What do we do to prevent another Las Vegas?

[Obliquinaut]

There is literally the option where we shrug, mourn, bury our dead and get up the next day and continue on. We've been doing it for a very long time now.

And yet it doesn't happen with nearly the frequency in any other developed country on earth.

IF we are to resign ourselves to this as "just normal" then I'm begging our government officials to STOP blathering on about "prayers and condolences" to the victims: IF WE DON'T ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THEM ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING THEN DON'T MOUTH THE WORDS!

 

[dgiharris]

Clarify what you mean by "same way it works in the rest of the developed world."
.

You asked a question: "How do you propose to keep the populace safe from criminals who obtain firearms through illegal means?"

THe answer was "Same way that other countries around the world keep their citizens safe"

I don't know why that is a confusing answer to you. UK, South Korea, Japan, Australia etc all manage to have way lower gun deaths than the US...

Also, the reason why people in the US for the most part follow the law is "not" because we fear our neighbors have guns and will kill us if we attempt to break into their houses...

No.

Fundamentally we are a moral society composed of a moral citizenry. That is the only way civilization can exist. It does not exist under "threat" that the State and/or armed populace will kill you if you do not follow the law...

Basically, the argument that essentially questions, "How do you propose to keep the populace safe from criminals who obtain firearms through illegal means?" is an argument that infers that the only way the populace is made safe is because the populace is armed.... And that is not true.

When an armed criminal decides to rob a bank, is it "armed citizens" who handle the situation or do we just call the police?

In order to have a decent gun debate we have to have a decent understanding of reality and what really happens in this country as far as crime vs law enforcement is concerned.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Are Mass Shootings Uniquely American?

Are Mass Shootings Uniquely American? | The Resurgent

 

[wing2000]

John McCain, a turncoat Republican /socialist

LOL

 

[dogs4thewin]

Of the large number of gun deaths in the USA: how many are people defending themselves from criminals? (Honest question.)



America has among the highest per capita rates of gun deaths and the highest rate of gun ownership of any country in the Developed world. So if the ownership of guns leads to more safety we must understand how many of those gun deaths are truly cases of "defending against criminals" (and I don't mean one criminal shooting another criminal).

Keep in mind there are two sort of levels of guns saving lives. One is directly in other words I shoot someone because they are at the moment threatening me or others around me. The other I consider to be indirectly that is to say that the criminal never tries because they know there is a good chance that someone else is armed. This second one really cannot be shown through stats.

 

[wing2000]

While I think we should pass legislation to reduce the killing capability of would be mass murderers (butt stocks, magazine size, etc) the vast majority of gun deaths in American won't be solved by such measures...

-potential suicide victims
-abused women
- young men at risk (gangs, etc)


We save lives by focusing on a range of tactics to protect the different kinds of potential victims and reforming potential killers, not from sweeping bans focused on the guns themselves.

Opinion | I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

 

[Hank77]

Owning a firearm is a luxury. Would I be frustrated? Sure. Would I lose sleep over it? Not a wink.

To me, and many others, guns are necessary tools, not luxuries. You don't need many but those you have are designed to suit the particular job you need to do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

IF WE DON'T ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THEM ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING THEN DON'T MOUTH THE WORDS!

You do know, right, that the government does not care ?

 

[dogs4thewin]

To me, and many others, guns are necessary tools, not luxuries. You don't need many but those you have are designed to suit the particular job you need to do.

I guess it depends. I mean you DO have to buy guns.

 

[redleghunter]

There was an article I read one time (written supposedly by a mental health expert) that about 70% or more require therapy themselves. That's not very comforting knowing your shrink might have more loose screws than you...

Yes my information is a bit more subjective I might add. It deals with knowing several mental health professionals throughout a very long Army career. Most admitted they got into the field to figure out how to help themselves.

 

[PeachyKeane]

You asked a question: "How do you propose to keep the populace safe from criminals who obtain firearms through illegal means?"

THe answer was "Same way that other countries around the world keep their citizens safe"

I don't know why that is a confusing answer to you. UK, South Korea, Japan, Australia etc all manage to have way lower gun deaths than the US...

Also, the reason why people in the US for the most part follow the law is "not" because we fear our neighbors have guns and will kill us if we attempt to break into their houses...

No.

Fundamentally we are a moral society composed of a moral citizenry. That is the only way civilization can exist. It does not exist under "threat" that the State and/or armed populace will kill you if you do not follow the law...

