what do scientists think about fate and destiny

[Ophiolite]

"that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."

Could you please indulge me as to what is specifically wrong here that you wont commit to?

Without context the clause is word salad.

Taken in isolation the clause is nonsense. For example, I know that I should scrape the grass off the front drive. I determined this without any science whatsoever. I believe the BBC will broadcast every match at next years Wimbledon Championships. I did not use science to establish that belief. And yet I have no problem with expressing that knowledge and holding that belief without any scientific input and would be comfortable arguing the case with the shade of Huxley.

That's what you get when your provide assertions sans context.

"that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which has no quality of being honest or having strong moral principles for professing to know or believe."

Again, you offer a clause without context and (apparently) expect a cogent answer. That's rather silly.

In isolation it seems replete with more nonsense.
1. I don't attribute the quality of honesty to knowledge.
2. I don't attribute the quality of moral principles to knowledge.
3. The clause doesn't even parse properly.
3. Consequently the statement, for me, has no semantic content.
[4. I would be mildly interested to hear on what basis you think these qualities might logically be so applied.]

 

[the iconoclast]

Without context the clause is word salad.

Taken in isolation the clause is nonsense. For example, I know that I should scrape the grass off the front drive. I determined this without any science whatsoever. I believe the BBC will broadcast every match at next years Wimbledon Championships. I did not use science to establish that belief. And yet I have no problem with expressing that knowledge and holding that belief without any scientific input and would be comfortable arguing the case with the shade of Huxley.

That's what you get when your provide assertions sans context.

Hey hey my dear

I like your answer. I like it alot and it may come in handy later on.

Lets say the context is The God of Abraham.

How would you reply?

Again, you offer a clause without context and (apparently) expect a cogent answer. That's rather silly.

In isolation it seems replete with more nonsense.
1. I don't attribute the quality of honesty to knowledge.
2. I don't attribute the quality of moral principles to knowledge.
3. The clause doesn't even parse properly.
3. Consequently the statement, for me, has no semantic content.
[4. I would be mildly interested to hear on what basis you think these qualities might logically be so applied.]

I altered the statement to include the meaning of integrity. How does integrity factor in when we consider context or, when there was no context, how did integrity aid your response?

Cheers

 

[Tanj]

what do scientists think about fate and destiny

As a scientist, I don't believe in either.

if scientists think free will is an illusion

Irrelevant. An atom a U235 has no free will, but no-one can predict when it will decay over the next few billion years. I can believe we are stochastic, fuzzy logic pattern matching engines requiring neither free will nor fate.

 

[Ophiolite]

Hey hey my dear

I like your answer. I like it alot and it may come in handy later on.

Lets say the context is The God of Abraham.

How would you reply?

What does that even mean? You provide a clause, missing out the entirety of what preceded it in the sentence (which I imagine did exist. If it did not then what are you playing at?) In what way is the God of Abraham a context? Is English your native language? If not, I shall be much more tolerant of the - let's be polite - idiosyncrasies of your writing.

I altered the statement to include the meaning of integrity. How does integrity factor in when we consider context or,

That - and this should be obvious - depends on the context. Did you take classes in being obtuse or is it a natural talent?

when there was no context, how did integrity aid your response?

I always attempt to conduct myself with integrity even when answering silly questions from trainee trolls. Such was the case there.

 

[the iconoclast]

What does that even mean? You provide a clause, missing out the entirety of what preceded it in the sentence (which I imagine did exist. If it did not then what are you playing at?) In what way is the God of Abraham a context? Is English your native language? If not, I shall be much more tolerant of the - let's be polite - idiosyncrasies of your writing.

That - and this should be obvious - depends on the context. Did you take classes in being obtuse or is it a natural talent?

I always attempt to conduct myself with integrity even when answering silly questions from trainee trolls. Such was the case there.

Please forgive me for my inability.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Please forgive me for my inability.

Perhaps if you were to state your questions clearly and concisely, you might communicate better.

I too find the intent of your posts to Ophiolite quite indecipherable.

