What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I know where it is written but today those two are fulfilled by The Commandments of Christ and not by The works of the law. Where it is written in the old testament is in relation to the law not the New testament. Therefore those words in the old testament are just that old. The new although similar is in relation to the New testament and the Commandments of Christ.

Yet Yeshua quotes them...so old and new are the same.

 

[psalm911]

Yet Yeshua quotes them...so old and new are the same.

The man asked what was the great commandment in the law not the New testament.

All the Commandments of Christ although some similar in some ways to the old testament are not according to the old testament but the new. People are confused when they hear some Commandments of Christ that are similar to the old testament. Every commandment out of the mouth of Jesus Christ is a new testament commandment even if it sounds similar to what you read in the old.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The man asked what was the great commandment in the law not the New testament.

All the Commandments of Christ although some similar in some ways to the old testament are not according to the old testament but the new. People are confused when they hear some Commandments of Christ that are similar to the old testament. Every commandment out of the mouth of Jesus Christ is a new testament commandment even if it sounds similar to what you read in the old.

Yeshua was a Jew so He knew, taught and followed Torah...so when does the NT start and the OT end...at his birth, death, resurrection? So we are only to listen to anything once the NT begins?

 

[Tone]

The new part about it is that He fulfilled them to give us an example of how to do them:

John 13:34-35
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

 

[psalm911]

Yeshua was a Jew so He knew, taught and followed Torah...

Yes he fulfilled the law, When he died for his neighbor, as it is written, greater Love has no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. Then by his death all things that he commanded became law, as it is written, a testament is a force after men are dead.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes he fulfilled the law, When he died for his neighbor, as it is written, greater Love has no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. Then by his death all things that he commanded became law, as it is written, a testament is a force after men are dead.

All I ever hear is that He fulfilled the law so we don't have to...what He commanded was already law...

 

[1stcenturylady]

Your claim is this war isn't a current problem for Paul.

Correct. As Romans 8:2 says, we a now under the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ, and set free of (Romans 7) the law of sin and death. Paul was also set free and walked in the Spirit.

 

[klutedavid]

I certainly did not agree with what you wrote.

Being converted to Christ does not mean that we escape from the obligation to follow God's moral Law. It is the Mosaic ceremonial Law that we leave behind.

When I see the phrase, 'the law', in the New Testament I read it as the entire written law.

I do not see a clear distinction between moral law and ceremonial law in the written law.

Well Oscar, how about you tell me what you think of the following verse. Is the verse below a ceremonial law or a moral law?

Exodus 21:16
He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.

 

[ace of hearts]

I have, that is why I posted it. I have no idea what you are talking about.

This can't be found in the OT -

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

 

[ace of hearts]

those commandments are from The Torah...

No JN 13:34 isn't a commandment from the Torah. Read and compare the whole text.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I certainly did not agree with what you wrote.

When I see the phrase, 'the law', in the New Testament I read it as the entire written law.

I do not see a clear distinction between moral law and ceremonial law in the written law.

Well Oscar, how about you tell me what you think of the following verse. Is the verse below a ceremonial law or a moral law?

Exodus 21:16
He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.

The Ten Commandments and the moral commandments outlined by Moses make up God's moral Law. But there were other ceremonial regulations, for example, ritual hand washing, offering of sacrifices, etc., that became obsolete when the Christian church was born at Pentecost.

Your quote is from God's moral law. The legalist will comply with a commandment like that because he wants to avoid death. That would be his principal motive. But the converted believer would see it as something that would be against God's glory and would abhor it because he loves God and seeks to do the utmost good for all others, which would bring him happiness and joy.

 

[klutedavid]

I wanted to get back to this ...

Could you further explain what you mean by your statement "You cannot die (earthly death) in your sins" ???

The world was under the sentence of death, the whole world was guilty before God.

The law deeply testified that Israel was in full rebellion against God. That is what the law was designed to do, the law condemns you, the law is really telling you that you are not a good person.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The law said that if you break the law you die, that is 'the law of sin and death'. If you are set free from this law, 'the law of sin and death', then you are truly free, delivered, liberated, and redeemed.

If you are not free of 'the law of sin and death', then you are under the curse of the law.

You are either under the condemnation of the law or you are not under that condemnation, there is no middle ground.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No JN 13:34 isn't a commandment from the Torah. Read and compare the whole text.

