What are your thoughts on this?

[Bradskii]

How does that contradict my position? I said children were transitioning without their parents knowledge, if the decision to inform the parents rests with the student then that is what’s happening. And the schools go along with it and parents are kept in the dark. How does that in any way contradict what I said?
You are 0 for 10 because that’s what is going on in every case. Just because a judge says it’s fine there are still plenty of parents who don’t think it’s fine.

You and others have been implying that there is some secret movement to transition children and to intentionally keep anything they do from the parents. And from at least two of your links I gave shown you comments by a judge and statements by a school from court documents that show that is very far from the truth indeed.

“None of them allege their children have been given a plan, none of them allege they have been left out of any plan-creation, and none of them allege they have been denied access to information about their minor children,” he wrote.

Defendants specifically deny that the Great Salt Bay Community School and the Great Salt Bay School Board had a policy of requiring concealment of information from Plaintiff.

Defendants agree that neither the Transgender Policy nor the Conduct Policy encourage withholding of information of any kind from parents and further Defendants state that these policies are intended to foster partnership not exclusion.

IF there has been some information not passed on to any parent, then I have shown in another example that it wasn't part of some policy to intentionally do that. That, as above, the policies are designed to include and not exclude parents. But, as with any personal matter that any pupil discusses with any teacher, if the pupil expressly states that he or she wants it to go no further, then the school must respect their wishes. They are obliged to do that. For very obvious reasons I would have thought.

It's plainly obvious that parents are frustrated that their own children are intentionally keeping them out of the loop as regards personal problems. And that their sons or daughters feel more at ease talking about those problems with a teacher. I gave reasons for why that could be expected in a recent post. And would I, as a parent, feel that frustration? Yes, I would. And I'd want to know why my relationship with my own child was such that she would turn to someone else when she felt she needed help.

What I wouldn't do is lawyer up and blame the school for that breakdown in trust.

 

[Bradskii]

...and schools allowing minors to transition and hiding it from the parents.

What schools have been doing is acceding to the request by some pupils to use different pronouns. And they are not 'hiding' it from the parents. They are being told by the pupil that he or she refuses to give permission to the school to discuss it with their parents.

 

[BPPLEE]

You and others have been implying that there is some secret movement to transition children and to intentionally keep anything they do from the parents. And from at least two of your links I gave shown you comments by a judge and statements by a school from court documents that show that is very far from the truth indeed.

“None of them allege their children have been given a plan, none of them allege they have been left out of any plan-creation, and none of them allege they have been denied access to information about their minor children,” he wrote.

Defendants specifically deny that the Great Salt Bay Community School and the Great Salt Bay School Board had a policy of requiring concealment of information from Plaintiff.

Defendants agree that neither the Transgender Policy nor the Conduct Policy encourage withholding of information of any kind from parents and further Defendants state that these policies are intended to foster partnership not exclusion.

IF there has been some information not passed on to any parent, then I have shown in another example that it wasn't part of some policy to intentionally do that. That, as above, the policies are designed to include and not exclude parents. But, as with any personal matter that any pupil discusses with any teacher, if the pupil expressly states that he or she wants it to go no further, then the school must respect their wishes. They are obliged to do that. For very obvious reasons I would have thought.

It's plainly obvious that parents are frustrated that their own children are intentionally keeping them out of the loop as regards personal problems. And that their sons or daughters feel more at ease talking about those problems with a teacher. I gave reasons for why that could be expected in a recent post. And would I, as a parent, feel that frustration? Yes, I would. And I'd want to know why my relationship with my own child was such that she would turn to someone else when she felt she needed help.

What I wouldn't do is lawyer up and blame the school for that breakdown in trust.

17,000 schools in 37 states forbid school staff from telling parents if their children are transitioning

 

[BPPLEE]

What schools have been doing is acceding to the request by some pupils to use different pronouns. And they are not 'hiding' it from the parents. They are being told by the pupil that he or she refuses to give permission to the school to discuss it with their parents.

In Kettle Moraine, the parents allege that the district said it would continue to allow their daughter to use a male name and pronouns even when they protested, ultimately leading them to pull her out of school. In Ludlow, the parents say that after getting their child a counselor to help her deal with same-sex attraction, school officials disregarded an email asking them not to continue to talk with her about anything related to her health and permitted her to use different names and pronouns.

And in the California lawsuit, the parents allege that teachers held a secretive LGBTQ club, eventually pushing or encouraging their child to identify as transgender.

