What do we do to prevent another Las Vegas?

[dogs4thewin]

So we should force Everyone to be one faith then?

She did not say that she said that she did not know how people made it through life without God.

 

[mark46]

I oppose a gun registry, but WOULD support a tax that would help with mental health.

Having a gun registry would help law enforcement catch criminals.
You have the right to a gun in your home. It does not follow that guns should not be registered so that illegal use outside the home can be tracked and reduced.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So if it is poverty and bad living conditions that lead us to dangerous crime-infested areas in the US but not the availability of guns, then how do we solve the problem?

And, I've seen New Orleans public housing when I lived in New Orleans. It is awful. And often times they are literally around the corner from opulence and wealth. There was one just outside the Garden District that was terrifying.

I think what we see in America among Conservatives (especially those espousing Christian values) is a love of money over people and a love of "living by the sword". Sure a lot of them mouth the mealy mouthed words of "sanctity of life" but that's only so that they can denigrate women who find themselves in untenable situations and making a horrible choice of abortion. Sure they care for the poor with their charities, but only insofar as it gives them a chance to pick and choose who the "deserving poor" are and so long as those deserving poor come to their way of belief.

It's safer when one knows one is doing God's work denigrating the poor by blaming them for their lot and assuming all poor people are lazy. It's safer to think one can be a sure-shot and take out the bad guy like in an action movie.

Sanctity of life? Nah, that isn't our gig here in the USA. Judgement and Mammon are our only gods.

It is not about "deserving poor" in a bad way it is about helping v enabling them to remain poor.. Helping is one thing that I nor anyone I know has an issue with; on the other hand ENABLING people to remain poor is something different. People fall on hard times; people even make mistakes and need a hand up to change, but that have to WANT to change and do their part to change not just assume that others will keep allowing them to stay where they are and not working to better themselves.

 

[mark46]

Besides, this latest pervert bought 33 weapons this last year, I think, and had a background check for each one... so why didn't the government at least pay him a visit?

Please provide evidence of a centralized government registry of gun sales.

You are afraid of the police and the FBI. Do you oppose nationwide crime databases, and databases of all that travel into the US to help law enforcement track foreign terrorists.

Perhaps you are one of the 3% who owns half the guns in the US. I am more afraid of this group.

I submit that law enforcement is aided by being able to know where guns are and to track their use.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Having a gun registry would help law enforcement catch criminals.
You have the right to a gun in your home. It does not follow that guns should not be registered so that illegal use outside the home can be tracked and reduced.

It would help if people would report their guns stolen like cars. Just because a gun I own was used in a particular crime that does not mean that I was the one behind the trigger. Just like just because my car was involved in a hit and run or was seen leaving the scene of a suspected crime does not mean that I was driving or even that I knew it happened.

 

[Obliquinaut]

It is not about "deserving poor" in a bad way it is about helping v enabling them to remain poor.

.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. I apologize but I'm not buying it. You see, too many Conservative voters see poor people as largely made up of a population of people whom they think "want" to be poor.

It's far too convenient. I mean no personal offense to you per se, but I honestly don't believe when I hear conservative Christians talk about how the poor are "enabled" to live like that that they really actually care about poverty but moreso about their own treasure.

People fall on hard times; people even make mistakes and need a hand up to change, but that have to WANT to change and do their part to change not just assume that others will keep allowing them to stay where they are and not working to better themselves.

Yeah, this. This is exactly what I see all too often. If poverty is such a great gig why don't more of you guys give up and become "poor"? Hint: it's not because all Conservatives are just naturally hard workers...no it's because all y'all know exactly how awful that life is. There are vanishingly few Americans who actually WANT to live like that. They aren't looking for a way to game the system to live on a subsistance dole.

Sure there may be a small number. But gimme a break, America treats the poor worse than we treat our dogs. And we KNOW IT. We fight tooth and nail for any more money taken from our paychecks by Uncle Sam for any number of "excuses".

We decided long ago that we want our GUNS and our MONEY. And anything that even marginally threatened it was anathema. We can fix our society and make it a better place for everyone, we're the richest nation on earth. There are plenty of societies that have all the freedoms we have and enjoy a better standard of living across the board.

I've been to many of those places and worked with those people and trust me: western Europe is not a hellscape of horror.

But America is special. We neeeeeed our guns to protect our money.

We've taken up the sword so we can LIVE by it. And after a while that's exactly how we all die.

 

[mark46]

THE NRA IS RIGHT - BANNING MACHINE GUNS IS ONLY THE FIRST STEP

There is need for much more regulation. And there is a need for the left to be very, very clear that citizens have the right to bear arms in their homes, and the right to have weapons for hunting and sport.

I would note that the number of guns is indeed related to the amount of gun violence. But that isn't the issue. We need a society that accepts a homeowner's right of protection, and at the same time supports those who protect us in public places.

1) Even the NRA used to support the banning of semi-autoimatic weapons. The 1994 act should be brought back.

