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What do you need to know about me...

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InkBlott

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Hi Inkblott, the usual procedure is for a non-Christian to ask a question concerning Christianity. And the majority of opening questions have been formulated by atheists to disparage Christianity. Very few questions are asked where the person is actually interested in becoming a disciple of Christ.

I can safely say that I fit neither profile. I am disappointed in Christianity and have recently gone though a period of rather vehemently disparaging it (the religious paradigm, not Christians themselves), however I am prepared at this time to explore my questions and concerns in a more measured fashion. (It occurs to me that the vehemence in my rhetoric may have been more of a response to my own inward state.) As I said to ephraimanesti, there is no doubt good reason for both sides to be prickly, but perhaps like very careful porcupines we might find a way to stand near to one another.

I am not much of a Bible student, but I do not recall where scripture records a presentation of faith to folks who do not believe in God. For example Paul made a case to non-jews based on their belief in the "unknown God." So it would seem pointless to me to share my faith with an atheist. He or she probably does not actually want to learn about Christianity, what they usually want is to demonstrate how their atheist view is superior. And so since it takes two to tango, sharing the Christian faith with an atheist is usually futile.

One of the first questions I was ever asked on CF was whether I considered myself a bible scholar. I sensed that the person asking was much more the scholar than I and had the sense to reply with a certain degree of humility. Much good recommendation of reading material came my way as a result. :)

I do suggest, however, re-reading Acts 17:13-31.

The early Christians regarded the Epicureans as atheists. The famous "trilemma" you may have encountered if you have done much apologetics is known by some as the Riddle of Epicurus.

I agree that it does take two to tango. I do not come here beating my breast. If I did not feel a particular viewpoint recommends itself above all others, I would not hold it. Obviously. However, I acknowledge that I do not know all things. I am willing to take any viewpoint that I may hold apart point by point and set it beside yours if you are willing to do your part. It may surprise you but I am more interested in how our viewpoints are alike. How deep do we have to dig to find that agreement? It is from that point of agreement that I like to begin questioning why and how they diverge.

Paul found that point of agreement in an engraving on an idol and in a line of poetry. Where might we find it?
 
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InkBlott

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If you do ever look back here, know there is someone who is willing to share what they believe. Sorry that you are going through a tough time.

Thank you, CRfan. It has been a difficult year. I've lost both of my parents, my job and my cat over a 14-month period. It was the death of my father Monday of last week that convinced me I simply must leave this topic, as it did not seem worthwhile to add to my grief in any way.

You have asked a number of challenging questions. I may have to break for lunch before I begin answering them. :)

As far as knowing about you, it would be good to know what your view of sin and God / Jesus is. It would be good to find out if you recognize what sin is.

I actually let go of the more orthodox paradigm that I originally learned of sin and salvation in regard to Christ before I let go of the concept of God. It seemed to me that Christ preached a new way of looking at sin that allowed one to simply step outside of its sphere of influence. The story of the woman caught in adultery is a classic example. His final remark to her to go and sin no more would be odd, knowing human nature, if he did not mean something by it that transcends our normal way of seeing things. I'm not sure I entirely grok it, but it interests me.

I feel disappointed in Christ sometimes, or at the very least in his biographers. Although there is much that feels revelatory and transforming in his teachings, there are also many things that feel ordinary and even harmful (and, ironically, especially harmful in chimeric combination with his finer points). As I mentioned to Van, I have been rather vehemently angry on certain points lately, but I am willing now to step back and examine them more dispassionately.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to know what led you to believing the way you do, so that we can better know what your knowledge level is of what is in the Bible.

I have a degree from Ozark Christian College. I do not consider it a good education, so I am not what I would consider a bible scholar, but I am more than passingly acquainted with its contents.

My current atheism is the result of many years of study and contemplation. I don't know that I can easily tease out the threads as to what led me to believe the way I do. I can remember the last time I prayed, several years ago. It was, as best as I can describe it, a respectful letting go of a concept. I had, in the spirit of the first commandment, released so many idea of God as not God, that I found in the end that I must release them all.

I'd hate for you to feel chased away. Believing the best about people such as yourself is a good thing. I know people have had people who weren't open to what we believe post, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't get on here all the time, but I'd be happy to share. I know going through something traumatic is difficult, but I hope that you will be open to look for answers here. For those who believe, God is a God of comfort as well. I will pray for you now that you will come to know Jesus. Do some investigating of the Bible please. Try reading the book of John and Romans for starters. If you were a Christian, I would recommend reading the book of Psalms right now in your time of tragedy.
Sin is what separates us from God. Repentance, belief in Jesus' sacrifice for sin, and a commitment to the Lord is necessary for salvation. Also, believing in the resurrection.

