What did Jesus mean when He prayed that we would be one in John 17:21?

[Saint JOHN]

As I have stated many times .. Jesus said (to warn his disciples against false religious types)..

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


this is how you tell a person is a believer GODS WAY ! you cant get this until 1st REAL contact with God and he come within YOU. Most don't have this so tear the page out or make excuses.(they are still in repentance mode)

many DONT have this and are very religious, ( to varying degrees ) just as the Jews were to (there idea of God ) and crucified Jesus as he told them how far wrong they were many times.

Joh 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

repent ..baby's cant .. baptized .. Greek = immerse dip etc symbol of burial .. (your part) receive the Holy Spirit (Gods part in your face real !! and as a result you have ALL the gifts mentioned ;

the right place has the same doctrine as the first churches..

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: ( they all could and still do )
19 Yet in the church....(when you come together; because Jesus already told you to pray in private)

it is run this way 2-3 tongues - corresponding interpretation-2 at most 3 prophecy.

believing is more than just acceptance of God or Jesus Christ

ie I believe there is a President in the USA dose that automatically make me an American citizen !? there are protocols in place and if/when you do it right then ok your in. same with God ; when you receive the Holy Spirit your Going to Know !!!
because God will reveal himself so hang on to your socks !

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[timothyu]

When did man replace God that God should not replace man?

Any replacement of man by God is done in the new birth.

Started in the Garden when man put self will ahead of the will of God and carried it on until today. Are not we to hope for His return to reverse that trend once and for all??

 

[lsume]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

To my knowledge, I have only met 5 others who are Truly born again. I have looked for a long time. When everyone is taught by God, everyone will understand like their Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

 

[Clare73]

Started in the Garden when man put self will ahead of the will of God and carried it on until today.
Are not we too hope for His return to reverse that trend once and for all??

That will take place only in eternal glory.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

To my knowledge, I have only met 5 others who are Truly born again. I have looked for a long time. When everyone is taught by God, everyone will understand like their Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

I have met more than five, but in comparison to all who claim to know Christ, only a few percent are truly bearing the fruit of Christ in their lives and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide them along the narrow path daily. It is the high 90% of all who make this claim are truly stumbling along the broad path that leads to destruction and they do not even know it. They think they are well and do not need a physician such as Jesus to make them whole. They have their own belief's and are content in these manmade doctrines.

 

[Yarddog]

Thank you for sharing Yarddog, I appreciate your insight. I do have another question based on your input. Who are those who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit? I hear a lot of people who share this, but they produce no fruit. If they produce no fruit, they are not in the vine. Are they, if they claim to be in Christ, still one with others who claim to be in Christ?

If a person has been properly baptized they have God's Holy Spirit within them but we are all given different gifts of that Spirit. We also are babies in the Spirit when we are baptized and we need to learn.

Just as physical babies cannot eat solid food, Spiritual babies are the same and need help to grow and begin to eat solid spiritual food. We each mature at different rates and some remain immature for many reasons but the Holy Spirit is still within them.

God will judge each of us so we shouldn't judge others.

 

[JoeT]

We're focused on the wrong measure.
Let's take a look at Jesus' prayer of Jn 17.

Jn 17:9 - "I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."

Jesus is praying only for the born again of the Holy Spirit.

Jn 17:20-21 - "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. . ."

Jesus is praying for those who will be born again of the Holy Spirit in the future.

Jn 17:21 - ". . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be one in us so that the world may believe you have sent me."

Jesus is praying that all the born again of the Holy Spirit may be one.

Jesus prayer was not a wishful request.
It is part of his Last Will and Testament, of which the Father is the Executor.

There are many tares in the professing church, most of them not even realizing they are tares.
There will be no unity among tares, nor can there be unity between the born again of the Holy Spirit and tares.

The Executor of Jesus Last Will and Testament has not failed in his fiduciary duty.
I submit that where the born again of the Holy Spirit are gathered, there is unity, regardless of denomination.
And that's not based on idle speculation.

The prayer is for the Twelve, that they might be one. [Cf. vs.11]. He sanctifies them in truth vs. 19. After sending them into the world, vs 18. The Twelve represent the Church. The "born again-ers" are not represented in these verses.

