental courses while pursuing a diploma at another institution, which is how I and my brothers were enrolled. My older brother began taking classes at Stanford OHS when he was in the 9th grade and had already surpassed the highest level math and computer science classes available at his K-12 private school. It was imperative for him to remain at his school where he was a dedicated athlete who went on to be recruited by colleges, but also for him to be able to flourish intellectually. That school and Stanford OHS are a part of the Malone Family Foundation consortium of schools that focus on providing suitably challenging education for gifted kids. He seamlessly weaved the online and traditional classes into a gratifying curriculum with a schedule that could fit everything in and still allow for a happy social life, and my little brother and I were able to follow suit. I'm not the serious athlete they are, but am a competitive dancer and needed to be able to fit in 30 hours a week of training with school. I also wanted a classic high school experience, and I definitely got one. Cimorene also had an enjoyable and fulfilling experience as a full-time student, attending prom, retreats, and graduation.

Since Stanford OHS draws in students from time zones around the world, it is formatted a little differently than public online schools where the majority of students live within the state. They use a "flipped classroom model." To me it's like a hybrid between a typical high school class and an undergraduate seminar where there are hundreds of students enrolled in a course taught in a large lecture hall, but then students meet in smaller classrooms to engage in the material more in depth. Teachers record lectures and post reading assignments and other materials online, and students watch them and complete the preliminary work at their own discretion. The perk of this is that you can pause the seminar and resume it later, and watch it as many times as desired throughout the term. It's awesome when you are preparing for final exams. Every student in each course is enrolled in a specific class for it, which is offered at different time slots to accommodate varying scheduling needs, and meets two to five times a week. The typical class size is twelve students. You can choose whatever time slot works best for you, but can only change that time with special request once the course has begun; this is foster a sense of continuity and community. The software the school uses is designed to simulate a typical classroom experience. Concurrent video feeds allow students to see one another and the instructors during the seminar. I actually felt there was more dynamic interaction in this setting than in a physical classroom. You can virtually raise your hand by clicking on a button, and when called on either ask a question or make a comment directly into the webcam or type it out. There is a running text chat throughout the whole class that you can use to seek clarification and make contributions. There's a virtual whiteboard, and students can annotate material on it, use a stylus for drawings and graphs, upload images and other content. Students collaborate on projects and presentations. Everyone is expected to be there, on time, and meaningfully participate. Attendance is taken at every class, and every student is called on to give their input. In addition to those real-time classes, every course has a forum for students from every class to come together for discussions.

There's a summer session for students to complete lab components and to spend time together in person. It's not required due to the additional cost traveling there entails, but the majority attend it. Lab kits are also sent to students' homes. Throughout the year there are meet-ups and events at various locations, as well as on campus. The school also hosts homecoming, prom, and graduation, and has enrichment travel trips and college visits. It offers SAT and ACT prep. It has surprisingly robust participation in its extracurricular clubs, and publishes a student newspaper and yearbook. OHS students can also audit Stanford classes, which was really cool for me.

All the teachers have a Masters degree in the discipline they teach, and the majority have their PhD. I think this is the most significant difference between Stanford OHS and a home-school program or school using textbooks from fundamentalist publishers such as A Beka or Bob Jones that cater to homeschoolers and Christian schools. These publishers tend to assume the teacher is not credentialed and knows very little about the subject matter; they rely heavily on the printed curriculum, sticking closely to the corresponding textbooks and focusing on rote memorization.

Stanford OHS has students from around the world, but since it is physically located in California, it is accredited by the WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges), and fulfills both the graduation requirements for California and the admissions requirements for the University of California. Since many students are not Californian or American, it is mindful of the preparation needed for admission elsewhere, such as A-Levels for the UK and 4U/M for students in Ontario such as Cimorene. One unique feature of the OHS curriculum is its Core Sequence that has an emphasis on philosophy, which really exercises your critical thinking skills across the spectrum of subjects. It also emphasizes oral and written argumentation, and the thoughtful evaluation of data.

Can you tell I'm a wee bit stressed about upcoming finals and finding ways to take my mind off them for a while?