Are Teachers Obliged to Tell Parents Their Child Might Be Trans? Courts May Soon Decide

Some administrators say outing a student could lead to child abuse or self-harm. Parents in court filings say they have a right to know.

www.edweek.org

 

[BPPLEE]

17,000 schools in 37 states forbid school staff from telling parents if their children are transitioning

From the horse’s mouth

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/ED-DCL-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

[Bradskii]

17,000 schools in 37 states forbid school staff from telling parents if their children are transitioning

And exactly as I said, they cannot until they get permission from the pupil to do so. As it says: 'the student's right to privacy about their personal information is protected by federal law'. That has always been the case in regards to all personal matters. They would ask, as a matter of course, but if they are told to keep it private then they would be breaking the law by not doing so.

This has been the case from at least from '74 when the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act was signed into law, and almost certainly prior to that by similar legislation.

 

[BPPLEE]

And exactly as I said, they cannot until they get permission from the pupil to do so. As it says: 'the student's right to privacy about their personal information is protected by federal law'. That has always been the case in regards to all personal matter. They would ask, as a matter of course, but if they are told to keep it private then they would be breaking the law by not doing so.

What other health information are school staff required to hide from parents? If this has always been the case please give an example

 

[Bradskii]

What other health information are school staff required to hide from parents? If this has always been the case please give an example

I think the question might be more honestly put as; 'What other circumstances might a school be able to override the wishes of the pupil regarding disclosure of personal information (commonly referred to as PII)?

There is a Health and Safety exemption. From here: https://generalcounsel.ncsu.edu/fil...ntofaHealthorSafetyEmergencyN0010557C1D49.pdf

Disclosures must be made “in connection with an emergency,” which means it must be related to an actual or imminent emergency such as when a student is injured or is a threat to others.

There must be an “articulable and significant threat” defined by law enforcement, medical professionals, or the university’s Behavioral Assessment Team.

 

[BPPLEE]

I think the question might be more honestly put as; 'What other circumstances might a school be able to override the wishes of the pupil regarding disclosure of personal information (commonly referred to as PII)?

From here: https://generalcounsel.ncsu.edu/fil...ntofaHealthorSafetyEmergencyN0010557C1D49.pdf

Disclosures must be made “in connection with an emergency,” which means it must be related to an actual or imminent emergency such as when a student is injured or is a threat to others.

There must be an “articulable and significant threat” defined by law enforcement, medical professionals, or the university’s Behavioral Assessment Team.

NC State is a college as far as I know. No minor children there, Try again

 

[BPPLEE]

And exactly as I said, they cannot until they get permission from the pupil to do so. As it says: 'the student's right to privacy about their personal information is protected by federal law'. That has always been the case in regards to all personal matters. They would ask, as a matter of course, but if they are told to keep it private then they would be breaking the law by not doing so.

This has been the case from at least from '74 when the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act was signed into law, and almost certainly prior to that by similar legislation.

Can a school provide a 13 year old information about getting breast implants?

 

[Bradskii]

NC State is a college as far as I know. No minor children there, Try again

They are quoting FERPA. It was the first hit I got. If you like the horse's mouth approach, then here it is: When is it permissible to utilize FERPA’s health or safety emergency exception for disclosures? | Protecting Student Privacy

In some situations, school administrators may determine that it is necessary to disclose personally identifiable information (PII) from a student’s education records to appropriate parties in order to address a health or safety emergency. FERPA’s health or safety emergency provision permits such disclosures when the disclosure is necessary to protect the health or safety of the student or other individuals. See 34 CFR §§ 99.31(a)(10) and 99.36. This exception to FERPA’s general consent requirement is limited to the period of the emergency and generally does not allow for a blanket release of PII from a student’s education records. Rather, these disclosures must be related to an actual, impending, or imminent emergency, such as a natural disaster, a terrorist attack, a campus shooting, or the outbreak of an epidemic disease.

 

[BPPLEE]

They are quoting FERPA. It was the first hit I got. If you like the horse's mouth approach, then here it is: When is it permissible to utilize FERPA’s health or safety emergency exception for disclosures? | Protecting Student Privacy

In some situations, school administrators may determine that it is necessary to disclose personally identifiable information (PII) from a student’s education records to appropriate parties in order to address a health or safety emergency. FERPA’s health or safety emergency provision permits such disclosures when the disclosure is necessary to protect the health or safety of the student or other individuals. See 34 CFR §§ 99.31(a)(10) and 99.36. This exception to FERPA’s general consent requirement is limited to the period of the emergency and generally does not allow for a blanket release of PII from a student’s education records. Rather, these disclosures must be related to an actual, impending, or imminent emergency, such as a natural disaster, a terrorist attack, a campus shooting, or the outbreak of an epidemic disease.

That tells you when you can release information. The government is overstepping its bounds concealing that a student is transgender from a parent when that child is a minor.