A converted believer will follow the moral commands of the Torah because he loves God and following them would be his pleasure and joy, and not out of the fear of punishment and condemnation. He know that he is justified by faith in Christ and therefore is free from condemnation and punishment so he is now free to do what he loves most - complying with and enjoying God's commandments as expressed in the Torah and the commands of Jesus which are in total harmony with each other.

It is all in the motivation and reasons why a converted believer follows the moral laws to the best of his ability. I have no problem at all complying to the moral commandments of the Torah, because I know that complying with them did not save me, but I love it when I can comply with the laws because then I can live a life that represents Jesus to the world and brings Him praise and glory.

 

[ace of hearts]

Correct. As Romans 8:2 says, we a now under the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ, and set free of (Romans 7) the law of sin and death. Paul was also set free and walked in the Spirit.

I can't agree with you at all when I observe and pay attention to my body function in all respects. Mostly the war for me over my soul and sin comes from the enemy of my soul that hates God places in my mind. The enemy takes several things into consideration when trying to temp me to do evil. The more I withdraw from general public the more problem I have with the general public and the enemy of my soul. I hate having to go to town. I love my more private situation in the country. Maybe some day I can even dispose of my transportation needs and not ever have to go to town.

 

[ace of hearts]

Yet Yeshua quotes them...so old and new are the same.

No Jesus doesn't, read and compare the texts.

 

[ace of hearts]

Yeshua was a Jew so He knew, taught and followed Torah...so when does the NT start and the OT end...at his birth, death, resurrection? So we are only to listen to anything once the NT begins?

We disagree that Jesus taught the Torah. I base that largely on JN 1:17.

In that the NT is about the New Covenant, yes we're to ignore the OT or the covenant given solely to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt.

 

[ace of hearts]

The new part about it is that He fulfilled them to give us an example of how to do them:

John 13:34-35
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Ah so! Were you coerced to this confession? Indeed the above isn't found in the OT.

 

[ace of hearts]

All I ever hear is that He fulfilled the law so we don't have to...what He commanded was already law...

What is the argument generally about when you engage in this type of argument?

 

[ace of hearts]

A converted believer will follow the moral commands of the Torah because he loves God and following them would be his pleasure and joy, and not out of the fear of punishment and condemnation. He know that he is justified by faith in Christ and therefore is free from condemnation and punishment so he is now free to do what he loves most - complying with and enjoying God's commandments as expressed in the Torah and the commands of Jesus which are in total harmony with each other.

It is all in the motivation and reasons why a converted believer follows the moral laws to the best of his ability. I have no problem at all complying to the moral commandments of the Torah, because I know that complying with them did not save me, but I love it when I can comply with the laws because then I can live a life that represents Jesus to the world and brings Him praise and glory.

A true believer follows the teaching of Jesus, never the law or any part of the law. LK 6:31, JN 13:34

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Oscarr and thanks for the reply.

The Ten Commandments and the moral commandments outlined by Moses make up God's moral Law.

That is a better reply but still way short of the mark.

Are you also ignoring the sins that the prophets highlighted that are not written in the law?

For example drunkenness is not in the law yet the apostles spoke of drunkenness, because the prophets spoke of it.

But there were other ceremonial regulations, for example, ritual hand washing, offering of sacrifices, etc., that became obsolete when the Christian church was born at Pentecost.

If one jot falls from the law then the entire law falls.

You can't divide the law into moral and ceremonial law and then cherry pick from the law, according to what you think is moral law.

The law or Torah is one complete unit and cannot be divided.

The law is made for evil people to reveal to them what they truly are; wicked people!

Attempting to obey the law does not make anyone a good person, a righteous person. That is why the sacrifices in the law were conducted repeatedly because people will sin regardless.

A person who has any integrity will never say that they are a righteous person, a law abiding person.

If someone has personal integrity they will freely admit that they are not a good person, that they are a sinner saved by grace.

There is no such thing as good people and bad people in this world, that is a clever delusion.

All are deceived to some extent, all are sinners, God could rightly destroy everyone at any time with no exceptions.

There are only forgiven people and those that are not forgiven. Those that trust Jesus and those that love their sin. The law simply tells you that you need Jesus, the law is the shadow.