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What are marriage deal breakers?

dayknee

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Thank you everyone for posting your honest opinions.

I sometimes think that all of the above that I posted about are in ways, someone leaving hte marriage.
Especially when the other person will not change or show's really no willingness to.
In my husband, currently, there is real bitterness and anger towards me for making him leave due to catching him, once again, viewing porn on our sons computer.
That and his role playing talk to other women on the computer game World of Warcraft.
He still hasn't stopped playing the game, but he is out of the house and I cannot moniter him. He says he isnt doing anything wrong anymore but I guess I just feel that someone who really wants to change would have stopped playing the game for the betterment of their marriage. I also do not know about hte porn either, but I tend to think that is still there also.
He is repeatedly emotionaly abusive in very subtle ways and it's taken me along time to see those sublte signs.
He tries to manipulate the situation in any way he can to "come back home" without true change or repentence.
I guess I posted my questiong becuase divorce is somehting I want.
I know that it isn't something God really would want me to do, but I can't see how I can endure this type of marriage either.
Anyways..thank you guys for responding.
 
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PaladinWithGun2

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Thank you everyone for posting your honest opinions.

I sometimes think that all of the above that I posted about are in ways, someone leaving hte marriage.
Especially when the other person will not change or show's really no willingness to.
In my husband, currently, there is real bitterness and anger towards me for making him leave due to catching him, once again, viewing porn on our sons computer.
That and his role playing talk to other women on the computer game World of Warcraft.
He still hasn't stopped playing the game, but he is out of the house and I cannot moniter him. He says he isnt doing anything wrong anymore but I guess I just feel that someone who really wants to change would have stopped playing the game for the betterment of their marriage. I also do not know about hte porn either, but I tend to think that is still there also.
He is repeatedly emotionaly abusive in very subtle ways and it's taken me along time to see those sublte signs.
He tries to manipulate the situation in any way he can to "come back home" without true change or repentence.
I guess I posted my questiong becuase divorce is somehting I want.
I know that it isn't something God really would want me to do, but I can't see how I can endure this type of marriage either.
Anyways..thank you guys for responding.
I want to encourage you: I really damaged my marriage by just spending a lot of time on the computer playing online games and chatting. I lied to myself and my wife that the people (see 'women') I was spending my time with meant nothing, but it was just as much an infidelity as a physical relationship, because I put others ahead of her. I pray that you are comforted by friends and our Lord in this tough time, and I just want you to know your fears are not exaggerated.
 
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HuntingMan

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Infidelity aside, what would any of you consider breaking marriage vows?

I'm asking what any one of you would consider broken marriage vows. Examples; emotional abuse, porn, verbal abuse, physical abuse, drugs, stealing, lying.

And would you consider these as possible reasons for divorce?
Triple A's;

Abuse (real, not imagined or exaggerated. God knows the difference ;) )

Adultery (self explanatory, literal not just mental adultery)

Abandonment (speaks for itself)
 
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arizonasunset

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Thank you everyone for posting your honest opinions.

I sometimes think that all of the above that I posted about are in ways, someone leaving hte marriage.
Especially when the other person will not change or show's really no willingness to.
In my husband, currently, there is real bitterness and anger towards me for making him leave due to catching him, once again, viewing porn on our sons computer.
That and his role playing talk to other women on the computer game World of Warcraft.
He still hasn't stopped playing the game, but he is out of the house and I cannot moniter him. He says he isnt doing anything wrong anymore but I guess I just feel that someone who really wants to change would have stopped playing the game for the betterment of their marriage. I also do not know about hte porn either, but I tend to think that is still there also.
He is repeatedly emotionaly abusive in very subtle ways and it's taken me along time to see those sublte signs.
He tries to manipulate the situation in any way he can to "come back home" without true change or repentence.
I guess I posted my questiong becuase divorce is somehting I want.
I know that it isn't something God really would want me to do, but I can't see how I can endure this type of marriage either.
Anyways..thank you guys for responding.

dayknee.....i strongly suggest you seek counceling....i would also suggest christian counseling.

you are compassionate and loving and obviously attempted to set boundaries.

however you can't neglect you. so again i strongly encourage you to seek counsel....i also encourage you to seek people who will support you, encourage you, share with your sorrows and accomplishments......instead of people shaming and blaming you.

please brothers and sister stand in agreement with me that God will bring healing to dayknee and draw her closer to Him.

I ask you Lord Jesus to bring into dayknee's life people who are solid on the mighty Rock You are....those You have gifted with compassion, exhortation, wisdom, and insight.

