What are the "Sabbaths," "New Moons," and "Feasts"?

Kilk1 · Dec 24, 2021

Torah Keeper said:
Shabbath=Shabbat. The 7th day of the week.
Mow'ed=A Holy Day(not always a feast day).
Chodesh=A new moon.
Chag=A feast or festival.

Thanks for the reply! It seems to be the case that you're correct, that these are essentially the meanings of the terms. I found out that in the Septuagint (LXX), three words that appear in each of these passages are "Festivals" (1859, εορταις) "New Moons" (3561, νουμηνιαις), and "Sabbaths" (4521, σαββατοις).

Relatedly, the only place in the New Testament where these terms appear is Colossians 2:16-17, which reads, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [1859, εορταις] or a new moon [3561, νουμηνιαις] or sabbaths [4521, σαββατοις], which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (NKJV, emphasis mine). Would the meaning of the terms here be the same as in the other five passages they're found?

Kilk1 · Dec 24, 2021

Whoops, accidentally posted this twice!

Torah Keeper said:
Shabbath=Shabbat. The 7th day of the week.
Mow'ed=A Holy Day(not always a feast day).
Chodesh=A new moon.
Chag=A feast or festival.

Thanks for the reply! It seems to be the case that you're correct, that these are essentially the meanings of the terms. I found out that in the Septuagint (LXX), three words that appear in each of these passages are "Festivals" (1859, εορταις) "New Moons" (3561, νουμηνιαις), and "Sabbaths" (4521, σαββατοις).

Relatedly, the only place in the New Testament where these terms appear is Colossians 2:16-17, which reads, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [1859, εορταις] or a new moon [3561, νουμηνιαις] or sabbaths [4521, σαββατοις], which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (NKJV, emphasis mine). Would the meaning of the terms here be the same as in the other five passages they're found?

Torah Keeper · Dec 24, 2021

Yes I think they are the same in Colossians 2.

However I believe Colossians was written to newly converted gentiles, not born and bred Jews. So Paul is telling them not to let anyone judge them because they started to observe these days. Verse 16 also implies a change in diet.

Paul continued keeping the Sabbath and Moedim throughout the Book of Acts, even emphasizing the importance of doing so. And he gave advice for properly keeping Passover.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You mean the word EAT? You are the one reading what you want into the text...it is clear as day...it is about fasting days and how some are fasting or not fasting...

Jews fasted twice a week, on Mondays and Thursdays (Luke 18:12). Gentile converts continued the tradition but observed it on Wednesdays and Fridays. The Didache chapter 8 says “But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week. Rather, fast on the fourth day (Wednesday) and the Preparation (Friday).” Fasting is not allowed on the Sabbath.

Happy Sabbath my friend,
And yet fasting is not mentioned. Eating herbs or not eating herbs is. And regarding a day or not regarding it is. All of which is respect to opinions, man made doctrines not the word of God. Verse 1 Now the affirm in faith be taking to yourselves but not for discrimination of reasonings. Disputes over differing opinions, thoughts not the word of God.

trophy33 · Dec 25, 2021

Kilk1 said:
Hello! Several Old Testament passages reference "Sabbaths" (Strongs 07676, shabbath), "New Moons" (Strongs 02320, chodesh), and "Set Feasts" (Strongs 04150, mow‘ed), along with the occasional mention of "feasts" (Strongs 02282, chag) as well (all verses NKJV, emphasis mine):

Behold, I am building a temple for the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to Him, to burn before Him sweet incense, for the continual showbread, for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths [shabbath, 07676], on the New Moons [chodesh, 02320], and on the set feasts [mow‘ed, 04150] of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance forever to Israel. (2 Chronicles 2:4)

The king also appointed a portion of his possessions for the burnt offerings: for the morning and evening burnt offerings, the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths [shabbath, 07676] and the New Moons [chodesh, 02320] and the set feasts [mow‘ed, 04150], as it is written in the Law of the LORD. (2 Chronicles 31:3)

for the showbread, for the regular grain offering, for the regular burnt offering of the Sabbaths [shabbath, 07676], the New Moons [chodesh, 02320], and the set feasts [mow‘ed, 04150]; for the holy things, for the sin offerings to make atonement for Israel, and all the work of the house of our God. (Nehemiah 10:33)

Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts [chag, 02282], the New Moons [chodesh, 02320], the Sabbaths [shabbath, 07676], and at all the appointed seasons [mow‘ed, 04150] of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel. (Ezekiel 45:17)

I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days [chag, 02282], Her New Moons [chodesh, 02320], Her Sabbaths [shabbath, 07676]—All her appointed feasts [mow‘ed, 04150]. (Hosea 2:11)

What do each of the three (or four) terms mean in these passages?

Feasts - every ear
New Moons - every month
Sabbaths - every week

Three main categories.

Generally said, Christians cannot be judged by any of this.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

myst33 said:
Feasts - every ear
New Moons - every month
Sabbaths - every week

Three main categories.

Generally said, Christians cannot be judged by any of this.

Sabbaths of the book of the law, the handwriting of the ordinances not the Sabbath of the Decalogue

trophy33 · Dec 25, 2021

HIM said:
Sabbaths of the book of the law, the handwriting of the ordinances not the Sabbath of the Decalogue

All is finished.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

myst33 said:
All is finished.