I find the book of Psalms a little hair-raising in places. It is at least honest in its depiction of the gamut of human emotions and states of mind. In that sense it might be comforting in times of grief as it highlights that even our most difficult thoughts and feelings are common to our fellow human beings.

I'm experiencing a bit of an aversion to handling my bible due to an unpleasant situation a few months ago. The feel of it in my hands is too evocative. I do have it on disc though.

If you do come back on, you could either post on this thread, or a question related to anything brought up here for starters. You can even ask about bad things happening to people and why.

I've actually touched on that point in another topic earlier today. Rather than repeating myself here, why don't I simply link to what I've already done: http://www.christianforums.com/t7390594-3/#post52559317
 
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seashale76

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What do you need to know about me in order to share your faith?

If I can, I'll answer any questions, but I'm interested in what you feel you need to know and why.

To answer your question, I don't need to know anything about you (though I'm always interested in learning about others), nor do I always share anything about my faith in various threads around here (for various reasons). My biggest advice to you is the same I would give to even anyone who is a Christian- it's all well and good to read about Christianity on-line or in books- but it is a faith that must be lived (faith implies action). If you're truly curious, your research will lead you to literally 'come and see' what we're all about. As far as I'm concerned, it's an open invitation for anyone of any creed and none to come visit an Orthodox Church. We don't pressure anyone who visits to convert and any who are interested in converting are asked to truly consider their decision and learn about the faith for a long time before they make a commitment.

I will say that converting was the best thing that happened to me as I had completely written off Christianity. If you'd like to know more about my decision you can click on my blog here at CF.

ETA: As far as I'm concerned- you're welcome around here.
 
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InkBlott

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To answer your question, I don't need to know anything about you (though I'm always interested in learning about others), nor do I always share anything about my faith in various threads around here (for various reasons). My biggest advice to you is the same I would give to even anyone who is a Christian- it's all well and good to read about Christianity on-line or in books- but it is a faith that must be lived (faith implies action). If you're truly curious, your research will lead you to literally 'come and see' what we're all about. As far as I'm concerned, it's an open invitation for anyone of any creed and none to come visit an Orthodox Church. We don't pressure anyone who visits to convert and any who are interested in converting are asked to truly consider their decision and learn about the faith for a long time before they make a commitment.

I will say that converting was the best thing that happened to me as I had completely written off Christianity. If you'd like to know more about my decision you can click on my blog here at CF.

ETA: As far as I'm concerned- you're welcome around here.

Thank you for the welcome seashale76.

I am feeling a bit like a cipher just now. Rather faceless. An open hand into which one of a thousand identical tracts can be thrust.

But I say this gently, as you have cared enough to reply and you have not implied I am perhaps a disingenuous person.

One of the things that used to attract me to Christ was the way he approached people who were the ciphers of their day, often those at risk of being shuffled aside in a seemingly faceless mob. It seems to me that he truly saw them. But I must admit, of late, that the good I once saw in Christ only leaves me wary. It would seem, and my experience goes on bearing it out, that he taught in a few stray words quite the opposite, so that to his followers such a one as I must somehow lack a human face and a human history.

I have come and I have seen and yet I myself remain essentially invisible.
 
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ephraimanesti

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(By the way, not all atheists are skeptics. I think you will find, if you have not already found so, that you will like those of us who are a little better. ;) )
MY DEAR BROTHER,

i already do. i look forward to chatting with you.

Again--sorry for all the pain in your life. May it heal quickly!

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
 
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seashale76

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Thank you for the welcome seashale76.

I am feeling a bit like a cipher just now. Rather faceless. An open hand into which one of a thousand identical tracts can be thrust.

But I say this gently, as you have cared enough to reply and you have not implied I am perhaps a disingenuous person.

One of the things that used to attract me to Christ was the way he approached people who were the ciphers of their day, often those at risk of being shuffled aside in a seemingly faceless mob. It seems to me that he truly saw them. But I must admit, of late, that the good I once saw in Christ only leaves me wary. It would seem, and my experience goes on bearing it out, that he taught in a few stray words quite the opposite, so that to his followers such a one as I must somehow lack a human face and a human history.

I have come and I have seen and yet I myself remain essentially invisible.

I don't happen to think you're disingenuous in the least. Not to mention, I don't consider it my job to convert anyone.