Basically, the argument that essentially questions, "How do you propose to keep the populace safe from criminals who obtain firearms through illegal means?" is an argument that infers that the only way the populace is made safe is because the populace is armed.... And that is not true.

When an armed criminal decides to rob a bank, is it "armed citizens" who handle the situation or do we just call the police?

In order to have a decent gun debate we have to have a decent understanding of reality and what really happens in this country as far as crime vs law enforcement is concerned.

You forget one important caveat. The US is different from all of those countries. Our national psyche is different.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The problem is who is going to be determining what/who is/isn't mental issues/ill? If it's like everything else Government does it will be by people who already have issues declaring sane people are the ones with issues...

Yes, it is notorious how much the government gets things wrong, but still tells people what they need, and most all the country simply accepts it without ever finding out the truth.

Mental health experts?

Them too. There's no such thing, honestly. (well, a few rare individuals perhaps)

Perhaps but most of them are imbalanced too!

Right.

There was an article I read one time (written supposedly by a mental health expert) that about 70% or more require therapy themselves. That's not very comforting knowing your shrink might have more loose screws than you...

Actually, once people find out that they have been lied to/ misled/ harmed,
they can pray and start seeking true help and recovery. True, it hardly ever happens , but it is still possible to find out the truth even today.

Yes my information is a bit more subjective I might add. It deals with knowing several mental health professionals throughout a very long Army career. Most admitted they got into the field to figure out how to help themselves.

This is true not just of so-called "mental health" professionals, but of all professionals, and it is devastating and embarrassing to find out how wrong they are, after someone has trusted them (and was told to trust them) all their life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You forget one important caveat. The US is different from all of those countries. Our national psyche is different.

Does that matter ? It is still a wicked country / wicked corporations/ wicked systems thoughout government and business and religion.

 

[Armoured]

Clarify what you mean by "same way it works in the rest of the developed world."

Australia, for example, isn't the post apocalyptic nightmare of criminals run amok the "we need guns for self defence!" proponents would seem to believe is inevitable.

As for possessing a firearm, you're right, it doesn't render one invulnerable to criminals.

And yet it's "I need a gun for self defence against criminals!" That seems to be the fundamental argument that keeps coming up

There were people armed with pistols in Las Vegas, and it didn't do them any good. In the vast majority of terrorist attacks with firearms, however, having a firearm and knowing how to use it well could put a stop to an attack quicker than not having a firearm.

Can you name single instance of a terrorist attack being thwarted by an armed bystander?

In incidents where people trained with firearms are on the scene, such incidents are typically resolved shortly after they fire back on the attacker.

...for instance?

 

[Armoured]

Which if you study American history, you should know that it's the result of the American revolution. Better start inventing a time machine then.

It would be nice if more Americans studied the actual historical facts of that bit of their history, instead of the "plucky minutemen fighting tyranny with nothing more than determination" myth.

Yes, yes, I know that countries need their founding mythologies and all, but it gets frustrating when trying to talk to someone about real world facts who thinks The Patriot was a documentary and Red Dawn is an instructional video.

 

[dgiharris]

You forget one important caveat. The US is different from all of those countries. Our national psyche is different.

If our psyche is "so different" than why does the rest of the world like our movies?

Science is science and human beings are human beings.

UK and Australia are very close to America in terms of being "Western" and Progressive. So don't try to make it out like I'm trying to compare the US to Saudi Arabia...

UK and Australia are so close to America that their comedians and musicians can come over here and make a killing...

Just saying. Science is Science and data is data and human beings are human beings. So this notion that we can just disregard the UK and Australia because they are "different" is not very wise.

 

[Armoured]

Putting things in perspective - there are tens of millions of firearm owners in the US. 99.999% do not go on shooting sprees. Ideally, 100% is best. But, we live in the real world, where nothing is absolutely 100% perfect. 99.999% isn't perfect, but it is as close as one should expect.

Why are firearms the only issue you accept these sorts of stats as "the price of doing business"? Again, consider Kinder Surprises? Buckyballs? Lawn Darts?

 

[Armoured]

You forget one important caveat. The US is different from all of those countries. Our national psyche is different.

I see this sort of claim a lot. I never see it explained, though...

 

[super animator]

**

Do you have a counter argument?

 

[Armoured]

Do you have a counter argument?

Counter argument to what?