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throughfiierytrial

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Paul seems to contradict himself a lot. This is probably due to biased translations. Paul also admits some of his teachings are his own opinion and he received no instruction from the Lord regarding it. I don't see Paul as the final authority on anything, especially after his disputes with the other apostles. I see his letters more as historical, with some inspiration from the Holy Spirit at times. Much like other early Christian writings of the time. Such as Polycrates, Polycarp, Clement, Origen, Irenaeus, etc . Some truth mixed with Paul's admitted own opinion(which sometimes clashed with the other apostles). I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a false apostle, but even prophets sometimes made mistakes. If Paul contradicts the status quo of Holy Writ, then Holy Writ stands.
Apostle Paul was instructed by Christ Himself after His vision. All His writings are accepted as Scripture...
II Peter 3:15-17:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I see. So the law is still in effect, just not the debt, in your view. However, doesn't Paul say that since the handwriting of ordinances is taken out of the way, now you don't need anyone to judge you in festivals, new moons, and sabbaths? After saying it's taken out of the way, he then says, "So let no one judge you ..." (Colossians 2:16, NKJV, emphasis mine).

Isn't the handwriting of ordinances tied to the festivals, new moons, and sabbaths, then? How does not having debt relate to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths?
II Corinthians 5:21...
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. And Jesus bore our transgressions and was punished for us (Isaiah 53). He abolished the LAW which was against us...
Colossians 2:13-15:
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
So, we now receive salvation through faith in Jesus which credits us with righteousness.

Important to remember salvation is extended us through faith and faith in Jesus credits us with righteousness.

Romans 4:4-5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

We are made right with God, at peace with God, now that the Law is abolished.

What does Scripture say about the Law now that our indebtedness was paid for?
We are to live according to the Spirit and follow the way of Love in thankfulness and praise to God for this great sacrifice and love of God toward mankind. This living according to the Spirit upholds the Law.
Romans 3:31:
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
Romans 6:1-3:
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

To live a sanctified life study the way of Love and the Bibles teachings on Love for God as well as Love toward our brother...not the Law...love will uphold the Law in God's eyes as Romans clearly states.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Galations 4:9-11 sheds even more light on the matter saying...
9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

He was speaking about PAGAN observances...they were former PAGANS. They did not know God because they were former PAGANS...but now they do and he is telling them not to return or mix in their former PAGAN observances!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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He abolished the LAW which was against us...
Love for God as well as Love toward our brother...not the Law...love will uphold the Law in God's eyes as Romans clearly states.

No, the curse of the law was abolished. Um, that IS the law (love God and love brother...Leviticus and Deuteronomy)!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

"lawless" is without law...
 
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Kilk1

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Of course it is. Is it still a sin to murder? To steal? Sin is the transgression of the law. The wages of sin is death. Death is the curse of the law. The curse was hung on the cross...taken out of the way...He became a curse for us...
But is it still a sin to eat certain meats or to not be circumcised? Certain parts of the law have been done away with, right? The old law had a different priesthood, so with it being changed, "there is also a change of the law" (Hebrews 7:12, NKJV).

Again, Paul ties the handwriting of ordinances to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths. How does not having debt relate to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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But is it still a sin to eat certain meats or to not be circumcised? Certain parts of the law have been done away with, right? The old law had a different priesthood, so with it being changed, "there is also a change of the law" (Hebrews 7:12, NKJV).

Again, Paul ties the handwriting of ordinances to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths. How does not having debt relate to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths?

Already answered you. Yes, certain laws can not be kept...for example, there is no Temple, etc...
 
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Kilk1

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Already answered you. Yes, certain laws can not be kept...for example, there is no Temple, etc...
Thanks! However, one question I've asked seems to have gone unanswered: How does not having debt relate to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths? (Again, Paul ties the handwriting of ordinances to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths in Colossians 2:13-17.)
 