 

[Cimorene]

I have found that having a 'high' grading scale does not indicate a difficult class. Quite the opposite. It as often as not means the test is a mere regurgitation of facts or in math the completion of comparatively simple problems where all one needs to do is turn the crank. I recall tests where being in the 60s was a solid A. But I also recall getting back the results of one such test and having the Professor when presenting the 'right' answers told us that for one of the problems he was giving us what he thought the right answer was and if any of us had something different that we thought was correct to please see him after class and explain it so he could give more points on that question.

I've also had classes where the time element was so significant that even I did not finish and I was very fast. One calculus test I took had 5 questions and we were to do 4 out of 5 questions and if any of had extra time we could do the 5th for extra credit. The instructor doubted any of would have the time for that. I did all 5, double checked everything and had time left over. Yet that other test I did not finish.

The person you are quoting seriously doesn't understand grading scales!

The grading scales in Ontario are completely different than the ones used in the US & in other areas of Canada!

Lol, I saw that Ella had already explained that too. K, I need to just finish reading all the posts THEN reply.

 

[Zoii]

Oh thx for answering! Lol, I was about to write a post explaining it then I saw that Ella had already written a super detailed response. Yes, the OHS is set up more like college & a lot of the teachers are also professors. You must attend the classes but they meet 2-3 times a week for seminars instead of every day. It definitely prepares you very well for college. Not just in the US but wherever you want to go in the world. I applied to colleges in the US, Canada & Austria.

I went for the whole summer sessions on campus every year. It's set up more like a cross between boarding school & summer camp. You go to classes M-F from 8:30 to 12:30 in the classrooms. Then you have fun stuff in the afternoon. Ella just did the shorter labs in August but I liked the full labs, with the dissections & all that, lol. They have that in the summer.

The education is definitely superior than in homeschooling. You have real teachers, ones with PhDs in their field & experience, who are giving you a real education & real assignments & grading you for real. There's no way you could graduate from Stanford OHS & think that "research" is reading Fb posts & watching Vaxxed, bc you have to write real research papers. It does have some of the advantages of homeschooling, bc you are going to school at home. School has been canceled a lot bc of the freezing cold & that sounds fun in a way but then you get so bored & you end up having to do make-up days when the weather is nice. So I like how with the OHS there aren't snow days. You don't have to go outside in the cold when it's below freezing.

In some ways I regret not going to a "real" HS bc all my friends who did loved it so much. My mom was an exec with a cruise company & worked in Europe. By going to the OHS I got to travel with her. That was really special. I couldn't have missed that much school if I went to a "real" school. I went to a music conservatory in Salzburg for two months.

I finished three exams with the RCM before the 12th grade & then was able to start teaching & earn $$$$. It was nice having a flexible schedule for that.

I would never recommend homeschooling where your parents are your teachers, but I do think that going to a quality OHS can be a great experience. Stanford OHS does have a lot of the normal HS experiences. Like Grad Night at Disneyland, Prom, Homecoming, graduation. It just gets to be sort of expensive bc you have to fly in for it. It's def. worth it though.

Where did you get to travel Cimorene?

 

[Cimorene]

My biggest concern with homeschooling is that kids who are abused or neglected don't have as many adults in their life to take notice & hopefully intervene. It's not just the most horrific cases of abuse like the homeschooling family in Cali that had chained their children up, starved them, beaten them & nobody knew about them for yrs bc they weren't registered at school. There's a lot of more subtle forms of abuse & neglect. Yes of course kids who attend school are abused & neglected too but teachers are mandatory reporters of abuse, so there are at least some safeguards. I've heard of homeschooled kids having to miss out on school entirely bc they are being punished. Of them being subjected to punishments that aren't so violently abusive like w the notorious cases but are enough that def. cause psychological harm. Or them having concerning medical issues & being treated with futile home remedies instead of real medicine that they need. Their parents turn to chiropractors & Facebook instead of actual medical drs.

Teachers can notice when a kid is withdrawing & seems unlike herself. And ask why. I went to an OHS so I didn't physically go to school every day but every day I was interfacing w teachers who knew me, cared about me. Took notice when things were off w me. Like when my grandpa got prostate cancer I never told anybody at school about that but a teacher noticed that I wasn't myself & made the point of asking me if I was OK. Stuff like that matters. I think knowing you've got teachers you can reach out to is important.

