What Christians really think about hell and Judgment

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selfinflikted

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We are at war with sin, and people mess up, no doubt. But to equate that with a Christian commiting murder is a strawman.

lol How is that a strawman? Are you saying that Christians only screw up a little bit at times, but never that bad? Tell me the different levels of sin again, and how they are all unequal?
 
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Tnmusicman

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Because he never repented. Sin isn't just murder or theft. Many sins happen when we don't even realize it. Looking at that beautiful woman in a lustful way, is a sin. Lying, no matter how small, is a sin. And as I recall, Bill Gates ripped a guy off to get to where he is now, so he's pretty guilty of sin. If we could work our way to heaven by being good,then Jesus wouldn't have had to die for us. The only way to bypass Jesus to get to heaven in to live a perfectly pure life. That's impossible. I once heard sin put a pretty good way. We as humans are standing at street level. Our moral code is about eye level. Lying is only about waist high in our moral code, while muderers and rapists and such would be down at foot level, real scum of the earth. But God doesn't see things from our level. He sees them from the level of the empire state buildings roof. So when he looks down, all those sins are still sins, and still fall unbelievably short of His standards. A true Christian will not commit murder. A true Christian has been changed by the blood of Christ.


I love the sin analogy! Very good and very accurate though most people will never view through that lens. We ALL could learn a good lesson by that analogy!
 
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razeontherock

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Want to post something helpful? Why not chime in on how YOU feel about "True Christians" and how they never knowingly sin.

Because that has NOTHING to do with the OP.

Perhaps you would like a separate thread to explore the ineptness of the no true scotsman fallacy being glued onto Christianity, or sin as a whole? This thread has a significantly different purpose.
 
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razeontherock

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That humans are sinful creatures that are going to be torture forever if they do not accept Jesus death on the cross as substitutionary atonement for their sins is basic Christian doctrine. Not liking it will not change hundreds of years of doctrine.

You still spout, what you do not know. It is somewhat related to the OP, in a tangential kind of way. You keep doping your best to avoid the content of the OP though ...
 
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razeontherock

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lol How is that a strawman? Are you saying that Christians only screw up a little bit at times, but never that bad? Tell me the different levels of sin again, and how they are all unequal?

This actually pinpoints the weakness in the chosen verbiage much better, but again; not the thread topic. Notice we keep devolving into stereotypes, rather than finding out what real live Christians actually think?
 
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usexpat97

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I have not taken the time to carefully peruse this thread, but I would just cast my vote and say that I, a Christian, believe there is a judgement and there is a Hell. And if the verdict is guilty, that's where you go. Jesus paid the price for our sin, and those who accept His gift of salvation are pronounced "innocent". Nothing new here. There is no "secret belief" that maybe there really is no Hell, or judgement, or God. It's pretty much exactly Christianity, as advertised.
 
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Rajni

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[FONT=verdana,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]
Interesting thread! The following caught my eye:
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These people can't inherit the Kingdom unless they knew Christ as their Lord in this life. This is why they will be citizens of the kingdom, but not KINGs of it.
[/FONT][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]Back when I was still Christian and therefore posted in the Unorthodox section, I would occasionally make that distinction regarding the difference I saw between inheriting a kingdom and merely inhabiting it [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][FONT=verdana,sans-serif](one instance can be found at the end of a post here)[/FONT][/FONT]. Not all a kingdom's inhabitants are necessarily a kingdom's inheritors. [/FONT][/FONT] :)

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If a Christian willingly sins, then they aren't saved. Period. Do we mess up? Sure, but there's a huge difference between cussing and commiting murder isn't there.
Well, I'm not sure we can accurately gauge the severity of a sin from our standpoint. After all, if the Adam & Eve story is true, then the sin which got all mankind into trouble in the first place was the simple act of eating fruit off the wrong tree. By our standards, that's not nearly as bad as murder, yet look where it got us. So who's to say cussing won't land a Christian in some hot water as well? ;)
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We are at war with sin, and people mess up, no doubt.
[/FONT][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]What sin? I thought Christianity teaches that the Lamb of God took it away. Why would we be at war with something that is said to have been eliminated?[/FONT]

[/FONT]
 
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Belk

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We are at war with sin, and people mess up, no doubt. But to equate that with a Christian commiting murder is a strawman.