God did not execute His son, that's sick.

JoeT

 

[com7fy8]

Within the answer was a direct statement of division as you said that the only true way is the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church."

Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life.

That does not answer as to why there is so much division, but it does speak to the fact that there is truly division in those who claim to be in Christ.

But if they are comparing and competing with other groups . . . we need to stay busy with how God is evaluating us in comparison with Jesus.

But how will I know if they are truly Christians, or just churchgoers who live religious lives?

Jesus says not to judge by appearance > John 7:24 >

"'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

So, yes there is the "righteous" way to judge people. And so, of course, ones will tell you to never judge anyone, so you do not honestly evaluate people. But God does have us evaluate ourselves and others.

There are important reasons why we need to correctly evaluate ourselves and others.

Evaluation helps us to see our own need for correction.

Evaluation can help us to see how a wrong person needs God and how we might be able to help the person. So, of course Satan does not want this; plus selfish people might want to use us, and so they are not interested in us seeing through them.

If you can tell the difference about who is real and who is false, this can help make sure we do not trust evil people to pastor us. Plus, of course, with God we can correctly evaluate people so we don't marry the wrong person. We see how ones claim they can't be expected to tell the difference, and they use this to excuse how they have been fooled by evil people. Make sure with God.

You need to be able to evaluate reliably, so you can tell who is qualified to take care of God's people > our Apostle Paul gives qualifications for who is qualified to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. And you can see how a number of groups have not obeyed this, and so they have had very wrong pastors and other wrong church leaders in their groups.

If you trust Jesus, Jesus is committed to making sure you can tell the difference between whom He has you trust and whom He does not have you trust.

So what is the right place to go to where they teach the truth? Jesus said there is only one truth, way, and life?

Jesus Himself is the way and truth and life.

My opinion is Jesus can have really Christian example people in a church where there are wrong people. But with Jesus you can tell the difference, and feed on the good example And the mature senior example people can bring you to better than you thought God's word means . . . like, about how to relate in love. God can use them to demonstrate They likely will not waste time comparing themselves or their church with other groups, because Jesus is worthy of our attention. How do we compare with Jesus?

We need to trust the Lord by faith or we will end up following the blind who are leading the many blind. Faith is belief without having to understand, today's Christianity teaches we should not believe it unless we can actually find it and prove it from the scripters. Therefore, we need not have to live by faith. This is not what Jesus taught, but it is what the many local churches are teaching, just take a look and listen.

The mature example people are the ones you need to discover.

There can be plenty of wrong people who can be right in your face to fool you into supposing they represent Jesus and a church and denomination. But the noisy comparing competitive people do not speak for anyone but their own selves. But God can have you meet them so you can offer them your gentle and humble and kind example and possibly something good from God's word. So, be ready to love any person, while you are discovering who is for real in Jesus.

 

[JoeT]

Perfection can refer to being perfect for purpose. Hence a rock may prove perfect for hammering in a loose nail in the absence of a hammer. Our faith or imperfection may then be perfect in that it allows God to be gracious and merciful and above all our saviour.

Perfection is a quality meaning 'lacking nothing'. So, yes I guess in the absence of a hammer, a rock of the right density and shape could be a perfect hammer substitute. But, men are not substitutes.

Mankind was made according to the creator's words, perfectly. It's not His creation that is imperfect, rather how the servant has malformed it. The original man was created with a soul that was perfectly joined to the intellect and united with the will of God, overflowing with the knowledge of truth; the intellect functioned in the light of God's will disciplining the lower appetites through reason alone. Adam could ‘reason’ why he should be honorable, just, prudent, and strong in his virtuous graces simply because he knew God, spoke with God, and was befriended by God. However, because Adam acted unjustly we bear the just punishment sin for the acts of one man. Without recreating man as wrath, God withdrew that original justice. So, yes There is plenty of room for improvement in mankind, especially through the rectitude of the will, justification. Nevertheless, I don't think Jesus asks us to be perfect as the Father is perfect just to show His mercy. We become perfect when we receive Him in a way lacking nothing, perfectly. [Cf. John 1:12].