2) The size of magazines should be limited.

3) Guns should registered.

4) A background check and waiting period should be in place, with data going into a central data base.

5) As a society, we should understand the National Guard is our citizen militia. Individual do NOT have the right to own military grade weapons.

6) Local and state governments should have the right to add further regulations of guns in the public space. Some states will allow folks to walk into MacDonald's a put a gun on their table. Others won't. Gin ownership and attitudes are very different by state. There are many cultural differences. Folks in Wyoming are fine with having a holstered gun in town, California not so much. And that's fine. Some jurisdictions might require training before one is allowed to carry a gun outside their home. This might be considered silly in other states.

7) Treating mental illness is a noble idea. Support community mental health centers. Require that insurance policies cover mental illness. There is a lot that we can do. Trying to make sure that someone who buys and/or guns to be mentally stable is a waste of money and effort. Teaching children how to deal with conflict is a better use of funds.

 

[dogs4thewin]

.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. I apologize but I'm not buying it. You see, too many Conservative voters see poor people as largely made up of a population of people whom they think "want" to be poor.

It's far too convenient. I mean no personal offense to you per se, but I honestly don't believe when I hear conservative Christians talk about how the poor are "enabled" to live like that that they really actually care about poverty but moreso about their own treasure.



Yeah, this. This is exactly what I see all too often. If poverty is such a great gig why don't more of you guys give up and become "poor"? Hint: it's not because all Conservatives are just naturally hard workers...no it's because all y'all know exactly how awful that life is. There are vanishingly few Americans who actually WANT to live like that. They aren't looking for a way to game the system to live on a subsistance dole.

Sure there may be a small number. But gimme a break, America treats the poor worse than we treat our dogs. And we KNOW IT. We fight tooth and nail for any more money taken from our paychecks by Uncle Sam for any number of "excuses".

We decided long ago that we want our GUNS and our MONEY. And anything that even marginally threatened it was anathema. We can fix our society and make it a better place for everyone, we're the richest nation on earth. There are plenty of societies that have all the freedoms we have and enjoy a better standard of living across the board.

I've been to many of those places and worked with those people and trust me: western Europe is not a hellscape of horror.

But America is special. We neeeeeed our guns to protect our money.

We've taken up the sword so we can LIVE by it. And after a while that's exactly how we all die.

I believe that government help that is means tested should be handled at the state or better yet local level. People are more likely to know people and know how they got in that situation and frankly whether or not they are willing to change and better themselves. I will say this we need to do something about the people in the middle ( make too much for help, but not enough to live) It is like when you make a certain amount you are suddenly dropped from the roles (yet, often that amount is small. For the record I HAVE been on SSI and so KNOW how annoying it can be for people who need it and are not gaming the system.

 

[dogs4thewin]

THE NRA IS RIGHT - BANNING MACHINE GUNS IS ONLY THE FIRST STEP

There is need for much more regulation. And there is a need for the left to be very, very clear that citizens have the right to bear arms in their homes, and the right to have weapons for hunting and sport.

I would note that the number of guns is indeed related to the amount of gun violence. But that isn't the issue. We need a society that accepts a homeowner's right of protection, and at the same time supports those who protect us in public places.

1) Even the NRA used to support the banning of semi-autoimatic weapons. The 1994 act should be brought back.

2) The size of magazines should be limited.

3) Guns should registered.

4) A background check and waiting period should be in place, with data going into a central data base.

5) As a society, we should understand the National Guard is our citizen militia. Individual do NOT have the right to own military grade weapons.

6) Local and state governments should have the right to add further regulations of guns in the public space. Some states will allow folks to walk into MacDonald's a put a gun on their table. Others won't. Gin ownership and attitudes are very different by state. There are many cultural differences. Folks in Wyoming are fine with having a holstered gun in town, California not so much. And that's fine. Some jurisdictions might require training before one is allowed to carry a gun outside their home. This might be considered silly in other states.

7) Treating mental illness is a noble idea. Support community mental health centers. Require that insurance policies cover mental illness. There is a lot that we can do. Trying to make sure that someone who buys and/or guns to be mentally stable is a waste of money and effort. Teaching children how to deal with conflict is a better use of funds.

You know talking about guns in the home that is where most toddlers shoot which seem to be a fairly big talking point for gun control.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Someone tell me how many overall shootings are honest to goodness random ( in comparison to the number that happen.

 

[mark46]

.
Sure there may be a small number. But gimme a break, America treats the poor worse than we treat our dogs.

I agree with your other comments, and that society should spend much more on serving the weak among us.

The poor in the US are treated better than the poor in most countries. And yes, there are obvious examples where some European countries do much better. We might check out how much our poor participates in our society and what goods they have. Our poor have phones, televisions, music, and probably a car. Our poor even have healthcare. [Our lower middle class does not].

So, sure, there is lots more that we should do for the poor and the lower middle class (who working poor).
Unfortunately, there are those who believe that deserve a lot more than the poor, and perceive that they do not have what they deserve.

