• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What are your thoughts on this?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,873
15,142
PNW
✟971,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Misleading title, as it’s not actually giving sex changes to 13 year olds. Did you actually read the article or are you just googling and pasting based on titles?
Services include “gender-affirming medications (estrogen, androgen blockers, testosterone, etc.) and injection techniques,” “hormone therapy for adolescents and specialty referrals for younger patients as needed,” and “referrals for gender-affirming surgeries.”

FX6W3L7UcAAsGgg


 
  • Like
Reactions: BPPLEE
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,044
7,501
61
Montgomery
✟253,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are a couple of problems I'd like to address. And we can use the last of the links you gave to discuss it.

Firstly, citing individual examples and then extrapolating them to the whole is nothing but a debate tactic. If you have an idiotic parent who is a Christian or a bad teacher in any one example then it's nonsensical to say it's representative of all Christians, all teachers or representative of the topic in question. But people on both sides of the political divide do it. It needs to stop.

Secondly, media outlets need to make a buck so online versions want you to click their link. And they will write the headlines as bait. We are all familiar with this. And this headline is no different. It gives the impression of some secret attempts by teachers to inculcate students to transition and purposely keeping that information from parents. That was not the case. It actually involves one set of parents and their two children. More details can be found here:


The facts of the matter are that one of the children appeared distressed and troubled at school. The teacher did the right thing and contacted the parents. I might note that that is not necessarily the first step in some instances. If the child appears to be suffering from abuse at home then the parents aren't the first port of call. You don't ring a father and tell him that his daughter says he's been assaulting her. There are well thought out protocols for addressing certain situations. I know because I teach young children part time and there are very definite procedures as to who needs to be told of any concerns about any child. But in this case the teacher did the right thing.

The child then disclosed to the teacher that she was having problems regarding gender. The teacher offered support and to act as a liason with her parents if needed. The parents then emailed the teacher, thanked her and said that they would be seeking professional help and please leave the matter with them and not to discuss it with their daughter.

Now, is there anything so far about secret moves to transition children? Anyone overstepping any reasonable lines of authority? Any underhand moves being made? Of course not. Everyone has done the right thing.

The girl then sent an email to the school saying that she wanted to be known by a different name and pronouns and the school complied.

Now here is the actual problem. They didn't contact the parents to tell them of the email. I personally think they should have as it wasn't anything that needed to be kept from them. And in fact might have been helpful to the parents if they had that info. Was it a big deal? Well, if I were one of the parents I would have been frustrated. The school was obviously open in contacting them in the first instance so there certainly wasn't any intentional subterfuge in keeping the child's problems from them. They had been quite open and helpful. So I put it down to them either not thinking it was important enough and the child would have told her parents in any case, or it was a simple clerical error.

Either way, it is most definitely NOT an example of some secret attempts by teachers to transition children. That conclusion, from the facts, would be completely nonsensical at best. And, in my opinion, at worst, a deliberate attempt to suggest some underhanded ideology by our educators to infiltrate the minds of our youth.

Now I'm not saying that you are being underhanded. But I'll bet that you didn't dig any deeper than the story given in your link. If the only story that you had available was the one I gave, which is where your linked story came from, I'm certain that you wouldn't have used it. Because all there was was some minor breakdown in communication and that was it. But the parents flared up and mentioned all sorts of unrelated library problems etc (you know, the usual suspects for a court case by frustrated Christian parents) and decided, as is the American way, to sue.

So, what sort of burger do we have here? One of the nothing variety I'd guess. Now do we need to go through each one that you posted to find a real example of some wrong doing? Because if we find one, that's all it will be. A teacher doing the wrong thing. Maybe needing a slap on the wrist. But what it won't be is an example of what is happening nation wide.
That was one example. Children are being allowed to transition at schools without their parents knowledge. That’s a fact. Even the New York Times doesn’t dispute that
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,044
7,501
61
Montgomery
✟253,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
They report nothing of the kind, as @Bradskii has had the infinite patience to explain to you. You should read his post.
You should read it. He didn’t mention the New York Times article
 
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,873
15,142
PNW
✟971,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That was one example. Children are being allowed to transition at schools without their parents knowledge. That’s a fact. Even the New York Times doesn’t dispute that
Transing kids has suddenly become an intense fad within the school system. Along with schools supplying lots of LGBTQIA2+ material. Yet somehow they're not really coming for our children and trying to convert them.
 
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,873
15,142
PNW
✟971,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You think we're sinful
You fight against our rights
You say we all lead live you can't respect
But you're just frightened
You think that we'll corrupt your kids
If our agenda goes unchecked
Funny, just this once, you're correct

We'll convert your children
Happens bit by bit
Quietly and subtlety
And you will barely notice it
You can keep them from disco
Warn about San Francisco
Make 'em wear pleated pants
We don't care...
We'll convert your children...
We'll make them tolerant and fair

Just like you worriеd
They'll change their group of friеnds
You won't approve of where they go at night
(to protests)
Oh, and you'll be disgusted
(so gross)
When they start finding things online
That you've kept far from their sight
(like information...)
Guess what?
You'll still be alright!

