What did Jesus mean when He prayed that we would be one in John 17:21?

[HenSoma-OneBody]

Since "going to church" is all about relationships, pick the one that is most friendly, loving and God fearing. There is no doctrinally perfect church so may as well pick one with great Christians!

But how will I know if they are truly Christians, or just churchgoers who live religious lives?

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

See post above, #39.

I love this, so we place out full trust in the Lord and allow His Holy Spirit to guide us in this world, just as Jesus told us to! This is the way I choose to follow the Lord, thank you!!!

 

[fhansen]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

The main reason for the divisiveness if we're honest is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, serving, ironically, as the "rule of faith". To this day on the most basic doctrines the ancient churches are still in overwhelming agreement even where there are centuries of virtual isolation from each other, on issues that divide Proestants mainly,

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

The main reason for the divisiveness if we're honest is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, serving, ironically, as the "rule of faith". To this day on the most basic doctrines the ancient churches are still in overwhelming agreement even where there are centuries of virtual isolation from each other, on issues that divide Proestants mainly,

So what is the right place to go to where they teach the truth? Jesus said there is only one truth, way, and life?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

But how will I know if they are truly Christians, or just churchgoers who live religious lives?

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is your guild.

 

[terryjohn]

Amen, so where should I go? There are so many churches in my town alone. Why, if there is only one "Church?"

It is more important to ask who should you be before you determine where you should go. The church of God is above and beyond the churches of men. That we should strive for truth is essential if we are in fact honest. If we have come to know Christ there can really be no peace in this life. Truth must over come and we must see it do so rather than simple be told that it will. Then and only then will all bow for only then will all mouths be stopped.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

It is more important to ask who should you be before you determine where you should go. The church of God is above and beyond the churches of men. That we should strive for truth is essential if we are in fact honest. If we have come to know Christ there can really be no peace in this life. Truth must over come and we must see it do so rather than simple be told that it will. Then and only then will all bow for only then will all mouths be stopped.

Beautifully stated, we must first be in Christ to find the true Church (Christ's Body), and then lean on Him to teach us all truth's through the Spirit He sends to indwell us. I love your response terryjohn!

 

[terryjohn]

Therein lies the difficulty, which doctrines are true and which aren't. Are you free to selected among the legion of denominations which is true and which isn't, because one tickles the emotions and the other doesn't? How do you know it is true? Is it just a good vibe? Or is it that all truth simply relative; that is what is true for me may not be true for you (or vice versa).

This isn't the only place in scripture were perfection is asked for - seems to be a pretty tall order. What does it mean to "be perfect"? "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48].

JoeT

Perfection can refer to being perfect for purpose. Hence a rock may prove perfect for hammering in a loose nail in the absence of a hammer. Our faith or imperfection may then be perfect in that it allows God to be gracious and merciful and above all our saviour.

 

[Clare73]

It was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and not man that tied everything together. The church rapidly moved away from that in order to re-establish man's kingdoms. That Gospel was abandoned almost from the start once the gentiles took over (as God knew it would).
How often do you hear the Gospel of the Kingdom taught today?

The gospel of the kingdom, whose preacher was Jesus Christ, and its gospel, as in kingdoms of old, was its Charter; i.e., of the King's coronation oath and the subjects' allegiance oath, where the king obligated himself to pardon, protect and save those in the kingdom, and the subjects obligated themselves to observe his statutes and seek his honor.

It is the kingdom of God, of the eternal kingship of God, where God rules; the presence of the kingdom in the person Jesus, the King.
The Jews thought that the Kingdom of God was going to appear at once (Lk 19:11, 27).
But it is not an earthly kingdom (Jn 18:36, 3:3, 5), it's presence is spiritual--invisible (Lk 17:20) and within you (Lk 17:21), present in the persons of faith where Christ rules in their hearts.

It is also the kingdom of heaven (Mt 3:2), a present reality as well as a future hope; the kingdom of grace and glory, surviving and surpassing all the kingdoms of the earth.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is taught wherever salvation by faith and trust in the person and work of Christ for the remission of one's sin, fellowship with God and sanctification through obedience is taught.

]Matthew 20:25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

 

[timothyu]

Jesus is praying only for the born again of the Holy Spirit.

Praying for those given to Him who will carry on His Gospel of Kingdom message after He is gone. It's all about God's replacement of man as governor/ruler. Man never likes to be usurped. There will be and already has been backlash.

 

[timothyu]

But how will I know if they are truly Christians, or just churchgoers who live religious lives?

Fruits. Their ruler is God. and not any man or system of man, for both serve self. Their fruits serve others and not self. Their fruits do not oppress but refrain from oppressing

 

[Clare73]

I love this, so we place out full trust in the Lord and allow His Holy Spirit to guide us in this world, just as Jesus told us to! This is the way I choose to follow the Lord, thank you!!!

We also need to study the Word of God written, for it is the Owner's Manual telling us what and how to operate this new birth.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

We also need to study the Word of God written, for it is the Owner's Manual telling us what and how to operate this new birth.

