What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[Dannager]

Coveting is wanting something that you don't have. Fantasizing is a way of desiring something you don't have already. You are thinking about having a sexual experience with someone, and since you aren't, it is clear that you are wanting something you don't have.

Perhaps an example would help you understand the distinction. Suppose someone sees an attractive centerfold model. He chooses to fantasize about that model because he is sexually attracted to her. However, were that model in the same room with him he would not actually want to have sex with her because of the situation that might create. It is fantasy. Do you understand the difference yet? Had he actually wanted to have sex with her if he were in the same room, that would be the sort of lust the Bible warns against.

If you become addicted to the internet, then yes.

But if you don't, then it's not an issue, right?

Addiction is a sin, is it not? You are relying on something else, other than God. We should only rely on God, not some addicting force, whether its pornography, drugs, video games, internet, or whatever.

I'm not sure I agree that it's a sin. I do agree that it's not healthy.

 

[Touma]

Perhaps an example would help you understand the distinction. Suppose someone sees an attractive centerfold model. He chooses to fantasize about that model because he is sexually attracted to her. However, were that model in the same room with him he would not actually want to have sex with her because of the situation that might create. It is fantasy. Do you understand the difference yet? Had he actually wanted to have sex with her if he were in the same room, that would be the sort of lust the Bible warns against.

But if you don't, then it's not an issue, right?

I'm not sure I agree that it's a sin. I do agree that it's not healthy.

What does it matter if the person is in the same room, or if they are across the world? You are still thinking impurely about them. You are coveting their body, and coveting a sexual experience with them. You are sinning against them, and against God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, by all means, band-aids are the way to go! Screw counseling and psychotherapy, a wife will fix your self-control problems!

Yep. God is good. He makes it simple for us bubbleheads.

 

[Dannager]

What does it matter if the person is in the same room, or if they are across the world? You are still thinking impurely about them. You are coveting their body, and coveting a sexual experience with them. You are sinning against them, and against God.

Man, did you just completely miss the point? It's that he would choose not to engage in sexual activities with the person were it possible. It's a fantasy, nothing more. It's not the same as the coveting discussed in the Bible, no matter how much you might want it to be.

 

[holo]

Zilam,
if you have such a problem with masturbation, then by all means avoid it. If you can't do it in faith, don't do it. The Lord is able to provide for both you and me. Some people are like that with alcohol. Personally, I couldn't have a cigarette with a clear conscience. For others, meat may be an issue. I know this one guy who feels he has to take his shoes off when he worships, because he's standing on "holy ground" then. More power to him. He knows it's a personal thing between him and the Lord and doesn't force it on me or assume that everybody must do like him.

The fundamental flaw in fundamentalism is that it leaves no room for a personal relationship with the Lord - unless your walk mimics the walk of the fundamentalists around you 100%, you're disagreeing with God. It's NEVER about a difference of opinion, it's always about a difference in obedience. Because God, you see, isn't a person, and certainly not a Father. He's a machine, and he treats you as if you were a machine, too. If you fail to march like the perfect robot you are, then you're out. Good thing our earthly and biological parents treat us better than God ever would!

 

[holo]

The opposite of self-serving is also self-denial. Charity is also self-denial when you give it some proper thought!

Self-denial isnt a good thing in and of itself. Deny yourself of your cup of tea, for example. Does something wonderful happen if you do that? Is it God's will?

Taking up your cross is following after God fully, in obedience, denying one's own selfish desires, which includes the filth of masturbation. ( It is an assinine to compare it with drinking tea, holo...don't make me laugh...actually I feel sickened by that.)

No, it's a very good comparison actually. You could claim that tea is relaxing and that some teas might be healthy. But in reality, it's a perversion. You have exchanged the leaf's natural use on the branch, for something completely unnatural - you pick it off and throw it in hot water! Hardly God's design! The bible is clear about exhanging the natural use of things. It doesn't mention tea, but it's implied.

Taking repose is a normal need, and we need to also do that in a God-honouring way. Everything is the Lord's--even our rest.