I don't think anybody is really paying attn to this thread anymore but anyways I'm gonna post a screenshot of signs of abuse & neglect as a FYI

ETA
If anybody needs to get help or knows anybody who does, here's sites that have free help by text, it's confidential
Crisis Text Line
https://teenlineonline.org/

 

[Cimorene]

Where did you get to travel Cimorene?

Sorry for taking foreverrrrr to reply, Zoii. Lol. I don't come here much during the school yr, then I forgot all about this thread till something made me think of it today.

My mom's office was based in Austria & we had an apartment there to settle into! I went to a conservatory there during the week while she worked then we would travel on the weekends. My favourite was Norway in the summer! We also got to go wherever the cruise liner went bc my mom worked in marketing for the Europe trips, so that was literally a part of her job! We did also get to go to other places just for freebie vacations. We went to the Bahamas, Panama Canal, Alaska. I wish we could have gone on a cruise around Australia! I did get to go there tho to visit w friends! I liked it a lot. I didn't get to go to the Great Barrier Reef so that's still on my to do list!

 

[God saves]

I think homeschooling could be good if the parents are able to give their child(ren) who is/are being homeschooled a stable, warm and nurturing home environment, and a quality education (with help from additional or outside resources if necessary). I think homeschooling may not practicable both parents (or a single parent) work full-time unless the parents can afford to hire a quality outside educator or the child is an older youth or teenager who is online schooled and able to benefit from online schooling (since at that age depending on the situation they may be able to responsibly stay home alone for long periods of time).

I think if the parents are Christians, it is important that the children be taught the way of the Lord and the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and be taught the Holy Bible.

Some children and youth may have a disability or illness that makes it difficult for them to fully benefit from mainstream public or private school and in that case proper homeschooling may be a good option.

There are almost always ways to get children involved with activities, for example volunteer activities, walking or hiking if feasible, cycling, and cooking; in fact I think if there are the resources and skills (e.g if a parent, relative or friend of the parents or children know how to cook), these activities do not need to be expensive.

A challenge of homeschooling is potential hidden abuse and neglect in the home (whether intentional or not); honestly I think a method that could help monitor this is to require to put a in parts of the apartment/ house (such as the living room) of all homeschooling families but I don't think that would expose all abuse and may not be completely practicable and ethical. Where families often perhaps in frustation react to their child in an inappropriate way, homeschooling may be less ideal since that would create a less good home and learning environment and I think sometimes parents may be less frustrated if they can have a break from parenting. Another challenge is conforming to national or state education standards, which may be helped with the homeschooling parent having a teaching qualification although I do not think this guarauntees successful homeschooling.

Finally, I believe all laws of the land must be followed unless they go against God, so I believe it is important that all children being homeschooled are homeschooled in a lawful manner.

 

[Cimorene]

... And if you look at grading scale in public school in Canada and compare it to US, it's not even close. For example, an A is considered anything from 80-100 or 4 whereas in my homeschool (which my mom fashions after the private school she teaches in) an 80 would certainly not be anywhere close to an A.
The standards are just so much lower.

I'm 99.7% positive this is from @Saricharity but there's been evidence of a lot of clean up on these aisles so people have replied to posts that are no longer posted. I think I've pieced the conversation together.

I think @Stanfordella did an excellent job explaining how @Saricharity's statement is totally erroneous in this post & likening the grading scales to currency conversions. Keith is also totally spot on that a high grading scale doesn't automatically equate to the degree of difficulty being higher.

Saricharity's post is filled with misinformation! First of all, Canada doesn't have a uniform grading scale for public K-12 schools. Every province has its own grading scale. That is why when you are applying to a university in Canada, you must select the province you are from (if Canadian & not intl) to see what the specific admissions requirements will be for you. Also to point out the absolutely obvious, who is doing the grading makes a huge difference on the grade. Standards aren't set by grading scales, but by the rigor and quality of what is taught & what is expected. All of my HS teachers had a minimum of a MA in their specific field & most had a PhD. They were highly trained in the subject they were teaching. They also had to adhere to standards set by the school and to prepare us for standardized testing. They knew how to properly teach a class & how to properly assess the quality of work for it. There was oversight on their work, so they couldn't just hand out an A to the kid they liked or fail the one they didn't. There's way more professionalism since it's literally their profession to teach. That's in contrast to a parent who quite naturally is going to be biased towards their child. Many homeschooling parents don't have any form of credential for the subjects they are teaching, much less higher education in it. Even if a parent tries to be neutral & professional I think they're gonna be emotionally rigged towards wanting their kid to have an A.

