what do people here think of Joyce Meyer?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course, she didn't say that at all. And the quotation with the big red letters doesn't say that, either.

Squint invented this out of a disgust with any preacher who believes what almost every Christian denomination, Protestant or Catholic, does with regard to Hell. And he was called on it when he posted the same thing earlier.

Anyone remember the interview that L.K. had with J.O. some yrs back, when LK asked him the questions of who was saved and who wasn't, and the response from J.O. ..."I don't know"...that shook the Christian world?

[I may start a thread on this ]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7721713/
Joel Olsteen

Joel Osteen Says Jesus Christ is Not the Only Way - YouTube

KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Originally Posted by TravelerFarAwayFromHome

I suggest Joyce Meyer, she seem a bit more balanced
​

.

 

[Albion]

Then you believe that. I will keep that in mind.

For the record I do not believe Jesus went to hell nor do I believe that we have to believe that to be saved.

I also believe that presentation to be entirely heresy.

s

We already knew that umpteen posts ago.

 

[squint]

We already knew that umpteen posts ago.

Do you believe that a person must believe Jesus went to hell in order to be saved Albion?

Just for the record.

?

 

[squint]

Of course, she didn't say that at all. And the quotation with the big red letters doesn't say that, either.

The quote is from one of her publications.

Squint invented this out of a disgust with any preacher who believes what almost every Christian denomination, Protestant or Catholic, does with regard to Hell. And he was called on it when he posted the same thing earlier.

Heresy in general is pretty disgusting imho.

Do I think in order to be saved I must believe Jesus went to hell and took my place?

Who's leg are you trying to pull?

s

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The quote is from one of her publications.

Heresy in general is pretty disgusting imho.

Do I think in order to be saved I must believe Jesus went to hell and took my place?

Who's leg are you trying to pull?

s

Would that be the left or right leg



.

 

[squint]

I believe in God the Father Almighty,Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,Born of the Virgin Mary,Suffered under Pontius Pilate,Was crucified, dead, and buried:He descended into hell;The third day he rose again from the dead;

The RCC playbook has a few different angles on this matter.

A. A holding place of the dead who were going to be saved
B. A place literally 'in the earth' or sheol/the grave

I don't believe they present it as THEE LAKE OF FIRE but that is debatable as there are conflicts in their views on this matter IMHO.

Were Old Testament Saints in the Lake of Fire prior to the resurrection?

uh, adamantly NO.

s

 

[squint]

Would that be the left or right leg
.

Some of this stuff people believe borders on the bizarre.

Jesus in hell on the floor with devils on His back and God pacing and worrying and having to believe that hocus pocus to be saved?

and defending such sights???

Strictly a joke in my sights. And apparently a very profitable joke at that for some.

You ought to hear Kenneth Copeland on some of his bizarre nonsense. He'd put Joyce to shame any day.

Wild eyed sensationalism sells well in charismania.

s

 

[PinkSapphire007]

I believe in God the Father Almighty,Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,Born of the Virgin Mary,Suffered under Pontius Pilate,Was crucified, dead, and buried:He descended into hell;The third day he rose again from the dead;

seems simple ey? why do folks twist things?

 

[Albion]

The quote is from one of her publications.

The quote in question was this:

I would guess she is very orthodox on that matter i.e. everyone who doesn't believe like her is toast....

I don't see any evidence that that's a quote from her. LLOJ asked for it too, and you've produced nothing.

Do I think in order to be saved I must believe Jesus went to hell and took my place?

Who's leg are you trying to pull?

Whose leg are YOU trying to pull, changing the following quote in order to make her seem to have said something she did not?

What she wrote or said--according to your post--was this:

Here is Joyce again:

"You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”

But now you've altered that and are asking--

Do you believe that a person must believe Jesus went to hell in order to be saved Albion?

and

Do I think in order to be saved I must believe Jesus went to hell and took my place?

So, regardless of my own beliefs, you are demanding that I agree NOT WITH JOYCE MEYER but with your version of Joyce Meyer. She said that Jesus took our place, which, as I explained, is quite orthodox (as is "he descended into hell"). Your credibility is now zero.

 

[squint]

The quote in question was this:

I don't see any evidence that that's a quote from her. LLOJ asked for it too, and you've produced nothing.

I thought her statement was rather clear myself Albion.

Whose leg are YOU trying to pull, changing the following quote in order to make her seem to have said something she did not?

Perhaps you can request a re-write?

"You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”

So, regardless of my own beliefs, you are demanding that I agree NOT WITH JOYCE MEYER but with your version of Joyce Meyer. She said that Jesus took our place, which, as I explained, is quite orthodox (as is "he descended into hell"). Your credibility is now zero.

I don't believe that is listed anywhere in the Nicene Creed Albion.

I certainly DON'T and believe her statement to be merely false, but heresy.

One is not saved by believing Jesus took our place in hell.