You, O Lord, You alone can break through gates of iron and bronze and i invoke You Holy God of Israel to reach down upon dayknee's situation and bring Your glory and purpose forward.

Holy Spirit move upon dayknee today....give her Your peace and quiet her spirit. move within her blessed Spirit of the living God and flow into her the mighty waters of the living God. bring forth the bounty of Your fruit in the midst of this trial she is facing.

open the eyes of everyone involved, Lord, mighty King, and bring Your everlasting fruit to bear in the midst of the barren desert. anoint anoint, my Lord, my God, almighty Savior, with oil...oil of healing balm...oil of strength....oil of restoration.

glory be to You...You, O God, who knows all about every detail of dayknees situation and those involved. bring forth everything that stands opposed to you Most High....let no shadow hide from Your glorious light.

leave not one thing unturned, Yahweh, for nothing can withstand Your mighty strength, power, and zeal. protect Your beloved child, dayknee and all she holds dear to her. bring her to Your presence and keep her close day and night.

glory be to You our Lord and Savior and with many thanksgivings and knowing that You have already finished this trial for dayknee, i praise You. i petition this to You, Father, in the name of my Lord and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

:hug: :hug: :hug: dayknee:hug: :hug: :hug:
 
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jessesgirl

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Infidelity I might be able to work through. Abuse...consistent abuse with no hopes of change...big time deal breaker (already been a deal breaker once). Emotional abuse IMO is just as bad as physical...it is all the same. Now, after having been through it, I probably wouldn't even allow for counseling, automatic deal breaker. Drug/alcohol abuse? Maybe...depends on the willingness to work through it.

:hug: Prayin for you dayknee! :hug: :prayer:
 
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heart of peace

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None - I don't believe in divorce for *any* reason, not even infidelity.

I might separate if mine or my childrens' lives were in danger, but would not divorce.

I agree. I would never initiate a divorce. I do agree with seperation though as a way to gain perspective on a situation.

Thank you everyone for posting your honest opinions.

I sometimes think that all of the above that I posted about are in ways, someone leaving hte marriage.
Especially when the other person will not change or show's really no willingness to.
In my husband, currently, there is real bitterness and anger towards me for making him leave due to catching him, once again, viewing porn on our sons computer.
That and his role playing talk to other women on the computer game World of Warcraft.
He still hasn't stopped playing the game, but he is out of the house and I cannot moniter him. He says he isnt doing anything wrong anymore but I guess I just feel that someone who really wants to change would have stopped playing the game for the betterment of their marriage. I also do not know about hte porn either, but I tend to think that is still there also.
He is repeatedly emotionaly abusive in very subtle ways and it's taken me along time to see those sublte signs.
He tries to manipulate the situation in any way he can to "come back home" without true change or repentence.
I guess I posted my questiong becuase divorce is somehting I want.
I know that it isn't something God really would want me to do, but I can't see how I can endure this type of marriage either.
Anyways..thank you guys for responding.


I am sorry that you are going through this currently. Do you have a support system in place? In my opinion, when there are children involved who are looking to the adults for leadership, it is important that they are protected from any type of abuse. It sounds like you are taking the steps to ensure that your child is not exposed to the sin your husband is allowing to enter your home.
 
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HuntingMan

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None - I don't believe in divorce for *any* reason, not even infidelity.
Ive actually heard someone say this before a few years ago.
When their own life turned into absolute hell they changed their mind tho.
I guess if a person has had it easy in a marriage its not too hard to say theyd never divorce.

I remember after I married my first wife my uncle was going thru a rough divorce. Even tho my wife was already cheating I was wondering what his wife was doing that was so bad that he felt he needed to divorce her over it. I surely wouldnt give up on my wife like that.
And then it all faded to black.
No matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS be turned up a notch.
 
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HuntingMan

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i personally was hurt badly through the beliefs of believers over this subject.

Thats the problem with these erroneous teachings. They literally make it the fault of the believer if they cant somehow make their abusive, adulterous spouse behave.

And this 'faith' thing where supposedly our faith is going to cause God somehow to FORCE our wayward spouse to do whats right is very destructive to that persons faith entirely.