I'm an American citizen who has been living in Canada for yrs. First in Vancouver, then we moved to Toronto. I went to an OHS based in Cali that had intl. students, so the college advisers were extremely well versed in the application process to universities around the world, and to grading scale differences. They're also good at assessing the rigor of a class, bc a grade without knowing that is utterly meaningless. I applied to universities both in America & in Canada (and in Austria too, lol).

I was recruited by the university Saricharity started college at, so I'm definitely very familiar with their admission standards for 1st yr students. The college she transferred to is also super easy to get into but the process is different for transferring.
For the sake of her privacy I won't reveal the name of it, but these are the requirements for a HS student from Ontario:

As an applicant from Ontario all you need to earn is a minimum of 65% in 4 university-preparatory courses, and they accept all 4U and 4M level courses. You are not required to take any classes that are outside of your own interests, you can pick whatever you want. Some of the courses are incredibly easy like drama, nutrition, music, communications. You do not have to take the SAT or ACT or any other form of standardized test. You do not have to write any essays or submit any writing samples. You do not have to submit any letters of recommendations or evaluation forms from your teachers. All that you have to do is submit the most basic of applications, $50, & your transcript. If you want to apply for music, it's very mildly more difficult. But literally that process is less intense than the supplement alone that you submit to colleges in the US. For that college you do not have to have any kind of certificate in music. You have to audition & interview but they let you do that by Skype. Your music teacher fills out a short form. If you want to major in STEM you have to have taken pre-calculus. That's it.

Americans applying to Saricharity's school have the same simple process. They only need a 65% in four classes in the 11th and 12th grades.

It's a respectable university but getting into it is literally the opposite of getting into a top college in the US. It has a 93% admit rate, in comparison to schools like U of Chicago, Stanford, Harvard, that admit less than 10%. Her university has had an enrollment crisis for yrs. It's in a very isolated, freezing location that is miserable to be in so nobody wants to be there. The Canadian government pumped millions into the school like a decade ago hoping to revive it. They did hire some really great professors. They tried to get a great president but even the president didn't want to live there. Despite all the efforts fewer & fewer students have enrolled every year & many who did enroll bolted. They have the worst graduation rate of any four-year university in all of North America. Bc of that, they are totally desperate for students. You can get in with ease & they'll also offer you a full scholarship bc they need you more than you need them. The good thing is that it's a great university if you're in need of a 2nd chance. One of my neighbours went there for his 1st yr bc he had a rough time in HS and didn't live up to his potential. He just survived the yr. Once you're in uni it's easy to transfer to another uni in Canada, so that is what he did.

 

[Cimorene]

I think homeschooling could be good if the parents are able to give their child(ren) who is/are being homeschooled a stable, warm and nurturing home environment, and a quality education (with help from additional or outside resources if necessary). I think homeschooling may not practicable both parents (or a single parent) work full-time unless the parents can afford to hire a quality outside educator or the child is an older youth or teenager who is online schooled and able to benefit from online schooling (since at that age depending on the situation they may be able to responsibly stay home alone for long periods of time).

I think if the parents are Christians, it is important that the children be taught the way of the Lord and the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and be taught the Holy Bible.

Some children and youth may have a disability or illness that makes it difficult for them to fully benefit from mainstream public or private school and in that case proper homeschooling may be a good option.

There are almost always ways to get children involved with activities, for example volunteer activities, walking or hiking if feasible, cycling, and cooking; in fact I think if there are the resources and skills (e.g if a parent, relative or friend of the parents or children know how to cook), these activities do not need to be expensive.

