What Christians really think about hell and Judgment

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razeontherock

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This topic comes up a lot. I came across this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7692841/

No, NC's can't post there. But you can transplant the discussion here, or simply read what actual Christians actually have to say for themselves, rather than relying on ... lesser sources.
 

jayem

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The dogma of salvation by faith alone has always been problematic. It's hard to reconcile that with a God who is supposed to be omnibenevolent and perfectly merciful. To complicate it even more, different denominations can have varying doctrines. Full blown, 5-point Calvinists believe we have no choice in whether we accept Jesus or not. Most other Christians don't buy this. But if you believe that God is ultimately sovereign in all things, that is the logical conclusion.
 
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tannicv2

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Only God can choose who goes to heaven or hell or judgement. I believe in Matthew 7 it says judge not so we can't be judged. Therefore I don't judge unless I really have to and I judge according to how I follow God. From what I've understood over the years is that we are all sinful. And some that say their christians are really not christians at heart. They so busy saying it they forget you have to walk the walk as well.
 
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Desk trauma

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Yes, because that handful of posters is representative of all Christianity.

The base doctrine of Christianity is that humans deserve to be tortured for all eternity for being human.
 
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selfinflikted

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The base doctrine of Christianity is that humans deserve to be tortured for all eternity for being human.

But, because of a blood sacrifice, I can go out and shoot some random guy in the head and instantly be forgiven, if I am "truly" sorry.! I'm starting to see the appeal... :p
 
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selfinflikted said:
But, because of a blood sacrifice, I can go out and shoot some random guy in the head and instantly be forgiven, if I am "truly" sorry.! I'm starting to see the appeal... :p

Hate to jump in on a blind post here,but this is silly. I get you're probably going to an extreme here to try to make a point,but I'm afraid its a swing and a miss...
 
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Desk trauma

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Hate to jump in on a blind post here,but this is silly. I get you're probably going to an extreme here to try to make a point,but I'm afraid its a swing and a miss...

In what way is it a swing and a miss? Christian murderers go to heaven, atheist humanitarians burn in hell for all eternity or is there some point of Christian salvation doctrine that I am missing?
 
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selfinflikted

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Hate to jump in on a blind post here,but this is silly. I get you're probably going to an extreme here to try to make a point,but I'm afraid its a swing and a miss...

The example is an extreme one, but how is it untrue?
 
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Desk trauma said:
In what way is it a swing and a miss? Christian murderers go to heaven, atheist humanitarians burn in hell for all eternity or is there some point of Christian salvation doctrine that I am missing?

First, a true Christian will not commit murder in thr first place. Second, it isn't a matter of 'being really sorry", its a matter of ones life being completely transformed by their salvation. Are their people who commit murder and then go on to become Christians, sure. But it isn't a matter of running out, killing someone, and then going "ok God I messed up, forgive me!". That's childish at best.
 
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selfinflikted

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First, a true Christian will not commit murder in thr first place. Second, it isn't a matter of 'being really sorry", its a matter of ones life being completely transformed by their salvation. Are their people who commit murder and then go on to become Christians, sure. But it isn't a matter of running out, killing someone, and then going "ok God I messed up, forgive me!". That's childish at best.

Yea, it is that simple according to doctrine. The caveat is you have to *really* be sorry.
 
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selfinflikted said:
The example is an extreme one, but how is it untrue?

As I told desktrauma, its not a matter of killing someone and it being ok. A true Christian will not commit murder in the first place. You cannot go out and willingly kill someone. If you do, then you weren't truly honest when you asked for salvation, and therefore were never saved. You can toss put hypotheticals but they won't stand up.
 
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selfinflikted said:
Yea, it is that simple according to doctrine. The caveat is you have to *really* be sorry.

No,it isn't. Youve over simplified it and removed the entire point. I can be really sorry all day, and guess what I can still end up in hell without Jesus. If I commit a conscious act of sin willingly, then I wasn't saved to begin with, again making your hypothesis null and void.
 
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selfinflikted

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No,it isn't. Youve over simplified it and removed the entire point. I can be really sorry all day, and guess what I can still end up in hell without Jesus. If I commit a conscious act of sin willingly, then I wasn't saved to begin with, again making your hypothesis null and void.

Christians sin willingly all the time, every day. Yet, when they repent and ask forgiveness, according to basic doctrine, they are forgiven. Simple as that.
 
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Desk trauma

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First, a true Christian will not commit murder in thr first place. Second, it isn't a matter of 'being really sorry", its a matter of ones life being completely transformed by their salvation.

When in doubt, no true Scotsman.

Are their people who commit murder and then go on to become Christians, sure. But it isn't a matter of running out, killing someone, and then going "ok God I messed up, forgive me!". That's childish at best.

It's your doctrine, not mine. If someone commits murder, prior to or after being "saved", then repents of their sin they would be granted heaven whereas a non-Christian philanthropist such as Bill Gates will be tortured for all eternity.
 
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selfinflikted said:
Christians sin willingly all the time, every day. Yet, when they repent and ask forgiveness, according to basic doctrine, they are forgiven. Simple as that.

If a Christian willingly sins, then they aren't saved. Period. Do we mess up? Sure, but there's a huge difference between cussing and commiting murder isn't there.
 
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razeontherock

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a God who is supposed to be omnibenevolent

False premise. Untenable.

and perfectly merciful.

Even this might be an over-statement. He has balanced justice with mercy; an amazing feat which is quite enough, IMHO.

To complicate it even more, different denominations can have varying doctrines.

4 out of 5 statisticians agree, that those using this as their argument don't understand the significance of said differences, nor the common bond that remains.

Full blown, 5-point Calvinists believe we have no choice in whether we accept Jesus or not. Most other Christians don't buy this. But if you believe that God is ultimately sovereign in all things, that is the logical conclusion.

Nah, not even close. Drive your car on the highway, at the top speed you can or will. Let go of the wheel, and see how long it takes to make a total mess. Notice how well this illustrates your ability to choose? Notice how it has nothing whatsoever to do with "God's ultimate sovereignty?" No possible rebuttal to this.
 
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