 

[the iconoclast]

Perhaps if you were to state your questions clearly and concisely, you might communicate better.

I too find the intent of your posts to Ophiolite quite indecipherable.

Please forgive me for my poor attempts. I dont think ive ever been spoken to like this on a forum.

Do you agree with the way i was treated?

 

[the iconoclast]

Hey hey @Shemjaza, i was going to reply eventually to our previous discussion. Now i will have to completely remove myself from it.

Something has caught my attention and i will be concentrating on this new situation.

Hey hey @Kylie

I disagree with most of what you say. You disagree with much of what i say. Lets leave it there for the time being, i have something else to concentrate on.

 

[Ophiolite]

Please forgive me for my poor attempts. I dont think ive ever been spoken to like this on a forum.

Then members of other forums who have tolerated your lack of forum etiquette or consideration for your readers should be ashamed. I am criticising you to help you. Apparently you don't even recognise you need help. That will make this a long, hard haul.

Do you agree with the way i was treated?

Another question to ponder is, do you agree with the contemptuous and disrespectful way you have addressed other members?

Edit: if the other matter that has caught your attention is a problem in your personal life, or of those close to you, I wish you success in dealing with this effectively.

 

[the iconoclast]

Then members of other forums who have tolerated your lack of forum etiquette or consideration for your readers should be ashamed.

Hey hey my dear new friend.

Dont worry im still no different or in an way repentant.

Shame on them!

I am criticising you to help you.

Hehe . Thanks for the effort, how is that going for you, do you think you are succeeding?

Apparently you don't even recognise you need help.

Fascinating. What assistance can you afford?

That will make this a long, hard haul.

Wanna go fast, go alone. Wanna go far, go together.

You and i = together.

Another question to ponder is, do you agree with the contemptuous and disrespectful way you have addressed other members?

Apparently i do not recognize that i need help, so how can i answer this? - he who has a sound education and rank(s) high in IQ tests

Edit: if the other matter that has caught your attention is a problem in your personal life, or of those close to you, I wish you success in dealing with this effectively.

I was hoping you would see those posts. Thanks for your concern however those statements do not ellude to my personal life

With fascination and anticipation, i look forward to your posts.

Cheers

Ps
Did you have any trouble understanding this post?

 

[Ophiolite]

Hey hey my dear new friend.

I am not your friend. If I were mindful to address all infringements of forum rules that would merit a report for cynical goading.

Hehe . Thanks for the effort, how is that going for you, do you think you are succeeding?

Based on your responses here, current success = 0.

Fascinating. What assistance can you afford?

Why do you post? To satisfy your ego, or to exchange ideas with others?

If it is the former I can offer you nothing, nor would I wish to. If it is the latter I can continue to point out, in as many ways as I can contrive, that your style is both obtuse and yet readily seen as patronising or worse.

Apparently i do not recognize that i need help, so how can i answer this? - he who has a sound education and rank(s) high in IQ tests

Again, more goading. Apparently you recall, as I do not, an occasion where - doubtless in context - I mentioned that I score well on IQ tests. Does that bother you? Do you imagine I attach some great significance to it? It actually makes me feel rather inadequate, since there are several million people on the planet who would score higher. Several million! Oh, the shame. (And, of course, there are an incalculable number who are just smarter, or kinder, or more successful, or more caring, or more adept at languages, or play musical instruments, or excel at sports,etc. Woe is me.)

 

[Belk]

I am not your friend. If I were mindful to address all infringements of forum rules that would merit a report for cynical goading.

Based on your responses here, current success = 0.

Why do you post? To satisfy your ego, or to exchange ideas with others?

If it is the former I can offer you nothing, nor would I wish to. If it is the latter I can continue to point out, in as many ways as I can contrive, that your style is both obtuse and yet readily seen as patronising or worse.

Again, more goading. Apparently you recall, as I do not, an occasion where - doubtless in context - I mentioned that I score well on IQ tests. Does that bother you? Do you imagine I attach some great significance to it? It actually makes me feel rather inadequate, since there are several million people on the planet who would score higher. Several million! Oh, the shame. (And, of course, there are an incalculable number who are just smarter, or kinder, or more successful, or more caring, or more adept at languages, or play musical instruments, or excel at sports,etc. Woe is me.)