 

[mark46]

You know talking about guns in the home that is where most toddlers shoot which seem to be a fairly big talking point for gun control.

Protecting toddlers in the home is great idea, but in the end, such laws will not be passed. Liberals cannot pass legislation to force gun owners to protect their children. That's just the way it is.

 

[mark46]

Someone tell me how many overall shootings are honest to goodness random ( in comparison to the number that happen.

I have no idea what you mean.

I do know that the as smaller the number of guns in a state, the lower the number of gun deaths.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Protecting toddlers in the home is great idea, but in the end, such laws will not be passed. Liberals cannot pass legislation to force gun owners to protect their children. That's just the way it is.

Again, taking those out then how many shootings are COMPLETELY random? Remember, there ARE punishments for parents whose toddlers harm others with a gun already.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have no idea what you mean.

I do know that the as smaller the number of guns in a state, the lower the number of gun deaths.

Truly random meaning not related to EITHER gang violence OR some sort of other criminal activity such as a burglary or robbery gone bad? How often is it that LITERALLY someone walks on the street and just shoots or that someone literally walks into somewhere ( without some other criminal motive and just shoots someone?

 

[jardiniere]

Again, taking those out then how many shootings are COMPLETELY random? Remember, there ARE punishments for parents whose toddlers harm others with a gun already.

I had to go look it up, it was a statement of fact, and I was unsure if it was correct. I searched on: "ARE there punishments for parents whose kids harm others with a gun" and came up with a Slate article"

Gun makers enjoy extraordinary freedom from liability when gun accidents occur, and that means gun owners bear most of the legal burden. Twenty-eight states have what are known as “child access prevention” laws, which impose criminal liability on adults who negligently allow kids to have access to their guns. States with these CAP laws show reductions in both accidental shootings and child suicides. But as Justin Peters has argued many times here at Slate, these CAP laws are almost never enforced, in part because they are vague, and in part because prosecutors have no heart to punish parents who have already suffered unimaginable pain when their child killed another child, often their own.

Another article


Until grieving parents are prosecuted under these laws, it's sort of useless having them. Yes, it's terrible that their kid died. Yes, they are to blame, as much as any murderer. Leaving unsecured guns where kids can get at them should be a federal felony with consequences.

 

[Obliquinaut]

I believe that government help that is means tested should be handled at the state or better yet local level. People are more likely to know people and know how they got in that situation and frankly whether or not they are willing to change and better themselves.

And again we are obsessing on the "Deserving" part. It sounds like a truly inefficient method that will cost more in administrative costs than the larger overall welfare system.

Part of the reason charity is unable to keep up with need is that it is fragmented and not centrally organized of drawing from a very large pool of money as a national system would be.

And again, why do Americans have such a TOUGH TIME doing welfare? No other nation on earth seems to have as much trouble with the concept of welfare as the USA.

For the record I HAVE been on SSI and so KNOW how annoying it can be for people who need it and are not gaming the system.

The other day I was at the grocery store and behind a young mother getting food on WIC. The store had her fill out various forms for every single item. It was almost as if the system was set up to make sure the person receiving aid was made to feel as OBVIOUS and EXPOSED and to ensure those people in line behind them were made annoyed by being near a poor person. It made me angry that we treat the poor as if, no matter who they are, they are to be publically pilloried for their need.

It scares the living daylights out of me that we as a nation are unable to understand poverty in a humane and decent way. Either that or perhaps I am naive and refuse to see most of my fellow Americans as inherently dishonest people who want to scam me out of money.

Most of the time the people who are doing the REAL scam on me are those who make far more money than I'll ever see. Yet we hold our obloquy for the poorest among us.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I had to go look it up, it was a statement of fact, and I was unsure if it was correct. I searched on: "ARE there punishments for parents whose kids harm others with a gun" and came up with a Slate article"



Another article


Until grieving parents are prosecuted under these laws, it's sort of useless having them. Yes, it's terrible that their kid died. Yes, they are to blame, as much as any murderer. Leaving unsecured guns where kids can get at them should be a federal felony with consequences.

The trouble is that that is NOT murder under the law. Involuntary manslaughter is what it is NOT murder just because someone died at the hands of another does NOT make it murder under the law.

 

[drjean]

Well, of course people in general are afraid of those with firearms, and regardless of the #fakenews agenda to make all snowflakes be afraid of good government, the truth is the truth. Where there are more firearms being carried by law abiding citizen patriots, there are fewer casualties. Not believing this doesn't make it untrue.

The REAL TRUTH IS the solution to mass murders is to help the mass murderers find Jesus first.

 

[Aldebaran]

We had a crazy guy in Melbourne last year who killed several people when he ran his car into a pedestrian mall.........now, give him Stephen Paddock’s arsenal and an elevated position to shoot from...?

This supports the idea that if a person doesn't have a gun to do his killing, he will find something else to do it with.