Sometimes, I wonder, how much of this is the effect of the internet on faith? I'm not at all saying this is the case with you, but your post brought it to mind- and I'm making this connection for myself and my own past experiences. Whatever issues of contention I once had were only made worse on religious message boards and the isolation that is the internet.

When one speaks of invisibility and being part of a faceless mob- I take it to mean that you lacked community- and it shouldn't be that way. The Christian should truly be part of a community- and it should be tangible. We are not saved alone- and it is corporate.

I highly recommend Fr. Stephen's blog for your consideration. He covers a lot of very interesting topics (for Orthodox anyway- your mileage may vary- though I feel that even atheists with an interest in religious topics would find it worthwhile to read). He did have a post not too long ago that touched on the topic of communion with God which you may find interesting. Salvation, Prayer and Communion with God Glory to God for All Things
 
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ephraimanesti

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My previous usertitle was "Non-theistic Follower of Christ." I am less enamored of Christ's teachings than I once was, so a change in title was needed.
MY BROTHER,

Might i ask which of our Lord's teachings you are "less enamored" with than previously and why?

This is, of course, a reversal of the usual atheistic pronouncements, which usually go something like, "I respect and admire what he taught but refuse to accept the possibility that he is a god."

So, can i assume that you accept Him as God but don't like what He says?;)

ephraim
 
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InkBlott

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MY DEAR BROTHER,

i already do. i look forward to chatting with you.

Again--sorry for all the pain in your life. May it heal quickly!

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

Thank you.

MY BROTHER,

Might i ask which of our Lord's teachings you are "less enamored" with than previously and why?

This is, of course, a reversal of the usual atheistic pronouncements, which usually go something like, "I respect and admire what he taught but refuse to accept the possibility that he is a god."

So, can i assume that you accept Him as God but don't like what He says?;)

ephraim

Well, not exactly...

I hope I don't make "atheistic pronouncements." I like to show my reasoning. It seems to me that if I cannot or if I will not then I have no right to dump my conclusions on unsuspecting passersby as if they alone meant something.

I find that, though I once very much liked, for instance, that Jesus made of point of touching, speaking to and even asking questions of those who were the outcasts of his society, I find that I can no longer ignore that he at times seemed to be doing nothing more than reshuffling the old ingroups and outgroups. For instance, in Matthew 7, one finds him referring to certain individuals as pigs, wolves and dogs (what I have come to think of as the triune dehumanizing insults after the frequency with which I have seen them used against perceived outsiders). I simply cannot continue to separate the two aspects of his teachings any longer. The tender feelings of hope against hope formed by the former, find themselves folded into the expressions of the latter, so that the hurt from the insults becomes all the more. Love in its purest form is subsequently held hostage by, manipulated by and turned to the service of a particularly wretched despair ruled by the fear of one's fellow human being. What do we do with a Christ who prompts us to see to the log in our own eye in one breath and in nearly the next breath encourages us to think of certain others as if they were not quite human? It would have been better to have been left alone as I for one can now barely wrench any love whatsoever free.

Who will save us now?

Meh. I'm weary. I'm weary of being called a pig, a dog, a wolf, demon possessed and a fool as if I were an enemy to him. In the end, I suppose I am. I suppose I have become his enemy, when I would rather to have had him as a brother.
 
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InkBlott

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I don't happen to think you're disingenuous in the least. Not to mention, I don't consider it my job to convert anyone.

I spoke specifically to the sharing of faith. I did not want the discussion limited only to those who were bent on converting me. :)

Sometimes, I wonder, how much of this is the effect of the internet on faith? I'm not at all saying this is the case with you, but your post brought it to mind- and I'm making this connection for myself and my own past experiences. Whatever issues of contention I once had were only made worse on religious message boards and the isolation that is the internet.

When one speaks of invisibility and being part of a faceless mob- I take it to mean that you lacked community- and it shouldn't be that way. The Christian should truly be part of a community- and it should be tangible. We are not saved alone- and it is corporate.

I came to the internet utterly disillusioned as to the willingness of Christians to extend fellowship. I have been no more encouraged by those I encounter in real life than I have those I encounter here.

One gets the impression that to the churched, my only defining characteristic is that I do not hold to the correct propositions. If I seem receptive, they will hand me a list. If I do not accept, there is nothing more that is needful to know about me. I have stepped beyond the pale of humanity and have become as a swine to the possessors of pearls. I have become a leper whom Christ will never touch, an outsider separated forever, my final separation from those holding pearls the ultimate Christian fantasy.