We'll convert your children
Reaching one and all
There's really no escaping it
'cause even grandma likes Rupaul
And the world's getting kinder
Gen Z's gayer than Grindr
Learn to love
Learn to vogue
Face your fate!
We'll convert your children
Someone's gotta teach them not to hate

We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
We're coming for them
We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
For your children

You're children will care about
Fairness and justice for others
Your children will work to convert
All their sisters and brothers
Then, soon, we're almost certain
You're kids will start convertin' you!

The gay agenda is coming home
The gay agenda is here!

But you don't have to worry
'cause there's nothing wrong with
Standing by our side
Get on board in a hurry
Because the world always needs
A bit more pride

But you don't have to worry
'cause there's nothing wrong with
Standing by our side
(The Gay Agenda)
Get on board in a hurry
Because the world always needs
A bit more pride
(The Gay Agenda)

Come on, try a little pride!

We'll convert your children
Then we'll turn to you
Giving up the fear inside
Is freeing like you never knew!

Go and see San Francisco!
Go and turn up that disco!
You'll forget you were ever upset
We'll convert your children
And make an ally of you yet!
We'll make an ally of you yet!
We'll make an ally of you yet!
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,044
7,501
61
Montgomery
✟253,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You think we're sinful
You fight against our rights
You say we all lead live you can't respect
But you're just frightened
You think that we'll corrupt your kids
If our agenda goes unchecked
Funny, just this once, you're correct

We'll convert your children
Happens bit by bit
Quietly and subtlety
And you will barely notice it
You can keep them from disco
Warn about San Francisco
Make 'em wear pleated pants
We don't care...
We'll convert your children...
We'll make them tolerant and fair

Just like you worriеd
They'll change their group of friеnds
You won't approve of where they go at night
(to protests)
Oh, and you'll be disgusted
(so gross)
When they start finding things online
That you've kept far from their sight
(like information...)
Guess what?
You'll still be alright!

We'll convert your children
Reaching one and all
There's really no escaping it
'cause even grandma likes Rupaul
And the world's getting kinder
Gen Z's gayer than Grindr
Learn to love
Learn to vogue
Face your fate!
We'll convert your children
Someone's gotta teach them not to hate

We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
We're coming for them
We're coming for them
We're coming for your children
For your children

You're children will care about
Fairness and justice for others
Your children will work to convert
All their sisters and brothers
Then, soon, we're almost certain
You're kids will start convertin' you!

The gay agenda is coming home
The gay agenda is here!

But you don't have to worry
'cause there's nothing wrong with
Standing by our side
Get on board in a hurry
Because the world always needs
A bit more pride

But you don't have to worry
'cause there's nothing wrong with
Standing by our side
(The Gay Agenda)
Get on board in a hurry
Because the world always needs
A bit more pride
(The Gay Agenda)

Come on, try a little pride!

We'll convert your children
Then we'll turn to you
Giving up the fear inside
Is freeing like you never knew!

Go and see San Francisco!
Go and turn up that disco!
You'll forget you were ever upset
We'll convert your children
And make an ally of you yet!
We'll make an ally of you yet!
We'll make an ally of you yet!
I’m laughing, not at the song but at the people who are defending this
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,209
15,842
72
Bondi
✟374,100.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Read the New York Times article for an accurate account that addresses both sides of the issue. Clearly this is going on there is also an article linked from AP. Does an autistic minor child need to making decisions about getting a mastectomy without the parents involvement?
I'll do that at some point*. But how many of the links you posted will turn out like the one I picked at random? If you are not going to give these cases even a cursory investigation and they turn out to not be what you yourself must have thought they were, then what weight should we put on them when you do use them? How can we trust them as examples of what you say is going in all over the country?

What we have right now in this post is nothing more than 'Well, forget that one and check this one out'.

