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Featured What "Believers" Refuse to Believe (Part 1)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by TogetherInHim, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Bad translation imo .
    Jesus said if you give a cup of water to somebody you won't lose your reward , you don't need to make everything perfect to receive a reward .

    For good deeds you get gold , precious stones
    For bad you get wood , hay

    Then the fire is testing everything , what's left you can carry away , the wood and hay will be burned , gold does not burn .
     
  2. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree ...
     
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I’m curious where it is stated that the Eucharist must be performed by a bishop?
     
  4. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    1. Define by reference to the Bible WHICH JUDGMENT(S) is/are being referred to:

    a. JUDGMENT of the NATIONS? ...Psalm 9:19 ; Matthew 25: 31-36 f

    b. JUDGMENT of the Believers' Works?...1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 ; 2 Corinthians 5 : 6-10

    c. The GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT...sentencing of unbelievers...Revelation 20: 11-15 (NASB)

    d. BELIEVING SURVIVORS of the GREAT TRIBULATION...Revelation 7: 9-17

    e. JUDGMENT of Fallen Spirits: Revelation 20: 1-10

    f. JUDGMENT of the Nation Israel....the Major Prophets + Matthew 19:27-30 (NASB)

    John 5:24
    “Truly, truly, I say to you,
    he who hears My word,
    and believes Him who sent Me,
    has eternal life, and
    does not come into judgment,
    but has passed out of death into life.
     
  5. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    There are two stipulations in John 5:24 brother to hearth and believe. The word heareth is translated from the Greek word akouo


    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    heareth


    G191


    Lemma:

    ἀκούω


    Transliteration:

    akoúō


    Pronounce:

    ak-oo'-o


    Part of Speech:

    Verb


    Language:

    greek


    Description:

    1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf

    2) to hear b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said

    3) to hear something a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence b) to get by hearing learn c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher e) to comprehend, to understand

    So believing is not the only requirement mentioned in John 5:24.
     
  6. TogetherInHim

    TogetherInHim Newbie Supporter

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    When you merge "salvation" which is the free gift of God that comes by grace through faith, with our promised "inheritance" which is also free, you will not be able to see that there are detailed conditions associated with meeting the Lord's expectations in appropriating our "inheritance".

    If the Lord gives you a field, seed, water and sunlight that is all free, and instructs you to work the field, he has the expectation that you demonstrate that you understand and bring forth produce, does that mean that it wasn't really free?

    If we know that the Lord expects those who receive "salvation" from our death sentence that Adam brought upon the world, and we have an "inheritance" (the "treasure" and "pearl of great price"), then we should joyfully work the field so we can please him so as to receive the reward.

    You are correct about confusing two issues. You are merging the two. At "salvation", we are given eternal life from our death sentence and a promise of reward, the kingdom of heaven, our "Inheritance". "Discipleship" is the Lord's expected response to his free gifts of both salvation and our inheritance.

    27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
    Jesus is not talking about "salvation". He is talking about those who wish to follow him into the kingdom of heaven. There is a cost of following Him into the kingdom that does not "earn" the kingdom, but demonstrates that we value "the treasure hidden in a field" and do whatever is necessary "to buy that field"...as the parable says...

    Jesus continues...

    28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

    29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

    30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

    31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?



    32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.


    33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


    34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?


    35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Those that have received "salvation" will face decisions that cost them as disciples that have rewards (entrance to the kingdom of heaven) or consequences (being cast out).
     
  7. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    "works" after salvation are judged, but ALL believers appear on the Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ. Rewards or losses do not effect salvation.
     
  8. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    A fruitless carnal Christ-follower remains saved.

    John 15
    8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
    9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
    10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
    11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

    Disciples’ Relation to Each Other

    12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
     
  9. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your thoughts seem to have gotten lost and I cannot understand what point your attempting to make.

    Is there a way you can make a clear point in a succinct manner so that I may understand you?
     
  10. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Where do you see a fruitless Christ follower here in these verses?
     
  11. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's really no such thing as a fruitless Christ-follower ... as it becomes our NATURE to produce fruit.

    Jesus said if you give a cup of water to somebody you won't lose your reward.
     
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  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Will you please answer my question in post 40?
     
  13. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Yes, God must spiritually enable you to hear. Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit says.
     
  14. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Like Esau you can give away your birthright.
     
  15. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Faith is not the gift in Eph. 2:8, but the salvation which comes through faith and not works.
     
  16. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Or his appointee.
    Ignatius to smyrneans.
    He/polycarp( of Smyrna) knew/ were disciples of John the apostle. If John didn't know what john6 means who does?
    All the earliest fathers, Justin martyr etc were adamant about the bishops.
     
  17. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Forgive me I don't know Roman Catholic church history..

    So, your saying this Ignatius personally met/knew/studied under the Apostle John.. ?
     
  18. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think that this left Esau without any inheritance. Essentially, he "suffered loss" of his inheritance advantage ...
     
  19. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I absolutely agree with you.

    However, if I can deduce the intent of this thread correctly (Which is quite difficult I might add.. lol) is that there are some who are attaching works to us getting into heaven as if we are under law again.

    To my mind, that is absolutely incorrect... what we should rather do, is teach/enable Christians to be/become fruitful in Christ as they grow in discipleship - not preach people back under law via works.
     
  20. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Yes, ALL God's people who are born again and live according to the Spirit, meaning they have been given life, they are alive to God, will bear good fruit. If you do not bear good fruit then you are cut down and thrown into the fire.

    Matthew 3:10
    And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    Believing in Christ is a good fruit of the Spirit who is at work in you.

    There are only the fruits of the Spirit versus the fruits of the flesh.
     
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