You are welcome to define that from the texts if you can.

s

 

[Albion]

I'm not hesitant to say that I believe Jesus to be our only Lord and Savior.

 

[Nanopants]

I tend to agree with squint's perspective. Hades (the grave) =/= eternal hellfire, else God would have been divided against God and Christ would have ceased to be God.

 

[squint]

When the Apostles Creed says He descended into HELL it does not mean THE LAKE OF FIRE.

Hell in the sense intended there is the holding place of the dead who died prior to the resurrection but who would come out and be with Him after the resurrection. It was, in essence in the Apostolic Creed sense a place in the GROUND.

surely NOT the lake of fire.

but the RCC and other orthodox are vulnerable on this point as in other places they also make HELL the LAKE OF FIRE.

Needless to say it's an interesting spot they have there.

The 'better' RCC explanation of that matter is here:

"Jesus did not go to the Hell of the damned, rather to the 'Limbo of the Fathers' or 'Abraham's bosom' where the righteous souls awaited His death to open heaven to them."

And I accept this explanation as TRUTHFUL.

s

 

[Habakk]

She said that Jesus took our place, which, as I explained, is quite orthodox (as is "he descended into hell"). Your credibility is now zero.

Joyce Meyer’s views are far from orthodox. Yes it is orthodox to believe in the substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross. It is not orthodox to believe that he lost his divinity on the cross, became a sinner, needed to suffer for three days torment of demons, needed to repent and be born again before he was resurrected. That is not the gospel.

Jesus descended into the earth (hell but not the lake of fire) in victory and took the keys of death and hell and made them an open show.

The victory was won on the cross by the sinless son of God.

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God” (1 Corinthians 1:18).

“For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption” (Psalm 16:10).

 

[squint]

I tend to agree with squint's perspective. Hades (the grave) =/= eternal hellfire, else God would have been divided against God and Christ would have ceased to be God.

I have seen this particular aspect of Christianity SORELY ABUSED in charismania. Most of it is a bunch of wild eyed nonsense purposefully designed to milk the listeners of their $$$.

It makes me sick how malicious and manipulating these people can be for a buck.

Firey passions for sure, especially when it translates FEAR into MONEY.

You see the painful death of Jesus in His Flesh on the CROSS was not enough for these people.

They make the CROSS look like NOTHING compared to JESUS SUFFERING IN HELL.

Jesus went to hell and suffered there. Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland.wmv - YouTube

The attached is one of the 'lynch pins' of charismania. Most of them preach Jesus being tormented in hell by the DEVILS...ceasing as the Son of God, being 'born again' in hell, zzzzzzzzzzzzz ad infinitum.

in your behalf, of course.

s

 

[squint]

Joyce Meyer’s views are far from orthodox. Yes it is orthodox to believe in the substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross. It is not orthodox to believe that he lost his divinity on the cross, became a sinner, needed to suffer for three days torment of demons, needed to repent and be born again before he was resurrected. That is not the gospel.

Jesus descended into the earth (hell but not the lake of fire) in victory and took the keys of death and hell and made them an open show.

The victory was won on the cross by the sinless son of God.

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God” (1 Corinthians 1:18).

“For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption” (Psalm 16:10).

Glad somebody gets it!

Makes ya wonder sometimes.

 

[Albion]

Joyce Meyer’s views are far from orthodox. Yes it is orthodox to believe in the substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross.

And that was the point.

Since you bring it up, remember that the whole issue has been what Joyce Meyer TEACHES, not what she believes.

I suppose she does hold some unorthodox beliefs. Several of us here who are not ready to join the slander fest have already agreed to that. But the issue is what she's pushing on TV audiences and on-locale listeners. And if every preacher were subjected to this test, who would there be that we are permitted to listen to? Hmmmm. So are we to live in the cave or only engage members of our own denominations? How petty and self-defeating that would be.

 

[squint]

I suppose she does hold some unorthodox beliefs.

oh waa waa

Why you even thought of defending that heretical nonsense to begin with is beyond me. I thought you were more discerning quite frankly.

s

 

[Albion]

oh waa waa

Why you even thought of defending that heretical nonsense to begin with is beyond me. I thought you were more discerning quite frankly.

s

I DID NOT DEFEND ANY "HERETICAL NONSENSE." I agree that she may hold heretical beliefs. But they are irrelevant to our conversation. What is wrong with you? You have to misquote people, take both sides of an issue, put words into people's mouths, anything to find fault. Is it that you are against anyone going to hell but you sure would like to compensate by getting them here and now?

 

[Albion]

I tend to agree with squint's perspective. Hades (the grave) =/= eternal hellfire, else God would have been divided against God and Christ would have ceased to be God.

Fair enough, although what he thinks of the Christian teaching on the afterlife has next to nothing to do with the thread. Maybe a new thread in Unorthodox Theology entitled "What is Hell?"