I agree, but there is the real problem. Most do not read while being led by the Spirit. In doing so, there are as many interpretations of what is read as there are readers. So, they will usually turn to someone who they deem as learned in the scriptures (big name teachers) and see what they have to say. Sooner or later, they will gravitate to the teachers who best gel with their own belief's based on what they read. Then, we end up with a whole lot of denominational belief's and differing doctrines. Then we are right back to the original question. We need to trust the Lord by faith or we will end up following the blind who are leading the many blind. Faith is belief without having to understand, today's Christianity teaches we should not believe it unless we can actually find it and prove it from the scripters. Therefore, we need not have to live by faith. This is not what Jesus taught, but it is what the many local churches are teaching, just take a look and listen.

 

[JoeT]

Interesting answer. Within the answer was a direct statement of division as you said that the only true way is the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." That does not answer as to why there is so much division, but it does speak to the fact that there is truly division in those who claim to be in Christ. Thank you for your answer JoeT.

I thought all unity centered around "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"? In that regard it does answer your question about division. Is the unity we are talking about all those 'united' against the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"? Or, is it one where we all sit around the camp fire singing Kumbaya?

St. Paul writes in his epistle to the Ephesians about the blessings received in unity as well as the blessing in persevering in unity [Chp. 1 thru 3]. He cautions and urges to keep unity, a unity far different from the faux unity found in the legions of other doctrines. St. Paul’s unity is first a devoutness to love of Christ, second, chains of fidelity binding us to Christ and through Him one to another, and third the grace afforded the Church and her united member parts. This is seen in the first verses of Ephesians 4.

I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. [Ephesians 4:1-5]​

A person consists of body in union with the soul. The Church also consists of a body in union with her soul consisting of the Holy Spirit animating the body. It is a holy union of the faithful members to the Body of Christ in union with the soul, i.e. the Holy Spirit; the whole of which is the Church. The soul ‘communicates’ to her existence as spirit which “subsists to the corporeal matter, out of which and the intellectual soul there results unity of existence; so that the existence of the whole composite is also the existence of the soul.” [St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, I, 76, 1,5] In such unity of the faithful are of “one essence” or “of one nature”; all as if of one being, the Body of Christ. Therefore, Catholics hear “Union is good, but unity is better." (Bona est unio sed potior est unitas). [c. Sarda Y Salvany, Felix, Liberalism Is a Sin] as her member parts are consubstantial (not conjoined) with Christ as Christ is with the Father.. [Cf John 17:21]

Simply, we are to be of one God, one faith, of one mind and judgment, one hope, one faith, one baptism. Maybe you don't like that, but that's what Christ meant.

JoeT

 

[Clare73]

I agree, but there is the real problem. Most do not read while being led by the Spirit. In doing so, there are as many interpretations of what is read as there are readers. So, they will usually turn to someone who they deem as learned in the scriptures (big name teachers) and see what they have to say. Sooner or later, they will gravitate to the teachers who best gel with their own belief's based on what they read. Then, we end up with a whole lot of denominational belief's and differing doctrines. Then we are right back to the original question. We need to trust the Lord by faith or we will end up following the blind who are leading the many blind. Faith is belief without having to understand, today's Christianity teaches we should not believe it unless we can actually find it and prove it from the scripters. Therefore, we need not have to live by faith. This is not what Jesus taught, but it is what the many local churches are teaching, just take a look and listen.

If you stay in the Word, you will begin to see where others are getting it wrong.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

If you stay in the Word, you will begin to see where others are getting it wrong.

I do hope so, but I know thousands upon thousands never do. They stray from the narrow path and blindly believe all is well with their soul. Sadly, they will tell the Lord in the end, "Did we not read your bible and follow what we thought it meant?" And the Lord will tell them plainly, "Depart from me, I never knew you." He is the good shepherd who has sent us the Spirit, His advocate, to teach us all truth. Most people either never hear this, or they just decide to trust in what they read or hear from others.

 

[timothyu]

Then we are right back to the original question.

Hence as I and Jesus said, go back to the original foundation and start over.

 

[timothyu]

"One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

Thought there were two that couldn't agree. I watched two documentaries last night from each side of the fence spouting their histories and each denied the other while claiming the same succession. Not a very good start.

 

[Clare73]

Praying for those given to Him who will carry on His Gospel of Kingdom message after He is gone. It's all about God's replacement of man as governor/ruler. Man never likes to be usurped. There will be and already has been backlash.

When did man replace God that God should not replace man?

Any replacement of man by God is done in the new birth.

 

[Clare73]

I do hope so, but I know thousands upon thousands never do.

That's what tares do. . .and tares don't become wheat, just as goats don't become sheep.

It is their choice, and we all bear the consequences of our choices.

They stray from the narrow path and blindly believe all is well with their soul. Sadly, they will tell the Lord in the end, "Did we not read your bible and follow what we thought it meant?" And the Lord will tell them plainly, "Depart from me, I never knew you." He is the good shepherd who has sent us the Spirit, His advocate, to teach us all truth. Most people either never hear this, or they just decide to trust in what they read or hear from others.