JoeT

 

[setst777]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me." John 17:21-23

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church. If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

So true. I would say though that, it's not that all the sects within the ambarella of Christianity are okay with such divisions, for I believe each sect wishes and hopes that all people would come to their sect alone as the true doctrines and beliefs of the faith. So, I think rather, that sects within Christianity generally just put up with the divisions at the least.

Biased pride is likely the reason for the divisions, in that, people are accustomed to using the Scriptures as proof texts to back up their beliefs and opinions.

Many sects have their own commentaries written by men to give deeper meanings that align with their particular beliefs and doctrines.

God's unadulterated Truth can be achieved by humbly trusting Lord Jesus enough to believe that the Gospel Revelation was indeed completely revealed to provide the full riches of complete understanding, and made plain to understand, so that those reading will understand and come to a knowledge of the Truth, just as God said it does.

In general, and to one degree or another, Christians have been so accustomed to believing they cannot understand the Scriptures without the use of commentaries or a Christian leader to tell them what it all means. This false understanding of their perceived own ineptitude is the fault of not only the leaders, but also Christians who appear to faithless or lazy to check what their leaders are teaching by Holy Scripture in context. Too lazy to read the Epistles in context the way they were meant to be read.

Commentaries are flowered with deeper understandings that reflect the beliefs and doctrines of the sects they belong to, and so these commentaries disagree on major issues with each other.

Christian leaders disagree with each other. That is why we have so many sects.

What are we to do? If we can just believe God, and prayerfully and humbly read each Epistle as a letter from beginning to end - without pre-bias - then God's Word will be made plain to understand to us. That is God's Promise. I have to believe this because that is what God stated through His Apostles.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV)
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Ephesians 3:4-5 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (NIV) 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 2:2-3 (NIV) 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB) 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Jude 3-4 (WEB) 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Blessings

 

[lsume]

I have met more than five, but in comparison to all who claim to know Christ, only a few percent are truly bearing the fruit of Christ in their lives and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide them along the narrow path daily. It is the high 90% of all who make this claim are truly stumbling along the broad path that leads to destruction and they do not even know it. They think they are well and do not need a physician such as Jesus to make them whole. They have their own belief's and are content in these manmade doctrines.

I thought I was born again until Christ came to me and opened my eyes to See and ears to hear. Many are called but few are chosen. Seeking The Truth regardless of how difficult it might be to accept It is essential I believe. It wasn’t until shortly after my 36th birthday that He visited me. Have you ever read Numbers 16:29 and the entire story that surrounds It. You might find it to be illuminating. The word visitation has a very Spiritual meaning and can be found in other places in The Word.
Num.16

1. 
   [29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.

 

[zoidar]

Amen, so where should I go? There are so many churches in my town alone. Why, if there is only one "Church?"

I think you should go to a church where the members are taking their walk with God seriously. The doctrines are from my point of view of secondary importance. Of course the teaching needs to be Christ centered and sincere. I see nothing wrong with attending different churches, yet it's good to have a base, a home church for the sake of fellowship. It can take some time to find the right church.

Christ love,
Peter

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus prayed, "That all of them (His disciples) may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

There is one God, one Gospel, one Saviour, one Spirit. Anyone who accepts Christ as Saviour and Lord and trusts him for eternal life is born again, and anyone who is born again and has received the Spirit is a child of God.
Christians are told to abide in the Vine, to live IN Christ; Paul says that we died with him, are raised to new life and our life is hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3. We are new creations if are in Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and have every spiritual blessing in him, Ephesians 3:3.
So all Christians can, and should, be in Christ. And as Christ and his Father are one, whoever believes in, accepts and receives Christ, receives the Father, and is one with the Father, also. In fact, Jesus came and died so that we might be reconciled to God, and he is the only Way to the Father.

With the thousands of differing doctrines and countless denominational entities it is difficult to understand how this was ever part of Jesus' plan or design for His Church.