One wonders why you bother? Best of luck in any case.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Do you agree with the way i was treated?

When, where, and by whom?

 

[Ophiolite]

One wonders why you bother? Best of luck in any case.

Thank you. It's a compulsion. I spent significant parts of my career either in training, or developing personnel. When I see something that I believe could be done better I stick my oar in.

 

[the iconoclast]

One wonders why you bother? Best of luck in any case.

Hey hey

He needs all the luck he can get

 

[the iconoclast]

When, where, and by whom?

Umm....
Post 24. By @Ophiolite. In the thread you happen to be in at the moment.

Fbs - "Perhaps if you were to state your questions clearly and concisely, you might communicate better.

I too find the intent of your posts to Ophiolite quite indecipherable."

You even commented as shown.

Dont make yourself look foolish my dear.

 

[the iconoclast]

I am not your friend.

Hey hey my dear

I offer you my friendship and im here anytime you need support. I love you

When you get sick and tired of having an angry life, Jesus will be waiting with open arms. Anytime you need it.

If I were mindful to address all infringements of forum rules that would merit a report for cynical goading.

Whats stopping you? Dont retort, report right?

Based on your responses here, current success = 0.

How does that make you feel?

Why do you post?

To you or in general?

To satisfy your ego, or to exchange ideas with others?

Im here to debate atheists, agnostics and so called free thinkers, not to exchange ideas but put a chisel into them.

No good?

If it is the former I can offer you nothing, nor would I wish to. If it is the latter I can continue to point out,

What former can you offer me and what is this latter you refer to?

Dont beat around the bush, what can you offer me?

in as many ways as I can contrive, that your style is both obtuse and yet readily seen as patronising or worse.

How does this make you feel?

Again, more goading.

Looks like it works well on you. You seem to respond well to being stimulated. Ive never seen you so motivated, a pity though.

Apparently you recall, as I do not, an occasion where - doubtless in context - I mentioned that I score well on IQ tests. Does that bother you?

Nah, it just seem strange that you would perform well in tests - which require you to spot a pattern - and yet you couldnt see the redundancy in your reply. I had to show it to my sister and we both had a good laugh.

Ps she an atheist and laughed hard at your replies.

Do you imagine I attach some great significance to it?

I dont know. Do you?

It actually makes me feel rather inadequate, since there are several million people on the planet who would score higher.

Dont worry i still like you. Why do you feel inadequate?

Does this inadequacy mean it does matter to you?!?

Several million! Oh, the shame.

I know right. Shame on them!

(And, of course, there are an incalculable number who are just smarter,

Shame of them!

or kinder,

You do come across as unkind, angry and upset.

or more successful,

Shame on them!

or more caring,

You do seem uncaring to me.

or more adept at languages,

Shame on them!

or play musical instruments,

Hey i play the guitar. Nearly 40 years now - dude i rock!!!

or excel at sports,etc.

Shame on them!

Woe is me.)

Indeed, you do sound woeful.

Woe is you!!

Cheers. You are so much fun to me

 

[the iconoclast]

Richard Carrier solves the mystery of the universe
May 12, 2016

@Ophiolite - "I have a number of notions. I hesitate to call them hypotheses and they are certainly not theories. I have a sound education, rank high in IQ tests (which at least demonstrates an aptitude for IQ tests.) and have several decades of engineering and business experience. I am recognised by my peers as being very logical, objective and a sound critical thinker.

I mention these points not to blow my own trumpet, but as relevant background information."

 

[46AND2]

Im here to debate atheists, agnostics and so called free thinkers, not to exchange ideas but put a chisel into them.

Yikes! Sounds like you should start wearing chain-mail, @Ophiolite .

 

[the iconoclast]

Yikes! Sounds like you should start wearing chain-mail, @Ophiolite .

Hey hey

I agree. He'll also need a helmet and a better sword. The one his got does not seem to be effective

Thanks for the freebie!?!