 

[Bradskii]

Can a school provide a 13 year old information about getting breast implants?

Is this the new MO? Ask a list of questions until you get an answer you like so at least you get a run on the board? In this case, I have no idea. I doubt it would be a good idea. And I doubt whether search terms like FERMA and 'breast implants for 13 year olds' will get me many hits.

The points you have made have been comprehensively refuted. By comments from judges, court cases and from the federally mandated FERMA. And even by the pdf that you yourself actually linked to. It actually says in that that student info is private unless permission is given. And you've been given chapter and verse on federal laws that make sure that happens, with exceptions as noted. So it is plainly obvious that there is no 'secret agenda' by educational officials to convert the countries students to transitioning.

What the problem actually is is parents getting bent out of shape because their own children don't want them to know about their personal problems. As I said, I'd be upset as well. But I wouldn't be looking for someone else to blame for that.

 

[Bradskii]

That tells you when you can release information.

Well...yeah. That's what you asked for.

The government is overstepping its bounds concealing that a student is transgender from a parent when that child is a minor.

The 'government' (and it was Nixon in power when FERMA was enacted) isn't saying that it should be concealed. Please stop twisting the facts. FERMA says that a student's personal information can be disclosed if the student gives permission.

And you have seen examples of where school policy is to actually encourage the information to be shared. To actually involve the parents.

 

[BPPLEE]

Is this the new MO? Ask a list of questions until you get an answer you like so at least you get a run on the board? In this case, I have no idea. I doubt it would be a good idea. And I doubt whether search terms like FERMA and 'breast implants for 13 year olds' will get me many hits.

The points you have made have been comprehensively refuted. By comments from judges, court cases and from the federally mandated FERMA. And even by the pdf that you yourself actually linked to. It actually says in that that student info is private unless permission is given. And you've been given chapter and verse on federal laws that make sure that happens, with exceptions as noted. So it is plainly obvious that there is no 'secret agenda' by educational officials to convert the countries students to transitioning.

What the problem actually is is parents getting bent out of shape because their own children don't want them to know about their personal problems. As I said, I'd be upset as well. But I wouldn't be looking for someone else to blame for that.

I never said there was a secret agenda. I’m opposed to exactly what you are describing and I have not been refuted. Minor children are transitioning and schools are required to hide it from their parents. It makes no difference to me if they did this voluntarily or are forced to. I only argued that it was happening and you have helped confirm that it is in fact happening, that at least one judge has mandated and now you argue that it is required by federal law. So it’s definitely happening so how have I been refuted? The only thing refuted is something you’ve falsely accused me of

 

[BPPLEE]

Well...yeah. That's what you asked for.

The 'government' (and it was Nixon in power when FERMA was enacted) isn't saying that it should be concealed.
And you have seen examples of where school policy is to actually encourage the information to be shared. To actually involve the parents.

The school cannot do that without the students permission, they are required to conceal the information from parents

 

[BPPLEE]

Well...yeah. That's what you asked for.

No. Those are examples of when information CAN be released. I asked what other medical conditions schools are required to hide from parents.

Transgenderism is a medical condition isn’t it? It’s treated with medication, counseling and surgery. Since when have schools been restricted from reporting medical conditions to parents? @Bradskii

 

[BPPLEE]

I think the question might be more honestly put as; 'What other circumstances might a school be able to override the wishes of the pupil regarding disclosure of personal information (commonly referred to as PII)?

There is a Health and Safety exemption. From here: https://generalcounsel.ncsu.edu/fil...ntofaHealthorSafetyEmergencyN0010557C1D49.pdf

Disclosures must be made “in connection with an emergency,” which means it must be related to an actual or imminent emergency such as when a student is injured or is a threat to others.

There must be an “articulable and significant threat” defined by law enforcement, medical professionals, or the university’s Behavioral Assessment Team.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.

 

[BPPLEE]

What schools have been doing is acceding to the request by some pupils to use different pronouns. And they are not 'hiding' it from the parents. They are being told by the pupil that he or she refuses to give permission to the school to discuss it with their parents.

And the school then has to hide it from the parents. What other medical conditions can minor students choose not to inform their parents about and the schools have to abide by that?

 

[Bradskii]

I never said there was a secret agenda. I’m opposed to exactly what you are describing...

Which, as I have already said, has been the process for close on half a century. And almost certainly longer. You're a bit late to the party to start complaining about the rights to privacy that students have.

I guess you were fine with it before. I have never seen a comment on it in the last umpteen years I've been on these type of forums. I guess it was fine then. But now there's something with which you disagree and that right disappears out of the nearest window. Maybe they have a right to privacy except when you say they shouldn't.