What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

[Floatingaxe]

There isn't a single non-religious medical organization out there that agrees with you. You are arguing against reality.
No, it's an activity that sexually healthy individuals without the weight of oppressive religious guilt take part in. You're demonizing it because you don't like it, and you don't like it because that's how you were raised and you're really not interested in re-examining those beliefs with a critical eye. That would make you uncomfortable, and you (being human) don't like being uncomfortable.

That's reality.

It is wrong, filthy, and has no benefit. It is not God's design for us. No religiosity in that opinion.

I have no need to re-examine what I know God hates. I am not uncomfortable in the least. I am free of such an encumbering sin, thank God! That's reality!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Sure they can. They might be dishonest about it, but it's not like they can't pull a convincing lie on you.

Sure they can pull the wool over my eyes, but I sense in my spirit by the working of the Holy Spirit that he is the genuine article. I am often right in these things. It's a gift!

 

[Dannager]

It is wrong, filthy, and has no benefit.

And none of these criticisms have any basis in reality.

It is not God's design for us.

You guess.

No religiosity in that opinion.

Any opinion involving your take on God's design is religious in nature.

I have no need to re-examine what I know God hates.

You don't know. You think, but you don't know. And you're unwilling to re-examine your beliefs because doing so would make you uncomfortable. It's okay, that's how it always is. None of us expect anything different. You can try to justify it in your mind all you want. The mental gymnastics are necessary for you, because if you were to ever falter in your routine and acknowledge it, your worldview would suddenly be engulfed in turmoil.

I am not uncomfortable in the least.

No, you're not, because you won't take a critical look at your beliefs. You would be uncomfortable, if you were interested in being intellectually honest, because your religious views don't line up with reality. But you've learned to hand-wave such things away as a defensive mechanism.

I am free of such an encumbering sin, thank God!

Oddly, it's only the ones who don't do it who view it as encumbering. I've always felt that it's relieving. What a weird take on the whole issue you have.

 

[Dannager]

Sure they can pull the wool over my eyes, but I sense in my spirit by the working of the Holy Spirit that he is the genuine article. I am often right in these things. It's a gift!

Ah. Your very own Christian-o-meter. How cute.

Do you think it would stand up to testing?

 

[Floatingaxe]

And none of these criticisms have any basis in reality.

You guess.

Any opinion involving your take on God's design is religious in nature.

You don't know. You think, but you don't know. And you're unwilling to re-examine your beliefs because doing so would make you uncomfortable. It's okay, that's how it always is. None of us expect anything different. You can try to justify it in your mind all you want. The mental gymnastics are necessary for you, because if you were to ever falter in your routine and acknowledge it, your worldview would suddenly be engulfed in turmoil.

No, you're not, because you won't take a critical look at your beliefs. You would be uncomfortable, if you were interested in being intellectually honest, because your religious views don't line up with reality. But you've learned to hand-wave such things away as a defensive mechanism.

Oddly, it's only the ones who don't do it who view it as encumbering. I've always felt that it's relieving. What a weird take on the whole issue you have.

Actually it's the mind of God you are stating as weird, there, Bub. It is how He feels about it. Self discipline is the only way. If you cannot contain your desires of the flesh, then get yourself a wife, thus saith the Lord.

Born again, Spirit-filled believers agree together on this matter.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Ah. Your very own Christian-o-meter. How cute.

Do you think it would stand up to testing?

It has many, many times. I have faith in God and His giftings to me and His kids.

 

[Touma]

Repeat after me, everyone.

Biblical lust and the modern day concept of lust are not the same.

'

Oh so what is the difference? I would think that God's views on lust don't change with time. Lust is lust. If you think improperly about women, its lusting, and you have committed adultery in your heart.

No matter how you all like to sugar coat it, sin is sin. When you touch, 99.9% of the time, you will lust, and thus you are committing sin. Even if you don't sin while masturbating, you still open yourself up for it, or even worse, open you self to addiction of fulfilling the desires of the flesh.

 

[Touma]

It has no benefit at all. It is an activity that the self-centered and undisciplined does. That's reality.

I agree 110%. I have struggled with this problem in the past, and I know that now that I have only room in my life for pleasing God, and not myself, that activities such as masturbation are not pleasing to God, and takes our eyes away from the spiritual and places it on the flesh.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I agree 110%. I have struggled with this problem in the past, and I know that now that I have only room in my life for pleasing God, and not myself, that activities such as masturbation are not pleasing to God, and takes our eyes away from the spiritual and places it on the flesh.

Smart boy! And blessed by God, no doubt!

 

[Dannager]

It has many, many times. I have faith in God and His giftings to me and His kids.

No, I mean real testing. With, you know, controls.

 

[Dannager]

Actually it's the mind of God you are stating as weird, there, Bub.

Nope, that's just what you think.

It is how He feels about it.

No, that's how you feel about it. And you have to believe that God believes the same things you do in order to justify your beliefs. It's the same thing it always is.