Ive seen very godly souls end up questioning their faith and God because some false ones in the church literally dupe them into believing THEY are the ones failing if hubby doesnt want to get his act together.

this did not work out in my case....my ex-husband refused all these things....he liked our churches view on how i should handle the marriage. however it does have a very high success rate. i have seen this process work and actually bring marriages to a brighter vibrancy than it was in the beginning.
In some cases it does work and reconciliation does happen.
Every case is unique.
Some of our spouses just stumble for a spell. Some of them seem to be satan incarnate.


the church i attended spoke these words to me:
"YOU pray for him."
"YOU pray unceasingly for the Lord to soften, change....his heart."
"YOU let God do the work and don't interferre."
"YOU..divorce is the greatest sin you will committ therefore be faithful no matter what he does to you or your children."
"YOU be the model and example to him...be as Christ was an example to us."
"YOU remain faithful to him."
"YOU submit to his decisions.. he is the head of the house...YOU must accept and obey."
"YOU...just keep praying."
"YOU accept the consequences of his actions and praise the Lord for it."
"if YOU continue to take your children to church, bring them up on the foundation of Scripture....then the sins of the father will not fall upon them. .....ect."

this messed with my head and honestly sometimes still does.

Yep.
Thats what they do best.
Cause YOU to doubt YOUR faith when YOU cant force God to force your husband to 'be good'.

 
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dayknee

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dayknee.....i strongly suggest you seek counceling....i would also suggest christian counseling.

you are compassionate and loving and obviously attempted to set boundaries.

however you can't neglect you. so again i strongly encourage you to seek counsel....i also encourage you to seek people who will support you, encourage you, share with your sorrows and accomplishments......instead of people shaming and blaming you.

please brothers and sister stand in agreement with me that God will bring healing to dayknee and draw her closer to Him.

I ask you Lord Jesus to bring into dayknee's life people who are solid on the mighty Rock You are....those You have gifted with compassion, exhortation, wisdom, and insight.

You, O Lord, You alone can break through gates of iron and bronze and i invoke You Holy God of Israel to reach down upon dayknee's situation and bring Your glory and purpose forward.

Holy Spirit move upon dayknee today....give her Your peace and quiet her spirit. move within her blessed Spirit of the living God and flow into her the mighty waters of the living God. bring forth the bounty of Your fruit in the midst of this trial she is facing.

open the eyes of everyone involved, Lord, mighty King, and bring Your everlasting fruit to bear in the midst of the barren desert. anoint anoint, my Lord, my God, almighty Savior, with oil...oil of healing balm...oil of strength....oil of restoration.

glory be to You...You, O God, who knows all about every detail of dayknees situation and those involved. bring forth everything that stands opposed to you Most High....let no shadow hide from Your glorious light.

leave not one thing unturned, Yahweh, for nothing can withstand Your mighty strength, power, and zeal. protect Your beloved child, dayknee and all she holds dear to her. bring her to Your presence and keep her close day and night.

glory be to You our Lord and Savior and with many thanksgivings and knowing that You have already finished this trial for dayknee, i praise You. i petition this to You, Father, in the name of my Lord and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen


Thank you for uplifting me today. It really means so much to me.
I have been in counseling for over a year now. He had not gone for the first 8months of our seperation. He goes now, but he also made it clear that he will go on his own schedual and time and that he was not going to have someone tell him that he needed to be there every single week. He feels that counselors are only there to take your money. My counselor is a great christian women who is much older and has so much Godly councel for me. She has helped me so much overcome the "its me" feeling about his porn use. She has taught me to stand up to my husband and his emotional abuse and to do it in a way that is glorifying the Lord.
For instance..yesterday I had to go to the bank..he forgot to leave me money again this week for gas. He said that I could go ot the bank and take it out.
So yesterday I did that. When he called later in the afternoon he asked if I did indeed go to the bank. I said yes. He asked where I took the money from and I told him his savings. He became irrate and said "how is it fair that you can take money out of my account and I cant get into yours" I said what are you talking about..you told me I could take money out of the bank..he said "yeah I did, but why did you take it out of that account" I said you did not specify which account to take it out of so I went to the nearest bank so that I could get money to get gas in the truck..
He is angry becuase in the begining of our seperation I split the savings account and opened my own due to some illegal things he has been doing that I dont want to be apart of. So now, I get berated for taking money out when he told me I could. and this is what Im talking about..he wants to control the bank I go to where I get money and he certainly doesnt want me to have my own accounts..he see's it as something married people do not do. He keeps yelling and I tell him that there is nothing I can do to help him get over his anger right now and that I was going to hang up. Then he started in about how he is out of the house and how I kicked him out and how "i should just get over it now, I got the point..I will change..I am changed"..
I have been reading a book about repentence and sorrow. Mostly becuase I don't really know what true repentance looks like..and I am told that true repentence is someone who realizes the hurts theyve caused to another person and that they will do ANYTHING to get that marriage back on track without the promise of reconcilling.
The only reason he goes to counseling is to show that he's going. he hasnt gotton anything out of it.