I don't think it was.
I think he is ok with us worshipping in different ways - we are all different after all. But to let different interpretations of Scripture, and different ideas separate us from each other, to the point of argument and animosity must be heart breaking for him. The devil will not destroy the church from the outside - persecution has always made us stronger and caused the church to grow. But he doesn't need to; he is doing a pretty good job of destroying it from within. If believers came together, worshipped and fellowshipped together and all, together, lived for Christ and IN him, the devil would feel so threatened that he'd have to try something drastic, and we'd really know what spiritual warfare was.

If this is true, why are there so many who are okay with the divisions and divisiveness between those who claim to be in Christ?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not ok with it; not at all.

 

[Mountainmike]

The reason for division was "sola scriptura"
the loss of tradition and authority to interpret it.
Along side scripture was the meaning of scripture (tradition) and the means to resolve disputes (authority).
A table with three legs. Lose one and it falls over!

At the reformation, sola scriptura empowered all to decide their own meaning for scripture.

Tradition is not a set of customs, it is paradosis "the faith handed down For much of the history of the church the faith was passed by "word of mouth or letter". The meanining with the scritpure.
A bible took three years to copy by a monk. Few had seen one. Almost nobody owned one till after the printing press, and even them most could not read one. They were too expensive for the ordinary man till 200 years ago even! So the faith, ie the meaning as well as scripture was handed down by word of mouth.

Authority is the "power to bind and loose" which is the phrase that meant "give authoratitive judgement" given to apostolic succession, and is the power Jesus handed to councils, to settle disputes on doctrine. Many heresies were outlawed , for example the arian heresy by the council of Nicea. Authority is not new. Jesus told all to listen to the pharisees when speaking from moses seat.

That is why the church is called "the foundation of truth" in scripture. The household of God, a physical church.

So Division was caused by sola scriptura
At the reformation, sola scriptura empowered all to decide their own meaning for scripture.

That was not Luther's intention, but it was the consequence of sola scriptura, so even Luther lamented "every peasant now has their own doctrine". That process has continued ever since.

So different denominations take different, sometimes opposite meanings for the same scripture. They have no authority to decide meaning. So congregations divide on a point of doctrine. All claim the holy spirit supports their interpretation. But there can only be one truth, the holy spirit cannot support opposites!

Curiously , most of the denominations have a written tradition. That is, they pass meaning using their own "articles" or confessions. They were written post reformation most countering the faith handed down from earliest times (eg on eucharist). So truly man made tradition! All the denominations view scripture through a tradition even if they dont write it. Eg on eucharist , many refer a passage in John " the words I speak are spirit and truth" to declare the eucharist symbolic. But that rides roughshod over the tradition handed down from the first times. And ignores the fact that the word used for "eat"my flesh means Gnaw, or that the audience at capernaum were horrified and left (proving He meant real blood!)

However go back to the early church, take some of the earliest documents, like Ignatius (disciple of John apostle) lettter to Smyrneans about bishop authority and the real presence in the eucharist. You see the meaning handed down with scripture.

From the earliest times you see Justin Martyr, Ignatius etc speak of real flesh in the eucharist.
Anasthasius (at council of nicea) says clearly that before the blessing is just wine and bread, after the blessing is the real body and blood of Christ.

That is tradition in action. The passing of meaning by tradition and authority.

Sola scriptura ditched it all. And sowed the seeds of division ever since.

Interesting answer. Within the answer was a direct statement of division as you said that the only true way is the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." That does not answer as to why there is so much division, but it does speak to the fact that there is truly division in those who claim to be in Christ. Thank you for your answer JoeT.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

So true. I would say though that, it's not that all the sects within the ambarella of Christianity are okay with such divisions, for I believe each sect wishes and hopes that all people would come to their sect alone as the true doctrines and beliefs of the faith. So, I think rather, that sects within Christianity generally just put up with the divisions at the least.

Biased pride is likely the reason for the divisions, in that, people are accustomed to using the Scriptures as proof texts to back up their beliefs and opinions.

Many sects have their own commentaries written by men to give deeper meanings that align with their particular beliefs and doctrines.