So, is drinking tea a Godly way to rest?

you need discipling in righteousness BADLY!

What's that?

Ypu don;t make up the Christian walk as you go.

True. And I certainly wouldn't want YOU to make up MY christian walk.

There is clear instruction in holy living in the Word of God. Read it, obey it and please God. If you really know and love Him.

If you really know and love God, you will see that I am right and you are wrong. I'm not speaking my own mind here, but God's...

 

[bliz]

I'm sorry. What part of my posting did you find unbelievable? That sex could be so great one would praise God for it?
<staff edit>

 

[sentipente]

Well said, holo. We have forgotten Christ's admonishment to focus on the individual instead of on the behavior.

 

[sentipente]

Hi. I'm new here. You sound as if you have been deputized to speak on God's behalf. I am sure that is not the way you intend to come across.

 

[bliz]

When I became a christian, and was still masturbating, I always felt guilty about it, mind you, i never talked about the subject with any christian friends of family members. It just felt wrong. As I prayed about it, i asked God for signs to let me know it was wrong, and i kept getting more guilty each time i did it. Now, I know without a doubt, that is not something that God wants us to do. He'd rather us go to him in prayer when we have sexual urges(and are not married), instead of falling into the cries of the flesh.

Thank you for sharing with us your experience.

Why do your assume that your personal experience will be normative for everyone else? You can know without a doubt that God does not YOU to do something, and I totally respect that and would never urge otherwise. But if there is something that God does not want any of us to do, He spells it out very clearly in Scripture.

Think of this as one of the issues like eating meat that had been offered to idols. The Bible does not tell the eaters to put down their forks or non eaters to chow down - the Bible tells the two groups how to get along with each other.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The opposite of self-serving is also self-denial. Charity is also self-denial when you give it some proper thought!

Self-denial isnt a good thing in and of itself. Deny yourself of your cup of tea, for example. Does something wonderful happen if you do that? Is it God's will?

Self denial is an excellent thing. God is honoured when we use restraint. self-discipline and self-denial, especially in the temptation to sin. Tea, on the other hand, according to your extremely simplistic example---if God told me to lay it down, I am sure I would do just that.

Taking up your cross is following after God fully, in obedience, denying one's own selfish desires, which includes the filth of masturbation. ( It is an assinine to compare it with drinking tea, holo...don't make me laugh...actually I feel sickened by that.)

No, it's a very good comparison actually. You could claim that tea is relaxing and that some teas might be healthy. But in reality, it's a perversion. You have exchanged the leaf's natural use on the branch, for something completely unnatural - you pick it off and throw it in hot water! Hardly God's design! The bible is clear about exhanging the natural use of things. It doesn't mention tea, but it's implied.

How can you minimalize and rationalize such a filthy act before the Lord? Pretty deviant opinion, if you ask me. Where's your regenerated thinking in Christ? I see only carnality in your every response.

Taking repose is a normal need, and we need to also do that in a God-honouring way. Everything is the Lord's--even our rest.

So, is drinking tea a Godly way to rest?

Stupid question, but yes. It is a benign behaviour.

<staff edit>

 

[Floatingaxe]

Hi. I'm new here. You sound as if you have been deputized to speak on God's behalf. I am sure that is not the way you intend to come across.

As born again Christians, we are ALL deputized to speak God's Word! When He lives inside you, you know what He thinks! Especially about blatant wickedness such as the topic at hand.

Conversely, I say to you, it sounds as if many here are deputized by Satan himself to proclaim wickedness as a godly act.

The Word of God talks about the days when people will declare good as evil and evil as good. I do believe we are living in those days.

 

[Gukkor]

As born again Christians, we are ALL deputized to speak God's Word! When He lives inside you, you know what He thinks! Especially about blatant wickedness such as the topic at hand.

Conversely, I say to you, it sounds as if many here are deputized by Satan himself to proclaim wickedness as a godly act.

The Word of God talks about the days when people will declare good as evil and evil as good. I do believe we are living in those days.

