What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, we find this through His Word

Jesus is the Word, John 1:1, 14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus is the Word, John 1:1, 14

Yes, His Word became flesh (why we are to follow Him and His example, not anyone else) and through His scriptures are to lead our path Psa 119:105 going outside we are told is danger Isa 8:20

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, His Word became flesh (why we are to follow Him and His example, not anyone else) and through His scriptures are to lead our path Psa 119:105 going outside we are told is danger Isa 8:20

Not "his Word" rather "the Word".

Psalms 119:105 NASB n Nun. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

Had the psalm intended to speak of the scriptures then it would say so, but when it says "your word" it means what God has said.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not "his Word" rather "the Word".

Psalms 119:105 NASB n Nun. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

Had the psalm intended to speak of the scriptures then it would say so, but when it says "your word" it means what God has said.

Agree. John 17:17 is referring to His word- the scriptures, the path that is to be our guide Psa 119:105 following the same example of Jesus John 15:10 1 John 2:6

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Agree. John 17:17 is referring to His word- the scriptures, the path that is to be our guide Psa 119:105 following the same example of Jesus John 15:10 1 John 2:6

You know what? I do not think that a bible sanctifies people.

thy word is truth - All that thou hast spoken - that is, all that is contained in the Bible [and in every revelation of God]. All the commands and promises of God; His representations of His own character and that of man; His account of the mission and death of His Son; of the grave, the resurrection, judgment, and eternity, all tend to represent things as they are, and are thus fitted to sanctify the soul. We have here also the testimony of the Saviour that the revelation which God has given is true. All that God has spoken is true, and the Christian should rejoice and the sinner should tremble. See Psa_19:7-14. [Albert Barnes]

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

You missed this part of my post:

God (Jehovah, the Blessed Trinity) does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage,

No, I did not miss that part of your post. In the above, you say that God does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage. God does not "come down"; the Comforter is down here, unlike the Father and the Son. And He does help us with every single thing He has caused to be written.

Of course, there is the time factor.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You know what? I do not think that a bible sanctifies people.

thy word is truth - All that thou hast spoken - that is, all that is contained in the Bible [and in every revelation of God]. All the commands and promises of God; His representations of His own character and that of man; His account of the mission and death of His Son; of the grave, the resurrection, judgment, and eternity, all tend to represent things as they are, and are thus fitted to sanctify the soul. We have here also the testimony of the Saviour that the revelation which God has given is true. All that God has spoken is true, and the Christian should rejoice and the sinner should tremble. See Psa_19:7-14. [Albert Barnes]

We are sanctified by the Truth of God's Word

John 17:17 Sanctify[a] them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

Why the Truth is so important in scripture and why so many people miss the mark- they do not want to come to the Truth of God's word, but would rather stay in darkness because of their deeds John 3:19-21

Jesus is the Truth- why we need to follow His example 1 John 2:6
All of His commandments are Truth- His version Psa 119:151 we keep not His commandments there is no truth 1 John 2:4
His word is the Truth and we are sanctified by His Truth John 17:17 and by His Sabbath Eze 20:12 which is on the seventh day Exo 20:10 but it is God that is doing the sanctifying, we can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17

Yet sadly people argue over these basic Truths. That we don't have to follow Jesus, we don't have to keep His commandments, His commandments were edited etc. These are all things that takes us away from God's Truth. Instead of forming our life around His word, that path is to be a lamp to our feet Psa 119:105 people want to live how they want to live and that's where the compromise of Truth comes in.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, I did not miss that part of your post. In the above, you say that God does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage. God does not "come down"; the Comforter is down here, unlike the Father and the Son. And He does help us with every single thing He has caused to be written.

Of course, there is the time factor.

You missed it again; it is the part that says:

God (Jehovah, the Blessed Trinity) does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage, even relying on the Holy Spirit has its difficulties because everyone claims that the Spirit has led them into the truth, but their truth is not the same as their opponent's truth and that opponent also says that the Spirit led him into the truth.​

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

We are sanctified by the Truth of God's Word

No, not so. Christians are sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit and specifically by Jesus Christ.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There are some passages in saint Paul's letters that leave me wondering which way to go with respect to the ten commandments, and without the guidance of the Church I am not so confident that I could avoid the individualism that seems to dominate Protestantism today. Here is one such passage:

Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.​

Take a look at the context for the passage that I quoted:

Galatians 5:1-15 NASB It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. (2) Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. (3) And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. (4) You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (5) For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. (6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. (7) You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? (8) This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. (9) A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. (10) I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. (11) But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. (12) I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. (13) For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. (14) For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." (15) But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.​

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

You missed it again; it is the part that says:

God (Jehovah, the Blessed Trinity) does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage, even relying on the Holy Spirit has its difficulties because everyone claims that the Spirit has led them into the truth, but their truth is not the same as their opponent's truth and that opponent also says that the Spirit led him into the truth.​

No, I did not miss that part. You say that God "does not come down", when He is down, and then we have your underlined text above, which you give to try in vain to justify this:

Isn't it the truth that every doctrine is formulated by people (man) and every scripture is read by people (man) and interpreted by people (man) and that being so we are left with nothing but the doctrines of man.

So, no. Every doctrine is not formulated by sinful man, and every scripture is read only by sinful man, and interpreted only by sinful man, and we are not left with nothing but the doctrines of man. That is the theory of one who does not consider that the Comforter from God will and does come in and help everyone who seeks, to find.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, not so. Christians are sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit and specifically by Jesus Christ.

I believe John 17:17 no one is sanctified by untruths. God is the one sanctifying.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, I did not miss that part. You say that God "does not come down", when He is down, and then we have your underlined text above, which you give to try in vain to justify this:

So, no. Every doctrine is not formulated by sinful man, and every scripture is read only by sinful man, and interpreted only by sinful man, and we are not left with nothing but the doctrines of man. That is the theory of one who does not consider that the Comforter from God will and does come in and help everyone who seeks, to find.