A challenge of homeschooling is potential hidden abuse and neglect in the home (whether intentional or not); honestly I think a method that could help monitor this is to require to put a in parts of the apartment/ house (such as the living room) of all homeschooling families but I don't think that would expose all abuse and may not be completely practicable and ethical. Where families often perhaps in frustation react to their child in an inappropriate way, homeschooling may be less ideal since that would create a less good home and learning environment and I think sometimes parents may be less frustrated if they can have a break from parenting. Another challenge is conforming to national or state education standards, which may be helped with the homeschooling parent having a teaching qualification although I do not think this guarauntees successful homeschooling.

Finally, I believe all laws of the land must be followed unless they go against God, so I believe it is important that all children being homeschooled are homeschooled in a lawful manner.

This is a really quality post! I think homeschooling can have some positives especially for kids who are atypical in some way or have health issues. My sister has Asperger's & going to an online school was helpful to her. We never were homeschooled in the sense that our parents were our teachers. All of our teachers had PhDs in their field. I was taught proper science, proper math. I took religious classes too that were really fantastic. All our work was graded by them not by our parents. Our teachers regularly interfaced w us so they got to know us well & would notice if something was wrong. Some homeschooled kids who are taught by their parents are extremely sheltered, to a damaging extent.

I also don't think it's necessary for Christian parents to homeschool their children to teach them about the Bible & bring them up where Christ is the centre of their lives. You can totally accomplish that just as well by sending them to school for an academic education & giving a spiritual education at home.

Finally, I believe all laws of the land must be followed unless they go against God, so I believe it is important that all children being homeschooled are homeschooled in a lawful manner.

I think the problem is that unfortunately in much of N America there's very few laws about homeschooling & very little regulation. If you ever get the chance you should read the book Educated. It's amazing!!!!! It's a memoir this lady who was homeschooled growing up wrote. She was abused psychologically & physically. She was medically neglected, she didn't see a dentist until she was in her late teens didn't get vaccinated until her 20s. Her parents were Christian Fundamentalists who really abused the Bible to justify the mistreatment of their kids & them breaking the law.

There were kids who lived around the world who went to my OHS & some lived in countries where homeschooling was either totally illegal or much more monitored. Like in order to get permission to go to the OHS instead of a "real school" they had to submit the curriculum & get it approved. They had to take national standardized tests, there were home visits. Some people object to that bc they see it as gov. intrusion but I see it as showing responsibility. What it does is ensure that kids truly are receiving a proper education & they are not being abused or neglected.

 

[Cimorene]

Good posts, Ella!

I've always wondered about how grades work for homeschooled kids. Just how objective it is when it's the parents doing all the teaching & the grading. Makes sense that for college admissions they want to know more about grading, textbooks used, on account of that. Definitely makes sense that homeschooled kids should be required to take more standardized tests to get into a good college. Unless they went to an online school where they had real teachers, real grading, not just mommy grading everything.

A lot of prestigious colleges in the US have extra requirements for homeschooled students specifically bc of this. Everybody has to take the SAT or ACT but they make applicants who were homeschooled also take SAT Subject Tests. Or something else that has a standard method for grading like the AP exams.
Homeschooled students have to submit more writing samples in different subjects like in English, Biology, for some colleges. I'm all for that bc I think it's super unfair to everybody else who earned their A's to be competing for a place with somebody who got an A bc their mom is the one giving the grades!!!! That is so corrupt.

Like I wrote in another post for admission to Canadian universities it's a whole different story. For the prestigious universities here you still do have a MUCH more rigorous process. Like I had to write several essays to challenging prompts. I had to have had a high grade in several STEM subjects. I was looking at music at one point too & at my school you have to have certificates in your instrument. At other universities it's a super easy process. You just submit your transcript & a really simple application. That's it. The only extra step is for some degrees like with music you may need to audition but they look for your potential more than your level of skill. Some universities in Canada, especially the ones that only focus on undergrads, have a 90% admission rate so unless you can't spell your name correctly you're gonna get in. Ones that have an enrollment crisis are going to give you a full scholarship too, bc they need bodies to fill up the seats.

 

[ChristianGirl_96]

I agree. I love homeschooling my two. I spend four days a week teaching lessons to both children in my living room. What could be better?