It seems as though there are two Christs, one made of light and one made of darkness...

I highly recommend Fr. Stephen's blog for your consideration. He covers a lot of very interesting topics (for Orthodox anyway- your mileage may vary- though I feel that even atheists with an interest in religious topics would find it worthwhile to read). He did have a post not too long ago that touched on the topic of communion with God which you may find interesting. Salvation, Prayer and Communion with God Glory to God for All Things

Thank you.
 
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seashale76

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I spoke specifically to the sharing of faith. I did not want the discussion limited only to those who were bent on converting me. :)



I came to the internet utterly disillusioned as to the willingness of Christians to extend fellowship. I have been no more encouraged by those I encounter in real life than I have those I encounter here.

One gets the impression that to the churched, my only defining characteristic is that I do not hold to the correct propositions. If I seem receptive, they will hand me a list. If I do not accept, there is nothing more that is needful to know about me. I have stepped beyond the pale of humanity and have become as a swine to the possessors of pearls. I have become a leper whom Christ will never touch, an outsider separated forever, my final separation from those holding pearls the ultimate Christian fantasy.

It seems as though there are two Christs, one made of light and one made of darkness...



Thank you.

Is it because you like to talk about religious topics, do you think? Some people get very defensive whenever someone who doesn't share their beliefs attempts to talk religion- the Evangelical response tends to ultimately boil down to a turn or burn type of thing. Do you live in the bible belt by any chance? The geographical location plus a very particular type of religious sect that gained popularity in the region, can make a difference in how people respond to you if you're not one of them. I too get various negative responses from some folks who try to convert me too.

Anyway, I dunno, I know quite a few atheists as friends, co-workers, and family members and we get along fine.
 
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InkBlott

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Is it because you like to talk about religious topics, do you think? Some people get very defensive whenever someone who doesn't share their beliefs attempts to talk religion- the Evangelical response tends to ultimately boil down to a turn or burn type of thing. Do you live in the bible belt by any chance? The geographical location plus a very particular type of religious sect that gained popularity in the region, can make a difference in how people respond to you if you're not one of them. I too get various negative responses from some folks who try to convert me too.

Anyway, I dunno, I know quite a few atheists as friends, co-workers, and family members and we get along fine.

Yes. I do live in the Bible belt.

Ack! I'm tired of feeling sorry for myself on account of all of this. And I didn't start this topic with the intention of speaking out against Christianity, so I'm going to stop the anti-apologetics. Please just take it as a peek into my mind on the subject (for what it's worth) and know that it is generally offered up with genuine puzzlement and no small degree of broken-heartedness.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. It does seem that although the initial answer to my question has been more or less "nothing," the reality of this thread is that you and others have talked to me quite nicely, so it isn't as bad as it seemed to sound at first.
 
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ephraimanesti

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I hope I don't make "atheistic pronouncements." I like to show my reasoning. It seems to me that if I cannot or if I will not then I have no right to dump my conclusions on unsuspecting passersby as if they alone meant something.
MY DEAR BROTHER,

You have no idea how refreshing that sounds!

I find that, though I once very much liked, for instance, that Jesus made of point of touching, speaking to and even asking questions of those who were the outcasts of his society, I find that I can no longer ignore that he at times seemed to be doing nothing more than reshuffling the old ingroups and outgroups. For instance, in Matthew 7, one finds him referring to certain individuals as pigs, wolves and dogs (what I have come to think of as the triune dehumanizing insults after the frequency with which I have seen them used against perceived outsiders). I simply cannot continue to separate the two aspects of his teachings any longer. The tender feelings of hope against hope formed by the former, find themselves folded into the expressions of the latter, so that the hurt from the insults becomes all the more.
My brother--you need to rethink this wrong conception you have formed regarding the implications of our Lord's words! They refer to a state of mind and heart, not to racial or cultural differences.

"Dogs" and "swine" refer to heathen peoples, but would also include Jews who do not practice virtue as per the teachings of the Law. According to the Early Church Fathers, dogs are those so immersed in evil that they show no hope of change, while swine are those who habitually live immoral and impure lives in rebellion against God's commandments. The pearls are the inner mysteries of the Christian faith, including Christ's teachings--think "The Pearl of Great Price. These holy things are to be kept from the immoral and unrepentant, not to protect the holy things themselves, for obviously Christ needs no protection and His teachings are safe for all eternity in the heart of the Father and the hearts of believers. Rather, the exhortation is that we protect the faithless people themselves from the condemnation that would result from their holding God's Word in contempt.