Self discipline is the only way. If you cannot contain your desires of the flesh, then get yourself a wife, thus saith the Lord.

Yes, by all means, band-aids are the way to go! Screw counseling and psychotherapy, a wife will fix your self-control problems!

Born again, Spirit-filled believers agree together on this matter.

No, people raised to believe that masturbation is bad believe this.

 

[Dannager]

Oh so what is the difference?

Biblical lust refers to actual desire to take part in sexual acts with a person in close proximity to you. Modern-day lust refers to sexual attraction of any magnitude, and is also applied to fantasizing.

I would think that God's views on lust don't change with time.

God's views don't. The English language does.

Lust is lust.

Except when you're talking about two different things.

If you think improperly about women, its lusting, and you have committed adultery in your heart.

And improperly to you includes fantasizing, right?

No matter how you all like to sugar coat it, sin is sin.

Sure. But not everything you think is sin is actually sin.

When you touch, 99.9% of the time, you will lust, and thus you are committing sin.

No, 99.9% of the time when you touch you aren't lusting in the way it's used in the Bible. You're fantasizing.

Even if you don't sin while masturbating, you still open yourself up for it, or even worse, open you self to addiction of fulfilling the desires of the flesh.

Goodness, heaven forbid we expose ourselves to the potential for addiction. Quick, stop eating and using the internet! People get addicted to those all the time! You're opening yourself up to addiction!

 

[Touma]

No, people raised to believe that masturbation is bad believe this.

False. I was raised in an enviroment where sex, and certainly masturbation was looked upon positively. But because of God's Grace, I have been able to turn from such evil deeds, and rely on on God.

 

[Dannager]

I agree 110%.

Try agreeing 100%, and using that extra 10% to critically examine your closely-held religious beliefs.

I have struggled with this problem in the past, and I know that now that I have only room in my life for pleasing God, and not myself, that activities such as masturbation are not pleasing to God, and takes our eyes away from the spiritual and places it on the flesh.

Wow, so you don't accept back scratches now either, huh?

 

[Dannager]

False. I was raised in an enviroment where sex, and certainly masturbation was looked upon positively. But because of God's Grace, I have been able to turn from such evil deeds, and rely on on God.

And yet somewhere along the way you hit an environment where fundamentalist beliefs were encouraged and all others demonized.

 

[Touma]

Biblical lust refers to actual desire to take part in sexual acts with a person in close proximity to you. Modern-day lust refers to sexual attraction of any magnitude, and is also applied to fantasizing.

God's views don't. The English language does.

Except when you're talking about two different things.

And improperly to you includes fantasizing, right?

Sure. But not everything you think is sin is actually sin.

No, 99.9% of the time when you touch you aren't lusting in the way it's used in the Bible. You're fantasizing.

Goodness, heaven forbid we expose ourselves to the potential for addiction. Quick, stop eating and using the internet! People get addicted to those all the time! You're opening yourself up to addiction!

Well, if its not lust as in 'biblical terms', then it surely is coveting, because you are fantazing about having a sexual experience that you most likely cannot have. Also, eating is necessary for survival, while masturbation and internet usage is not. Perhaps we should take time to get away from the computer and spend it with God.

 

[Touma]

And yet somewhere along the way you hit an environment where fundamentalist beliefs were encouraged and all others demonized.

Again, you are false. You should quit assuming, it does not help your argument. When I became a christian, and was still masturbating, I always felt guilty about it, mind you, i never talked about the subject with any christian friends of family members. It just felt wrong. As I prayed about it, i asked God for signs to let me know it was wrong, and i kept getting more guilty each time i did it. Now, I know without a doubt, that is not something that God wants us to do. He'd rather us go to him in prayer when we have sexual urges(and are not married), instead of falling into the cries of the flesh.

 

[Dannager]

Well, if its not lust as in 'biblical terms', then it surely is coveting,

Coveting involves actual want to have something, which isn't the same as fantasizing. Furthermore, the Bible speaks against coveting your neighbor's wife. There is no commandment against coveting unmarried people.

because you are fantazing about having a sexual experience that you most likely cannot have.

Which is why it's different than the lust described in the Bible.

Also, eating is necessary for survival, while masturbation and internet usage is not.

So internet usage is on the same level of porn, then?

 

[Touma]

Coveting involves actual want to have something, which isn't the same as fantasizing. Furthermore, the Bible speaks against coveting your neighbor's wife. There is no commandment against coveting unmarried people.

Coveting is wanting something that you don't have. Fantasizing is a way of desiring something you don't have already. You are thinking about having a sexual experience with someone, and since you aren't, it is clear that you are wanting something you don't have.

So internet usage is on the same level of porn, then?

If you become addicted to the internet, then yes. Addiction is a sin, is it not? You are relying on something else, other than God. We should only rely on God, not some addicting force, whether its pornography, drugs, video games, internet, or whatever.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Romans 7:7
Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”


Don't covet anything! Least of all anything that isn't yours. Fantasizing falls into that category. Stop playing games with God. He's not playing with you.