Since you are absolutely determined to avoid the discussion of the Holy Spirit's role I'll just stop responding to the matter with you.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I believe John 17:17 no one is sanctified by untruths. God is the one sanctifying.

Since Jesus is both the Word and the Truth I do not see why you're debating against Jesus being the sanctifier of Christians.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Since Jesus is both the Word and the Truth I do not see why you're debating against Jesus being the sanctifier of Christians.

Jesus is the Truth John 14:6 All His commandments are His Truth Psa 119:151 His commandments are a reflection of His holy character. We are sanctified by His Truth, which is through His word John 17:17 why when we keep not His commandments there is no Truth in us 1 John 2:4 i.e. no sanctification Rev 22:15 but Jesus is the one sanctifying us Eze 20:12.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[timothyu]

Yes, His Word became flesh (why we are to follow Him and His example, not anyone else) and through His scriptures are to lead our path

Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Which gospel? }}}}

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

why when we keep not His commandments

Do you keep God's commandments?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

You missed it again; it is the part that says:

God (Jehovah, the Blessed Trinity) does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage, even relying on the Holy Spirit has its difficulties because everyone claims that the Spirit has led them into the truth, but their truth is not the same as their opponent's truth and that opponent also says that the Spirit led him into the truth.​

God left us a way to know the truth it is in Deuteronomy, it is a test, here is but a a sample;
Deut 13:4"You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him."

The passage in Deuteronomy 13 makes it clear that the true test is whether their teachings align with God’s law and lead people to follow God alone. Any prophet or teacher who tries to lead others away from the Law or worship of the one true God is considered a false prophet, regardless of their miraculous signs. The penalty for such deception is severe—death—because they are actively trying to lead people away from God's law. This demonstrated the importance of obedience to God's commands and remaining faithful.

 

[KevinT]

I did in an earlier post, and I am sure you have seen it but are not convinced by it; ultimately it has to come down to choosing who has the right to authoritatively interpret holy scripture. If the authority to interpret lies with you as an individual, then the question is settled by your own reasoning but if you accept that the Church has the authority to interpret then what does the Church teach on this matter and for me the answer is that the Catholic Church teaches now and has always taught that we are to observe rest on Sunday and worship God on Sunday, the first day of the week, and that the seventh day Sabbath is a matter for Jews and those who follow their reasoning. Since I am not a Jew and do not accept Judaism as arbiter of truth, I do not follow the ruling of the Rabbis on this matter.

I appreciate your honesty. Just realize that you are the one who is choosing which camp you have joined. If you had been born in a Jewish community, you would likely be loyal to that camp. So then you will be stuck in your current situation -- for better or for worse.

Again, I feel in this thread that you have been honest about your position and tried to be logical. I thank you for that.

KT

 

[KevinT]

Isn't it the truth that every doctrine is formulated by people (man) and every scripture is read by people (man) and interpreted by people (man) and that being so we are left with nothing but the doctrines of man.

There are some fundamentals. I.e. God directly authored the 10 commandments, and presumably gave direction through His prophets over time. These were then interpreted by mankind, possibly incorrectly. But I don't think it is fair to say that all teaching is nothing but a "doctrine of man".

We can say that we rely on the holy scriptures as our norm by which truth is to be arbitrated but every scripture has to be read, and its meaning decided and that is always a human activity.

Agreed. When the 10 commandments instruct us to "not covet", that is subject to interpretation. But it is not outside our God-given ability to do so. Actually, laws are often written somewhat vague so that they can be flexed to cover real-life situations. As we meditate on God's instructions we should be able to figure things out. Think about the physics of electricity and magnetism. It was a mystery for a long time, but with careful attention to details, Michael Faraday was able to work out this God-ordained system. Likewise, we shouldn't give up on other of God's principles and say, "It is unknowable."

God (Jehovah, the Blessed Trinity) does not come down and help us with explanations of every passage...

I talked to someone yesterday who, years ago had turned her back on God. She did her own little experiment like Gideon with water in cups etc. When God didn't work a miracle she decided God didn't exist. She told me she now understands that this was silly and that God doesn't answer to our naive demands. Yet God still cared for her all during this "journey in the wilderness" as she put it. So likewise, just because God doesn't show up in church with PowerPoint slides of explanation, doesn't mean He isn't helping in other ways.

, even relying on the Holy Spirit has its difficulties because everyone claims that the Spirit has led them into the truth, but their truth is not the same as their opponent's truth and that opponent also says that the Spirit led him into the truth. That is why this thread exists,...

I think that people like to think that God is "on their side", and whatever they do must be because the Father prompted them. I agree with you that it can be difficult to figure out what is best. I prefer decisions based on sound reasoning over someone's dubious claim to diving guidance.

I really like the summary you made here

• Seventh Day Adventists and some others insist that keeping Saturday as Sabbath is essential if you intend to obey the ten commandments,
• some Protestants say that we need not bother with the ten commandments,
• still others say that the Sabbath commandment alone is abrogated of the ten commandments
• and still others will say that the matter of the Sabbath commandment is true but the specific day is ceremonial rather than moral and hence it is not necessary to keep Saturday in order to keep the Sabbath.

From this and your other posts, I hear you saying that it is confusing because everyone is confidently asserting conflicting points of view. Maybe this is why Paul wrote this:

Romans 14 -- Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

We all come from different backgrounds and are at a different point in our journey with Christ. I think we should encourage each other to consider points our brothers might have overlooked. But at the end of the day, we are all dependent on Christ to lead us (one way or another) into understanding.

I wish you well,

Kevin