God's unadulterated Truth can be achieved by humbly trusting Lord Jesus enough to believe that the Gospel Revelation was indeed completely revealed to provide the full riches of complete understanding, and made plain to understand, so that those reading will understand and come to a knowledge of the Truth, just as God said it does.

In general, and to one degree or another, Christians have been so accustomed to believing they cannot understand the Scriptures without the use of commentaries or a Christian leader to tell them what it all means. This false understanding of their perceived own ineptitude is the fault of not only the leaders, but also Christians who appear to faithless or lazy to check what their leaders are teaching by Holy Scripture in context. Too lazy to read the Epistles in context the way they were meant to be read.

Commentaries are flowered with deeper understandings that reflect the beliefs and doctrines of the sects they belong to, and so these commentaries disagree on major issues with each other.

Christian leaders disagree with each other. That is why we have so many sects.

What are we to do? If we can just believe God, and prayerfully and humbly read each Epistle as a letter from beginning to end - without pre-bias - then God's Word will be made plain to understand to us. That is God's Promise. I have to believe this because that is what God stated through His Apostles.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV)
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Ephesians 3:4-5 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (NIV) 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 2:2-3 (NIV) 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB) 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Jude 3-4 (WEB) 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Blessings

So true. I would say though that, it's not that all the sects within the ambarella of Christianity are okay with such divisions, for I believe each sect wishes and hopes that all people would come to their sect alone as the true doctrines and beliefs of the faith. So, I think rather, that sects within Christianity generally just put up with the divisions at the least.

Biased pride is likely the reason for the divisions, in that, people are accustomed to using the Scriptures as proof texts to back up their beliefs and opinions.

Many sects have their own commentaries written by men to give deeper meanings that align with their particular beliefs and doctrines.

God's unadulterated Truth can be achieved by humbly trusting Lord Jesus enough to believe that the Gospel Revelation was indeed completely revealed to provide the full riches of complete understanding, and made plain to understand, so that those reading will understand and come to a knowledge of the Truth, just as God said it does.

In general, and to one degree or another, Christians have been so accustomed to believing they cannot understand the Scriptures without the use of commentaries or a Christian leader to tell them what it all means. This false understanding of their perceived own ineptitude is the fault of not only the leaders, but also Christians who appear to faithless or lazy to check what their leaders are teaching by Holy Scripture in context. Too lazy to read the Epistles in context the way they were meant to be read.

Commentaries are flowered with deeper understandings that reflect the beliefs and doctrines of the sects they belong to, and so these commentaries disagree on major issues with each other.

Christian leaders disagree with each other. That is why we have so many sects.

What are we to do? If we can just believe God, and prayerfully and humbly read each Epistle as a letter from beginning to end - without pre-bias - then God's Word will be made plain to understand to us. That is God's Promise. I have to believe this because that is what God stated through His Apostles.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV)
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Ephesians 3:4-5 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (NIV) 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 2:2-3 (NIV) 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

1 Peter 1:10-12 (WEB) 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently. They prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that they served not themselves, but you, in these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Jude 3-4 (WEB) 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Blessings

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. It is true that there is only one hope, one Lord, one Body, one truth, one way, and one life. If mankind would recognize that we can do nothing on our own and truly become completely dependent on our creator, then we will begin to take on the mind of Christ. Yet, as you mentioned, mankind is disobedient and biased to the end toward our creator and enjoys the pride of understanding. It is this pride, the opposite of the requisite humility it takes have a true relationship with the Lord, that separates us from one another. Therefore, if mankind would humble themselves before God and allow the mind of God to permeate their thoughts, they would share the same mindset. We expect our children to do just this so that they can learn and grow together. That is why Jesus said we must become like one of these little one's to have a place in His kingdom. Thus, like-mindedness is not a human trait, but instead it is a trait of God and can only be found if we surrender our own minds to take on the mind of Christ.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

I thought I was born again until Christ came to me and opened my eyes to See and ears to hear. Many are called but few are chosen. Seeking The Truth regardless of how difficult it might be to accept It is essential I believe. It wasn’t until shortly after my 36th birthday that He visited me. Have you ever read Numbers 16:29 and the entire story that surrounds It. You might find it to be illuminating. The word visitation has a very Spiritual meaning and can be found in other places in The Word.
Num.16

1. 
   [29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.