You are not addressing the text in Colossians in which you took out of context.

trophy33 · Dec 25, 2021

HIM said:
You are not addressing the text in Colossians in which you took out of context.

I beg to differ.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

myst33 said:
I beg to differ.

You can beg to differ all you want. You initially quoted Col. 2:16 out of context and then proceeded to state something that is not even implied or stated in the text. Take care….

trophy33 · Dec 25, 2021

HIM said:
You can beg to differ all you want. You initially quoted Col. 2:16 out of context and then proceeded to state something that is not even implied or stated in the text. Take care….

I did not quote anything. I was just stating a standard Christian position. Take care.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

myst33 said:
I did not quote anything. Take care.

Yes you did. Unless now you are going to say you did not have Col 2:16 in mind in your discourse which was about Col 2:16.

sad….

myst33 said:
Feasts - every ear
New Moons - every month
Sabbaths - every week

Three main categories.

Generally said, Christians cannot be judged by any of this.

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

Sad indeed…. Commentaries and preachers leading astray. As was so it will always be.

Kilk1 · Dec 25, 2021

Torah Keeper said:
Yes I think they are the same in Colossians 2.

However I believe Colossians was written to newly converted gentiles, not born and bred Jews. So Paul is telling them not to let anyone judge them because they started to observe these days. Verse 16 also implies a change in diet.

Paul continued keeping the Sabbath and Moedim throughout the Book of Acts, even emphasizing the importance of doing so. And he gave advice for properly keeping Passover.

I see. I generally hear people to understand "judge" in Colossians 2:16-17 to speak against judging them for not observing the days rather than judging them for observing them. Might Galatians 4:10-11 be a parallel passage suggesting the problem is binding the days?

In other words, if Colossians 2:16-17 means that Gentile Christians should observe these days, and they shouldn't be judged for observing them, then wouldn't Paul contradict himself in Galatians 4:10-11, where he judges Gentile converts' observing of days, months, seasons, and years? Might it be that such things shouldn't be bound, and Gentiles' believing they're bound is what caused Paul to fear he may have labored in vain?

Kilk1 · Dec 25, 2021

Torah Keeper said:
Yes I think they are the same in Colossians 2.

However I believe Colossians was written to newly converted gentiles, not born and bred Jews. So Paul is telling them not to let anyone judge them because they started to observe these days. Verse 16 also implies a change in diet.

Paul continued keeping the Sabbath and Moedim throughout the Book of Acts, even emphasizing the importance of doing so. And he gave advice for properly keeping Passover.

I see. I generally here people to understand "judge" in Colossians 2:16-17 to speak against judging them for not observing the days, not for observing them. Might Galatians 4:10 be a parallel passage suggesting the problem is binding the days?

In other words, if Colossians 2:16-17 means that Gentile Christians should observe these days, and they shouldn't be judged for observing them, then wouldn't Paul contradict himself in Galatians 4:10-11, where he judges Gentile converts for

myst33 said:
Feasts - every ear
New Moons - every month
Sabbaths - every week

Three main categories.

Generally said, Christians cannot be judged by any of this.

From what I can tell, this seems to be correct, that the reference is to yearly, monthly, and weekly days.

Kilk1 · Dec 25, 2021

HIM said:
Sabbaths of the book of the law, the handwriting of the ordinances not the Sabbath of the Decalogue

Is the Sabbath of Leviticus 23:3 different from the Sabbath of the Decalogue?

HIM · Dec 25, 2021

Kilk1 said:
Is the Sabbath of Leviticus 23:3 different from the Sabbath of the Decalogue?

Colossians not Leviticus. The handwriting to the ordinances not the Decalogue.

Kilk1 · Dec 25, 2021

HIM said:
Colossians not Leviticus. The handwriting to the ordinances not the Decalogue.

What holy days are in the book of the law, and where in the book of the law can they be found?

Torah Keeper · Dec 25, 2021

Kilk1 said:
I see. I generally hear people to understand "judge" in Colossians 2:16-17 to speak against judging them for not observing the days rather than judging them for observing them. Might Galatians 4:10-11 be a parallel passage suggesting the problem is binding the days?

In other words, if Colossians 2:16-17 means that Gentile Christians should observe these days, and they shouldn't be judged for observing them, then wouldn't Paul contradict himself in Galatians 4:10-11, where he judges Gentile converts' observing of days, months, seasons, and years? Might it be that such things shouldn't be bound, and Gentiles' believing they're bound is what caused Paul to fear he may have labored in vain?

Paul seems to contradict himself a lot. This is probably due to biased translations. Paul also admits some of his teachings are his own opinion and he received no instruction from the Lord regarding it. I don't see Paul as the final authority on anything, especially after his disputes with the other apostles. I see his letters more as historical, with some inspiration from the Holy Spirit at times. Much like other early Christian writings of the time. Such as Polycrates, Polycarp, Clement, Origen, Irenaeus, etc . Some truth mixed with Paul's admitted own opinion(which sometimes clashed with the other apostles). I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a false apostle, but even prophets sometimes made mistakes. If Paul contradicts the status quo of Holy Writ, then Holy Writ stands.

Torah Keeper · Dec 25, 2021

Kilk1 said:
What holy days are in the book of the law, and where in the book of the law can they be found?

Leviticus 23 is the main list of Holy Days. References exist in other places such as Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Acts 2.

What are the "Sabbaths," "New Moons," and "Feasts"?

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