Indeed we are, and have been for a long time now. The question is, who's declaring good as good and who's declaring good as evil? I think the truth will be a great surprise to many.

 

[GoodNewsJim]

Sure they can. They might be dishonest about it, but it's not like they can't pull a convincing lie on you.

Hey I won't lie. When I pray to God, I have a massive prayer list in a text file that I add to whenever something major comes up. And I pray to God that list, and I'm not that wordy. I tell God that my prayers for knowing what is right and what is wrong about sexuality are far less important than my prayers for other people's well being, and basically everything that is in my list.

The following is not for a new believer because if you're not careful, you can fall trap to worshiping the rewards God gives you over God himself:

I'm just posting this because people automatically assumed that I'm chaste because I pray to God about sexual things. This is not at all the case.
I've also felt euphoric feelings that were far greater than any sexual feeling I've had without God after certain prayers and requests to God without me looking at porn or even touching myself. God himself blesses me because I pray about this sensitive stuff. I really am going to try and say no more. I'm just saying that I'd have been in the wrong if I let people assume that I'm chaste because I pray for answers. I had to make this clarification post.

To conclude: Pray, pray, pray about it. And be patient too. Let God know you love him, and tell him what type of person you'd like to marry.

 

[holo]

Self denial is an excellent thing. God is honoured when we use restraint. self-discipline and self-denial, especially in the temptation to sin. Tea, on the other hand, according to your extremely simplistic example---if God told me to lay it down, I am sure I would do just that.

Mhm. So, is God honoured when muslims restrain themselves? What about atheists? Or hey, what about christians in the Phillipines who torture themselves at easter to mimic the crucifixion? That surely takes a LOT of self-discipline and self-denial. Is God honoured by that?

How can you minimalize and rationalize such a filthy act before the Lord?

I'm not rationalizing it. There's nothing to rationalize. It's you who are accusing me, not I that rationalize sin.

Pretty deviant opinion, if you ask me. Where's your regenerated thinking in Christ? I see only carnality in your every response.

No wonder. You've never been looking for anything else.

Stupid question, but yes. It is a benign behaviour.

Really? Is it mentioned in the scriptures perhaps? Or is it the fact that it's NOT mentioned in the scriptures? Benign? How? Because it doesn't harm you? Well, how would masturbation harm you?

<staff edit>

 

[holo]

As born again Christians, we are ALL deputized to speak God's Word! When He lives inside you, you know what He thinks! Especially about blatant wickedness such as the topic at hand.

Yes, so why won't you listen?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Floatingaxe
Self denial is an excellent thing. God is honoured when we use restraint. self-discipline and self-denial, especially in the temptation to sin. Tea, on the other hand, according to your extremely simplistic example---if God told me to lay it down, I am sure I would do just that.

Mhm. So, is God honoured when muslims restrain themselves? What about atheists? Or hey, what about christians in the Phillipines who torture themselves at easter to mimic the crucifixion? That surely takes a LOT of self-discipline and self-denial. Is God honoured by that?

Those who do not know God and yet restrain themselves, do it for reasons other than to please God. It pleases God when HIS CHILDREN honour HIM with obedience and restraint.

How can you minimalize and rationalize such a filthy act before the Lord?

I'm not rationalizing it. There's nothing to rationalize. It's you who are accusing me, not I that rationalize sin.

Yes, you attempt to rationalize its acceptability.

<staff edit>

Stupid question, but yes. It is a benign behaviour.

Really? Is it mentioned in the scriptures perhaps? Or is it the fact that it's NOT mentioned in the scriptures? Benign? How? Because it doesn't harm you? Well, how would masturbation harm you?

Masturbation harms you in your spirit. It is risky behaviour, in that it can be a gateway to a major stronghold regarding sexual activity and sins of the mind, and addiction.

It is a form of self-worship. We are not our own. We are bought with a price, and we belong to Jesus Christ. We need to act like it.

