What did Jesus mean when He prayed that we would be one in John 17:21?

[HenSoma-OneBody]

That was such a wonderful answer with deep and lasting meaning. We can only be one in mind if we take on the mind of Christ, which begins with our full surrender and allow the absolute love of Christ bond us together for His good pleasure. However, the moment we feel the need to express our own mind as applied to something, we will of course find conflict because God created each of us as unique beings. Therefore, we must learn to purely love one another in all things and we will have no reason for conflict or division. Thankyou for your insight!

 

[timothyu]

So the answer is go back to the start, the true church doctrine and church is that which endured.

The Way?

 

[timothyu]

The Gospel of the Kingdom is both in this age, and the one to come,

'Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven'. His Kingdom is His governance, not the governance of man. The word King poses a problem for many of the US.

 

[Minister Monardo]

'Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven'. His Kingdom is His governance, not the governance of man. The word King poses a problem for many of the US.

Unbelievers are described as "the rebellious". That once was I.

 

[Leaf473]

That was such a wonderful answer with deep and lasting meaning. We can only be one in mind if we take on the mind of Christ, which begins with our full surrender and allow the absolute love of Christ bond us together for His good pleasure. However, the moment we feel the need to express our own mind as applied to something, we will of course find conflict because God created each of us as unique beings. Therefore, we must learn to purely love one another in all things and we will have no reason for conflict or division. Thankyou for your insight!

Thank you for the nice response (assuming you were talking to me)!

Say, it looks like you're using the posting system in kind of a "non-standard" way.
Usually, people have the quote of the person they're responding to at the top of their post.

If you're doing it differently on purpose, of course that's fine.

It's way off topic, of course, but if you would like some help, I would be glad to assist.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

Thank you for the nice response (assuming you were talking to me)!

Say, it looks like you're using the posting system in kind of a "non-standard" way.
Usually, people have the quote of the person they're responding to at the top of their post.

If you're doing it differently on purpose, of course that's fine.

It's way off topic, of course, but if you would like some help, I would be glad to assist.

I guess being new to the Forum's features I have some to learn, thanks. I was responding to your answer.

 

[JoeT]

Why do you think so many doctrines exist when there is only one Way, Truth, and Life?

There was then, there is one now, and there will always be one way, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. All other's are built around Voltaire's adage, "It is contrary to the natural, innate, and inalienable right and liberty and dignity of man, to subject himself to an authority, the root, rule, measure, and sanction of which is not in himself". The Way is to serve God, the other is God serving man. Which do you think is the right way?

JoeT

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

There was then, there is one now, and there will always be one way, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. All other's are built around Voltaire's adage, "It is contrary to the natural, innate, and inalienable right and liberty and dignity of man, to subject himself to an authority, the root, rule, measure, and sanction of which is not in himself". The Way is to serve God, the other is God serving man. Which do you think is the right way?

JoeT

Interesting answer. Within the answer was a direct statement of division as you said that the only true way is the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." That does not answer as to why there is so much division, but it does speak to the fact that there is truly division in those who claim to be in Christ. Thank you for your answer JoeT.

 

[Leaf473]

I guess being new to the Forum's features I have some to learn, thanks. I was responding to your answer.

It's all good, I was just wondering if you wanted any help.

But it looks like you got it down great already!

Peace be with you!

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

It's all good, I was just wondering if you wanted any help.

But it looks like you got it down great already!

Peace be with you!

Thank you for offering your help, I will remember that if I get stuck in the future. I pray you will have a blessed a day and remain well!

 

[Halbhh]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

Reading John chapter 14 and 15 tells us how, very directly, with clear wording, why and how we will be with Him, be in Him, and He in us.

(instead of isolating the verses, it's far better to listen fully through these chapters)

John 14 NIV

As we learn in Matthew chapter 7, and throughout the New Testament, not all will follow, and enter, but the way is clear. Those who are His sheep listen to Him (John chapter 10)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

The same kind of oneness the Three persons of the Trinity experience - Jesus prayed that we who believe and are born again by the Holy Spirit be also one, as many individual persons but one in the same way God is one yet three persons.

 

[timothyu]

Our basic instinct is animal in nature as it is for others of our mammalian species along with others. Our so called intellect that set us apart caused us to focus on self and not just self interest which resulted from a basic survival instinct, forgetting the nature of God within us. Jesus hopes we will remember who we really are and become once again willing extensions of God.

Extensions being the key word. Not gods ourselves but extensions of the one true God. The world man has made in our own image is happy to use God to justify our actions while we for the most part refuse to change to do His will instead. We build our own kingdoms and self justify our own actions by redefining good and evil to suit our purposes and not the purposes of God. Jesus wished for us to reverse that path to nowhere, to rejoin the Father instead of isolating ourselves.

 

[Yarddog]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

God's children are all baptized with the same Holy Spirit and that Spirit makes us One, even if we all don't agree on items of faith.


Romans 14
1 Welcome anyone who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions.
2 One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 [For] one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.
8 and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
12 So [then] each of us shall give an account of himself [to God].

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

God's children are all baptized with the same Holy Spirit and that Spirit makes us One, even if we all don't agree on items of faith.


Romans 14
1 Welcome anyone who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions.
2 One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 [For] one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.
8 and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
12 So [then] each of us shall give an account of himself [to God].

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

God's children are all baptized with the same Holy Spirit and that Spirit makes us One, even if we all don't agree on items of faith.


Romans 14
1 Welcome anyone who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions.
2 One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 [For] one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.
8 and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
12 So [then] each of us shall give an account of himself [to God].

Thank you for sharing Yarddog, I appreciate your insight. I do have another question based on your input. Who are those who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit? I hear a lot of people who share this, but they produce no fruit. If they produce no fruit, they are not in the vine. Are they, if they claim to be in Christ, still one with others who claim to be in Christ?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Amen, so where should I go? There are so many churches in my town alone. Why, if there is only one "Church?"

Since "going to church" is all about relationships, pick the one that is most friendly, loving and God fearing. There is no doctrinally perfect church so may as well pick one with great Christians!

 

[timothyu]

Hanging out with the choir

Matthew 5: 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Matthew 9: 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 5: 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[Clare73]

Therein lies the difficulty, which doctrines are true and which aren't. Are you free to selected among the legion of denominations which is true and which isn't, because one tickles the emotions and the other doesn't? How do you know it is true? Is it just a good vibe? Or is it that all truth simply relative; that is what is true for me may not be true for you (or vice versa).

This isn't the only place in scripture were perfection is asked for - seems to be a pretty tall order. What does it mean to "be perfect"? "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48].

JoeT

We're focused on the wrong measure.
Let's take a look at Jesus' prayer of Jn 17.

Jn 17:9 - "I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

Jesus is praying only for the born again of the Holy Spirit.

Jn 17:20-21 - "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. . ."

Jesus is praying for those who will be born again of the Holy Spirit in the future.

Jn 17:21 - ". . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be one in us so that the world may believe you have sent me."

Jesus is praying that all the born again of the Holy Spirit may be one.

Jesus prayer was not a wishful request.
It is part of his Last Will and Testament, of which the Father is the Executor.

There are many tares in the professing church, most of them not even realizing they are tares.
There will be no unity among tares, nor can there be unity between the born again of the Holy Spirit and tares.

The Executor of Jesus Last Will and Testament has not failed in his fiduciary duty.
I submit that where the born again of the Holy Spirit are gathered, there is unity, regardless of denomination.
And that's not based on idle speculation.

 

[Clare73]

Why do you think so many doctrines exist when there is only one Way, Truth, and Life?

See post above, #39.