* I can't, it's behind a paywall.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,873
15,142
PNW
✟971,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I’m laughing, not at the song but at the people who are defending this
I think that's because they've been lead to believe that admitting there's a serious problem involving children taking place at an exponential rate, amounts to agreeing with and or supporting the far right-wing QAnon MAGAs. That despite the fact that even numerous articles and reports, which are in support of it, clearly spell out that children are suddenly being inundated with transexualizing and LGBTQIA2+ sexualization. That the main curriculum these days seems to be about sex, sex organs, sexual identity, and sexual preference. And all in very elaborate, ambiguous and convoluted terms. And also that society should wait until the ill effects of this become manifest, to start becoming concerned about it.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,209
15,842
72
Bondi
✟374,100.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,209
15,842
72
Bondi
✟374,100.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Next up...the ADF? Seriously? And you did say we needed unbiased reportage? And you used these guys? You'd think that the IWF was pretty far right, but these guys are off the charts. Here's what they say if you are a legal practitioner and want to joing forces with them:

ADF says it provides “legal help with a gospel mission.” But it has a rather crimped view of faith. If you want to be affiliated with this group, you have to agree that life begins at conception, that “God designed marriage” for one man and one woman for life with no sexual intimacy outside that union, and that “God creates each person with an immutable biological sex—male or female.” The Christian Right’s Destructive Courthouse Moment Has Arrived | Free Inquiry

Well, just a touch of bias there. Again, ignored.
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,044
7,501
61
Montgomery
✟253,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'll do that at some point*. But how many of the links you posted will turn out like the one I picked at random? If you are not going to give these cases even a cursory investigation and they turn out to not be what you yourself must have thought they were, then what weight should we put on them when you do use them? How can we trust them as examples of what you say is going in all over the country?

What we have right now in this post is nothing more than 'Well, forget that one and check this one out'.

* I can't, it's behind a paywall.
What’s clear is that children are being allowed and sometimes encouraged to transition without their parents knowledge. Some of the schools are claiming it’s a protection issue and they are concerned about how the children will be treated if their parents find out. That sounds to me like parents are being presumed guilty without due process. The New York Times article highlighted a 14 year old special needs autistic student who decided she wanted to identify as a boy and was seeking to have a mastectomy without her parents knowledge. It brought up the school’s case for not informing the parents versus the rights of the parents.
I believe the parents should be the ones guiding their children with these issues until they are 18.
When I was a teenager I knew a 15 year old girl who went 60 miles from her home and she had an abortion without her parents’ knowledge or consent and it was all legal. They told her to follow up with her OB/ GYN and that he could not tell her parents that she had had an abortion. If she was at school the nurse couldn’t give her an aspirin without calling her parents yet she could have an abortion. I didn’t realize at the time how wrong it was and until much later how I would have felt if that had been my daughter. Parents have a right to know and what is going on in our schools is wrong. To pretend that it’s not happening or that it’s just right wing fear mongering is dishonest at best or worse intentionally deceptive.
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,044
7,501
61
Montgomery
✟253,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Can't do the NYT so I looked at this next one. And the story, as written, seems valid enough, but this link is to the the Independent Women's Forum which is an extremely conservative organisation and about as far from unbiased source as you're likely to find. So on your own recommendation that I avoid biased sites, this is ignored.
Try the AP article or just Google children transitioning without parents knowledge and you’ll have more articles than you can handle
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,209
15,842
72
Bondi
✟374,100.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Let's keep going, shall we?

This link is to the Texas A.G. who is complaining about a school in particular that has a Gender Support Plan. There's a lot of bluster about 'an alarming national trend of left-wing school districts' and other such terminology.

Parents at the school actually went to court to try and block this. And this is what the judge said: Judge Turns Down Request To Block Linn-Mar’s Gender Policy - Iowa Starting Line

“Here, none of the parents assert their child has been given a Gender Support Plan without their consultation or that any child has been disciplined for any misuse—intentional and repeated or otherwise—of another child’s adopted name or pronouns,” the ruling states.

Instead, most of the claims are hypotheticals Williams said don’t rise to the level of proving irreparable harm or the chance of it.

“In short, the parents only assert that they fear their rights will be harmed if some uncertain future events occur,” he wrote. “They have not shown any of these harms to be certain or imminent.”

“None of them allege their children have been given a plan, none of them allege they have been left out of any plan-creation, and none of them allege they have been denied access to information about their minor children,” he wrote.


And who makes the decision to inform parents of any problems pupil has with gender? Back to that link and it's actually the pupils themselves:

...students with Gender Support Plans are given authority over who the district tells about the plan, for those students who worry about how their families will react.

And seeing that the parents who brought the case are members of a right wing organisation called Parents Defending Education, who are vehemently opposed to anything regarding gender, I'm not surprised in the slightest that their children may not want them informed of problems they are having.

So...anything here where there might be some dastardly plan to transgender children across the nation? Obviously not. It's not even a burger, let alone a nothing burger.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
27,873
15,142
PNW
✟971,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Try the AP article or just Google children transitioning without parents knowledge and you’ll have more articles than you can handle
No way, that might lead to a political stance being weakened.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,209
15,842
72
Bondi
✟374,100.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
...just Google children transitioning without parents knowledge and you’ll have more articles than you can handle
No, I'm using the ones you recommended. The ones that you say indicate the problem. The one's that you have personally chosen to illustrate the problem. And what are you batting so far? Is it none from five?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.