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throughfiierytrial

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He was speaking about PAGAN observances...they were former PAGANS. They did not know God because they were former PAGANS...but now they do and he is telling them not to return or mix in their former PAGAN observances!
I don't believe Galatians is necessarily originally directed to Pagans only. Paul does write quite extensively to them quoting OT so one feels there is a familiarity with the Law. (Remember also that now the entire Bible is written for us and we apply it to our own lives.) I know that Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, but he also spoke to the Jews at times as according to Acts. This Galatians Epistle does not spell out which group of believers Paul is addressing...one might make some assumptions, but the message is for us today as well.
Men who came to be called “Judaizers,” infiltrated the hearts and minds of the Galatian believers...it seems. This could be from Acts...men from Jerusalem insisted that a person must also keep the ceremonial laws of Moses in order to be saved. They told these new converts to Christ: “Unless you are circumcised according to the law handed down by Moses, you cannot be saved” (Acts 15:1).
It is the message that counts.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I don't believe Galatians is necessarily originally directed to Pagans only. Paul does write quite extensively to them quoting OT so one feels there is a familiarity with the Law. (Remember also that now the entire Bible is written for us and we apply it to our own lives.) I know that Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, but he also spoke to the Jews at times as according to Acts. This Galatians Epistle does not spell out which group of believers Paul is addressing...one might make some assumptions, but the message is for us today as well.
Men who came to be called “Judaizers,” infiltrated the hearts and minds of the Galatian believers...it seems. This could be from Acts...men from Jerusalem insisted that a person must also keep the ceremonial laws of Moses in order to be saved. They told these new converts to Christ: “Unless you are circumcised according to the law handed down by Moses, you cannot be saved” (Acts 15:1).
It is the message that counts.

In THIS case, in THIS context, it is about their former PAGANISM...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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lawless is also without earthly natural law...not lawless as without the OT Law.

Could be but what is it within THIS context? In what context is their "secure position"?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You cannot and do not convince me...because you say so is no Biblical proof at all.

Anything else makes no sense, especially if they were former Jews...it makes complete sense if they were formerly pagans...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Thanks! However, one question I've asked seems to have gone unanswered: How does not having debt relate to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths? (Again, Paul ties the handwriting of ordinances to not being judged about festivals, new moons, and sabbaths in Colossians 2:13-17.)

Does 1 + 1 = 3? Not sure what connection you want there to be...
 
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Kilk1

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Does 1 + 1 = 3? Not sure what connection you want there to be...
If the handwriting of ordinances included commands, such as "Keep these various festivals, new moons, and sabbaths," it'd make sense that taking such handwriting out of the way would logically lead to people not needing to be judged in those matters.

If, however, the handwriting doesn't include commands, then I don't see how taking such out of the way leads to people no longer needing to be judged in those matters.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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If the handwriting of ordinances included commands, such as "Keep these various festivals, new moons, and sabbaths," it'd make sense that taking such handwriting out of the way would logically lead to people not needing to be judged in those matters.

If, however, the handwriting doesn't include commands, then I don't see how taking such out of the way leads to people no longer needing to be judged in those matters.

It is neither one of your scenarios. Handwriting of ordinances (that were AGAINST US) were taken away and nailed to the cross...the curse/debt was taken away...He became a curse for us...
 
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Kilk1

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It is neither one of your scenarios. Handwriting of ordinances (that were AGAINST US) were taken away and nailed to the cross...the curse/debt was taken away...He became a curse for us...
What about Galatians 3:24-25, which says we're no longer under the law? And what about Romans 7:4, which says we've become dead to the law? Since the comparision of Romans 7:4 is between a husband and wife (Romans 7:1-3), how a wife is under the law of her husband (not just his condemnation but under his authority, right?) until he dies, wouldn't this suggest that once we're dead to the law, we're no longer under its authority, and thus we don't have to follow it anymore?

Note: This is not antinomianism: I'm asking if we're dead to the law of Moses but now married to Christ (and thus, still need to obey Him).
 
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