The same idea is put forth in the story of the Gentile woman of great faith--Matthew 15:21-28--in which story, having evoked this woman's love and persistent faith, Christ reveals her humility--the greatest of all virtues in God's eyes. Christ's hesitancy was not a lack of compassion, but a conscious means of revealing the virtues of this woman, both to the disciples and onlookers and for her own sake. Humility is lacked by both dogs and swine; by exhibiting it for all to see, our Lord showed her to be neither in God's eyes.

This idea can be seen in the Church itself from the beginning in that non-believers were not allowed access to the deeper teachings of the Church until they became cleansed through Baptism after which, as Paul observed, "Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all."(Colossians3:11)

Love in its purest form is subsequently held hostage by, manipulated by and turned to the service of a particularly wretched despair ruled by the fear of one's fellow human being. What do we do with a Christ who prompts us to see to the log in our own eye in one breath and in nearly the next breath encourages us to think of certain others as if they were not quite human? It would have been better to have been left alone as I for one can now barely wrench any love whatsoever free.
This is heart-breaking to see you so misperceive and misunderstand the TOTALITY of God's Love towards ALL due to a misinterpreting of a few sentences taken out of context whose meaning is diametrically opposed to that which is mistakenly and inaccurately applied to it.

Have you not personally met Jesus yet and seen and experienced His Heart of Love for all for yourself?

Who will save us now?

Meh. I'm weary. I'm weary of being called a pig, a dog, a wolf, demon possessed and a fool as if I were an enemy to him. In the end, I suppose I am. I suppose I have become his enemy, when I would rather to have had him as a brother.
MY DEAR BROTHER--WHERE DID THIS STUFF COME FROM???? Not from the God of Love of Whom we are speaking! Are you perhaps allowing the evil one to play with your mind and turn you from the Light?

REGROUP!--MEET YOUR LORD FACE TO FACE AND SEE HIM AS HE IS!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE HIS BROTHER!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE TRUTH!


A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
 
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InkBlott

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My brother--you need to rethink this wrong conception you have formed regarding the implications of our Lord's words! They refer to a state of mind and heart, not to racial or cultural differences.

Thank you for allowing me the time necessary to consider and find a feel for my reply. I do occasionally rethink my conceptions regarding the gospels. I have been, over the last years and a half, been doing just that. Though I do feel reasonably confident in the conclusions I've reached thus far, I'm not adverse to back-tracking significantly in order to weigh new information or test a new framework.

Perhaps we might begin by recognizing that one's state of mind and heart in any particular circumstance may be rather deeply culturally influenced. That which enlightens one person may not the next, and may in fact appear bizarre, quaint or laughable to those whose culture has not prepared them to be receptive. Failing to be enlightened on demand does not render one less than human but surely marks that one as human, wouldn't you agree?

"Dogs" and "swine" refer to heathen peoples, but would also include Jews who do not practice virtue as per the teachings of the Law. According to the Early Church Fathers, dogs are those so immersed in evil that they show no hope of change, while swine are those who habitually live immoral and impure lives in rebellion against God's commandments. The pearls are the inner mysteries of the Christian faith, including Christ's teachings--think "The Pearl of Great Price. These holy things are to be kept from the immoral and unrepentant, not to protect the holy things themselves, for obviously Christ needs no protection and His teachings are safe for all eternity in the heart of the Father and the hearts of believers. Rather, the exhortation is that we protect the faithless people themselves from the condemnation that would result from their holding God's Word in contempt.

Let me say that I find your explanation less distressing than some I have read. There is a seed of hope in it.

It has been suggested to me on numerous occasions that my distress at a presumed Christ drawing a line between the (fully human) possessors of pearls and those whom he calls dogs and swine, is that I have somehow misunderstood where he was drawing that line--that if I were to understand who actually falls below that line and how unlike the possessors of pearls they truly are, I would be able to accept the teaching.

It is a human proclivity to draw such lines and a human proclivity to shift them as circumstances dictate. Surely we do not need a Christ to teach us this. There is nothing profound, nothing transcendent, in the drawing of lines and the dehumanizing of those who fall below the expedient line of the moment--those whom we can deem as other.