<staff edit>

 

[BloodwashedPilgrim]

If I may, with no desire to offend anyone at all, point out that all of you speak of "God's Word" and "God's Will" and such things, but none of you have let Him do the speaking through His Word. Be this a case like Romans 14 (which was at least mentioned by Bliz) then let us not be a stumbling block to a brother by envoking him to do what we know he views as sin. So, for those of you that somehow feel the freedom in Christ to touch without being a sin, you make it a sin by causing brothers to stumble with your words which make it universally acceptable to God. Thank you for the few of you who actually consider the well-being of you spiritual brothers and praise God for you. Perhaps if the emphasis would be taken off of bashing one another and insulting what are only personal viewpoints (I make this claim purely because I have seen no one allow Scripture to make its claims). People claim they know what Scripture means by what it says, but show no evidence of their claims. My question would be, if Scripture speaks of a sexual immorality, which we are to flee, that is a sin against one's own body, would it not be safer to err on the side of caution? The statement keeps being made that God is "clear about all sin" and being He's not "clear about masturbation" it's not a sin. If such a broad phrase as "sexual immorality" is used, isn't it safer as a believer, who should be living to honor and glorify their Lord and Savior, to assume that "sexual immorality" means "everything" instead of "nothing" because it lacks specification? I respect all of my brothers and sisters and appreciate that we can discuss God's desires, but please allow us to do it in a Godly manner, let Him be honored in our speech and interaction and let the body be not divided. At worst, we should agree to disagree and love one another as brothers. I'm sure there is more to say, but I must go. Again, I appreciate you all and love you all as brothers and sisters (and no, I don't mean only those that agree with me, that is the not distinction of a brother), but let us honor our Father even in this very discussion, please. God bless!

Much love in Christ!

 

[Gukkor]

If I may, with no desire to offend anyone at all, point out that all of you speak of "God's Word" and "God's Will" and such things, but none of you have let Him do the speaking through His Word. Be this a case like Romans 14 (which was at least mentioned by Bliz) then let us not be a stumbling block to a brother by envoking him to do what we know he views as sin. So, for those of you that somehow feel the freedom in Christ to touch without being a sin, you make it a sin by causing brothers to stumble with your words which make it universally acceptable to God. Thank you for the few of you who actually consider the well-being of you spiritual brothers and praise God for you. Perhaps if the emphasis would be taken off of bashing one another and insulting what are only personal viewpoints (I make this claim purely because I have seen no one allow Scripture to make its claims). People claim they know what Scripture means by what it says, but show no evidence of their claims. My question would be, if Scripture speaks of a sexual immorality, which we are to flee, that is a sin against one's own body, would it not be safer to err on the side of caution? The statement keeps being made that God is "clear about all sin" and being He's not "clear about masturbation" it's not a sin. If such a broad phrase as "sexual immorality" is used, isn't it safer as a believer, who should be living to honor and glorify their Lord and Savior, to assume that "sexual immorality" means "everything" instead of "nothing" because it lacks specification? I respect all of my brothers and sisters and appreciate that we can discuss God's desires, but please allow us to do it in a Godly manner, let Him be honored in our speech and interaction and let the body be not divided. At worst, we should agree to disagree and love one another as brothers. I'm sure there is more to say, but I must go. Again, I appreciate you all and love you all as brothers and sisters (and no, I don't mean only those that agree with me, that is the not distinction of a brother), but let us honor our Father even in this very discussion, please. God bless!

Much love in Christ!

Agreed (about the direction this has taken, not masturbation). I'm sick of reading (and participating in, for that matter) this endless back-and-forth nonsense. We should either agree to disagree and end this discussion or cease these personal attacks on one another.

 

[holo]

Those who do not know God and yet restrain themselves, do it for reasons other than to please God. It pleases God when HIS CHILDREN honour HIM with obedience and restraint.

Yes. Some honour Him by abstaining from meat, for example. Doesn't make it a universal rule.

Yes, you attempt to rationalize its acceptability.

YOU are the one attacking it. YOU are the one who needs to rationalize your attack on something natural and God-given.
<staff edit>