The Lord visited me in my home years ago and I surrendered everything to Him. This had nothing to do with today's false Christianity we see all around us. It was a supernatural encounter that produced a true spiritual rebirth within me and then He sent His advocate to live within me as my guide, teacher, and comforter. I praise Him for His truth and light, it has made the difference for my soul.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

I think you should go to a church where the members are taking their walk with God seriously. The doctrines are from my point of view of secondary importance. Of course the teaching needs to be Christ centered and sincere. I see nothing wrong with attending different churches, yet it's good to have a base, a home church for the sake of fellowship. It can take some time to find the right church.

Christ love,
Peter

Peter, thank you for your insight and advise!

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

There is one God, one Gospel, one Saviour, one Spirit. Anyone who accepts Christ as Saviour and Lord and trusts him for eternal life is born again, and anyone who is born again and has received the Spirit is a child of God.
Christians are told to abide in the Vine, to live IN Christ; Paul says that we died with him, are raised to new life and our life is hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3. We are new creations if are in Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and have every spiritual blessing in him, Ephesians 3:3.
So all Christians can, and should, be in Christ. And as Christ and his Father are one, whoever believes in, accepts and receives Christ, receives the Father, and is one with the Father, also. In fact, Jesus came and died so that we might be reconciled to God, and he is the only Way to the Father.



I don't think it was.
I think he is ok with us worshipping in different ways - we are all different after all. But to let different interpretations of Scripture, and different ideas separate us from each other, to the point of argument and animosity must be heart breaking for him. The devil will not destroy the church from the outside - persecution has always made us stronger and caused the church to grow. But he doesn't need to; he is doing a pretty good job of destroying it from within. If believers came together, worshipped and fellowshipped together and all, together, lived for Christ and IN him, the devil would feel so threatened that he'd have to try something drastic, and we'd really know what spiritual warfare was.



Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not ok with it; not at all.

An absolute blessing to read your detailed response. If we all would surrender our own minds and become like a child in how we trust the Lord for all things, we would all be able to take on the mind of Christ and be as one. However, most of mankind (the many) is like a disobedient child, and therefore will have no place in the kingdom just as Jesus explained in Matthew 18:2-5. Life in Christ is not, and never will be, about us. It is about our Lord and Creator and we are either true humble servants (the few) of the Lord, or we are lost souls in need of a savior. Thanks!

 

[Clare73]

We're focused on the wrong measure. Let's take a look at Jesus' prayer of Jn 17.
Jn 17:9 - "I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours."
Jesus is praying only for the born again of the Holy Spirit.
Jn 17:20-21 - "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message. . ."
Jesus is praying for those who will be born again of the Holy Spirit in the future.

Jn 17:21 - ". . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be one in us so that the world may believe you have sent me."

Jesus is praying that all the born again of the Holy Spirit may be one.

Jesus prayer was not a wishful request.
It is part of his Last Will and Testament, of which the Father is the Executor.

There are many tares in the professing church, most of them not even realizing they are tares.
There will be no unity among tares, nor can there be unity between the born again of the Holy Spirit and tares.

The Executor of Jesus Last Will and Testament has not failed in his fiduciary duty.
I submit that where the born again of the Holy Spirit are gathered, there is unity, regardless of denomination.
And that's not based on idle speculation.

The prayer is for the Twelve,

Wouldn't the prayer be for the eleven, since Judas was a traitor?

that they might be one. [Cf. vs.11]. He sanctifies them in truth vs. 19. After sending them into the world, vs 18. The Twelve represent the Church. The "born again-ers" are not represented in these verses.

Perhaps you should review Jn 17:20-21.

God did not execute His son, that's sick.

An Executor is not an executer.

 

[HenSoma-OneBody]

Wouldn't the prayer be for the eleven, since Judas was a traitor?

Perhaps you should review Jn 17:20-21.

An Executor is not an executer.

I do not think JoeT understands your point, but I do Clare73.