The proclivity itself, common to mankind yet culturally shaped, produces a particular two-edged injustice that keeps the possessor of pearls in his place as surely as it keeps the presumptive dogs and pigs in theirs. There is a severe cost in grokking this. Doing so will surely alienate one from one's own culture and all of the manufactured comforts of that culture, making of one a stranger in a strange land, a wanderer with no place to lay one's head. Yet, it does make all of the human race into one's family, even those chained raving to tombstones, those caught in the act of adultery, those ritually unclean and therefore ritually infectious.

Perhaps it is a fault in me that I have no time for mysteries that must be spoken rather than lived, that once grasped can somehow be held secret as if we would not involuntarily shine with them.

"The nature of things is measured by the interior disposition of the soul; that is, the kind of person one is will determine what one thinks of others...One who has attained a genuine prayer and love no longer puts things in categories. He does not separate the righteous from the sinners, but loves all equally and does not judge them, just as God gives the sun to shine and the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust." --by Nikitas Stethatos, from the Philokalia

*thank you for the quote teshi*

The same idea is put forth in the story of the Gentile woman of great faith--Matthew 15:21-28--in which story, having evoked this woman's love and persistent faith, Christ reveals her humility--the greatest of all virtues in God's eyes. Christ's hesitancy was not a lack of compassion, but a conscious means of revealing the virtues of this woman, both to the disciples and onlookers and for her own sake. Humility is lacked by both dogs and swine; by exhibiting it for all to see, our Lord showed her to be neither in God's eyes.

Interesting. When I read this story, I don't see her as humble so much as clever in driving home her point. My sense is that Jesus was "got" and didn't much mind it. It fact, I think it delighted him, which goes a way toward softening my opinion of him.

This idea can be seen in the Church itself from the beginning in that non-believers were not allowed access to the deeper teachings of the Church until they became cleansed through Baptism after which, as Paul observed, "Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all."(Colossians3:11)

Again, I am not enamored with the idea of initiations and secret teachings. If Christianity does not work right down to one's fingertips, then it needs to be re-examined in the light of day.
 
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InkBlott

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This is heart-breaking to see you so misperceive and misunderstand the TOTALITY of God's Love towards ALL due to a misinterpreting of a few sentences taken out of context whose meaning is diametrically opposed to that which is mistakenly and inaccurately applied to it.

I have to live day to day with the common perception of this passage that allows those who disagree with my theology to call me dehumanizing names and subject me to the real-life consequences of being thus dehumanized. It gives me no comfort to imagine that the passing down of pure, secret teachings is taking place in an unseen citadel of holiness amongst the properly initiated so that I won't be inadvertently condemned by them.

He should not have said what he said in Matthew 7. He should not have told the stories of separating out mankind, as in Matthew 25, in the manner in which he did. These stories have alienated human against human in his name. It breaks my heart. I cannot tell you how much. I have twisted my mind into knots searching for an apologetic that will allow me to trust the gospels again.

Have you not personally met Jesus yet and seen and experienced His Heart of Love for all for yourself?

I take it from your font that you want me to be sure to read this part.

I have met what seems to me to be the partial Christ of the gospels. I have met a Christ who can be profound one minute yet culturally bound and, it would seem, even a little afraid of his own message the next. I have met a Christ upon whom such depths of human affect have been heaped that his less than perfect revelation seems to be a danger. I do not know how to respond to him, at this juncture, except to be extremely cautious.

MY DEAR BROTHER--WHERE DID THIS STUFF COME FROM???? Not from the God of Love of Whom we are speaking! Are you perhaps allowing the evil one to play with your mind and turn you from the Light?

I am not sure I understand the question.

REGROUP!--MEET YOUR LORD FACE TO FACE AND SEE HIM AS HE IS!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE HIS BROTHER!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE TRUTH!

I hope I am happy to regroup. I do want to see things as they truly are, or as close as my human perceptions and thought processes allow.

Your wording seem to convey a sense of urgency. I feel this is important, but not urgent. My life will of necessity bleed into that of those who will come after me. I can only hope to carry on my little part with as much integrity as I can muster.

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

I hope the fact that I have described my thoughts in strong terms has not unduly distressed you (or placed me on the wrong side of a CF rule). If we cannot place the hard questions then there is little hope of understanding one another, little hope of enlightenment.

Peace.
 
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PT Calvinist

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I know I'm late to the party, but my personal study on Matthew 7:6 leads me to believe that the swine and dogs are symbolic to stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the gospel who are unworthy to have it preached unto them.
A pearl, represents the Gospel. In all logical sense, it wouldn't be reasonable to preach the Gospel, "cast the pearl", before Stiff-necked and stubborn enemies of the Gospel.
 
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