Are you really going to try to tell us Christians are incapable of murder? All those guys on death row are doomed to hell no matter how repentant they are?
 
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selfinflikted

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This actually pinpoints the weakness in the chosen verbiage much better, but again; not the thread topic. Notice we keep devolving into stereotypes, rather than finding out what real live Christians actually think?

My bad, I thought asking questions was the best way to find out what you all think. I guess I'll stop asking and just start assuming, then. :doh:
 
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selfinflikted

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Neither are orthodox

Jesus paid the price for our sin, and those who accept His gift of salvation are pronounced "innocent". Nothing new here. There is no "secret belief" that maybe there really is no Hell, or judgement, or God. It's pretty much exactly Christianity, as advertised.

Let me know when you all come to a consensus on this, huh?
 
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someguy14

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So how does one "unwillingly sin" as a Christian? Devil made you do it?

Why do Christians have that cop-out.....sorry! excuse, and non-Christians don't?

Deep think for a second. If wickedness didn't exist, wicked deeds wouldn't exist.

(That is valuable, please don't hate me too much.)

In other words, the ignorant(servants of wickedness) aren't innocent and the innocent aren't ignorant.
 
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someguy14

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lol How is that a strawman? Are you saying that Christians only screw up a little bit at times, but never that bad? Tell me the different levels of sin again, and how they are all unequal?

Understand, at least for a second, for conscience sake. The wicked serve wickedness constantly, the ones that serve God(goodness itself) are attacked by wickedness constantly.

Willfully serving wickedness is 100% against God. Getting attacked and slipping when for God(goodness), isn't willfull service unto wickedness. God alone is all wisdom.
 
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Gadarene

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Deep think for a second. If wickedness didn't exist, wicked deeds wouldn't exist.

(That is valuable, please don't hate me too much.)

In other words, the ignorant(servants of wickedness) aren't innocent and the innocent aren't ignorant.

Non-sequitur, but taking your first statement for a moment: so someone who commits any kind of sin, regardless of what they believe, is engaging in a wicked act. This does nothing to justify the claim that Christians don't willingly sin. All this does is (assuming I've guessed your latest pseudo-profundity correctly) categorise sinful acts as the product of some nature. But an act is sinful regardless of who does it. So by inference, the same nature exists in both sinning Christians and non-Christians. There is nothing here that distinguishes a sinning Christian and non-Christian, but somehow this is supposed to separate the Christian from the non-Christian as not a wilful sinner.
 
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Gadarene

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Understand, at least for a second, for conscience sake. The wicked serve wickedness constantly, the ones that serve God(goodness itself) are attacked by wickedness constantly.

Willfully serving wickedness is 100% against God. Getting attacked and slipping when for God(goodness), isn't willfull service unto wickedness. God alone is all wisdom.

Of course it is wilful. How long you spend in a particular state has nothing necessarily to do with your willingness to be in that state. What utter nonsense.
 
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Gadarene

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selfinflikted

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Understand, at least for a second, for conscience sake. The wicked serve wickedness constantly, the ones that serve God(goodness itself) are attacked by wickedness constantly.

Willfully serving wickedness is 100% against God. Getting attacked and slipping when for God(goodness), isn't willfull service unto wickedness. God alone is all wisdom.

So what are you trying to say? Are there two people now trying to say when Christians sin, it isn't willful? Ridiculous.
 
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Gadarene

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My usual response to this kind of "you silly atheists, of course hell doesn't mean what you think it does, why aren't you listening to Christians" thread.

Preamble - actually, plenty of Christians do have the usual hellfire for the unsaved conception of hell, and we're well aware of the alternatives. But, as ever, simply spraying your alternative personal interpretation of the Bible at us is a surefire way to fail to convince us of the validity of your interpretation and the invalidity of others (which goes as much for the hellfire-for-the-unsaved crowd too.

Response: This is less of a big deal for you if your conception of hell is wrong, as you're still saved and would still avoid hell if the hellfire-for-the-unsaved crowd are right. By contrast, if we listen to you and you're wrong, then we're really in for it when we die. The stakes are higher for us than for you.

To finish, and to give my own reaction to these various permutations, the quote that sadly wasn't made by Marcus Aurelius, but anyhoo:

good_life.jpg
 
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