I dont know you guys. Im struggling in a big way and it really comes down, for me, to just either ignor it and continue working on myself or file for divorce..this has been going on for two years now...Longer for the abuse and porn.
Im tired and weary..I feel so far away from God.
Hmphf..my dad says that it isnt good when a situation brings you farther away from God and there is obviously a problem with that.
I am a work in progress I guess.
My kids are doing better..my son misses his dad but still knows things are not good. My daughter who is 16 has a not so good relationship with him and feels like she needs to be my defeder.
I am doing the best I can to keep them happy and safe even without their dad..and Im doing my best to not let them see or hear those things that happen between us.
 
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jessesgirl

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Ive actually heard someone say this before a few years ago.
When their own life turned into absolute hell they changed their mind tho.
I guess if a person has had it easy in a marriage its not too hard to say theyd never divorce.

I remember after I married my first wife my uncle was going thru a rough divorce. Even tho my wife was already cheating I was wondering what his wife was doing that was so bad that he felt he needed to divorce her over it. I surely wouldnt give up on my wife like that.
And then it all faded to black.
No matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS be turned up a notch.
:thumbsup:
 
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MERCY@GRACE

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I don't know. I used to ramble off the standard answers, but for me I truely value the sanctity of marriage, and it would have to be something MAJOR for me to leave. Not stuff like...'oh he doesn't value me, he calls me lazy etc. I think as long as said problem wasn't repetitive and he was actively seeking help or TRYING to change I'd stay.
 
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MaraPetra

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Thank you for uplifting me today. It really means so much to me.
I have been in counseling for over a year now. He had not gone for the first 8months of our seperation. He goes now, but he also made it clear that he will go on his own schedual and time and that he was not going to have someone tell him that he needed to be there every single week. He feels that counselors are only there to take your money. My counselor is a great christian women who is much older and has so much Godly councel for me. She has helped me so much overcome the "its me" feeling about his porn use. She has taught me to stand up to my husband and his emotional abuse and to do it in a way that is glorifying the Lord.
For instance..yesterday I had to go to the bank..he forgot to leave me money again this week for gas. He said that I could go ot the bank and take it out.
So yesterday I did that. When he called later in the afternoon he asked if I did indeed go to the bank. I said yes. He asked where I took the money from and I told him his savings. He became irrate and said "how is it fair that you can take money out of my account and I cant get into yours" I said what are you talking about..you told me I could take money out of the bank..he said "yeah I did, but why did you take it out of that account" I said you did not specify which account to take it out of so I went to the nearest bank so that I could get money to get gas in the truck..
He is angry becuase in the begining of our seperation I split the savings account and opened my own due to some illegal things he has been doing that I dont want to be apart of. So now, I get berated for taking money out when he told me I could. and this is what Im talking about..he wants to control the bank I go to where I get money and he certainly doesnt want me to have my own accounts..he see's it as something married people do not do. He keeps yelling and I tell him that there is nothing I can do to help him get over his anger right now and that I was going to hang up. Then he started in about how he is out of the house and how I kicked him out and how "i should just get over it now, I got the point..I will change..I am changed"..
I have been reading a book about repentence and sorrow. Mostly becuase I don't really know what true repentance looks like..and I am told that true repentence is someone who realizes the hurts theyve caused to another person and that they will do ANYTHING to get that marriage back on track without the promise of reconcilling.
The only reason he goes to counseling is to show that he's going. he hasnt gotton anything out of it.

I dont know you guys. Im struggling in a big way and it really comes down, for me, to just either ignor it and continue working on myself or file for divorce..this has been going on for two years now...Longer for the abuse and porn.
Im tired and weary..I feel so far away from God.
Hmphf..my dad says that it isnt good when a situation brings you farther away from God and there is obviously a problem with that.
I am a work in progress I guess.
My kids are doing better..my son misses his dad but still knows things are not good. My daughter who is 16 has a not so good relationship with him and feels like she needs to be my defeder.
I am doing the best I can to keep them happy and safe even without their dad..and Im doing my best to not let them see or hear those things that happen between us.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.


8Love never fails. ..
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Porn is adultery. Matt. 5:28 is very, very clear on that point (Jesus didn't mince words on this subject):

28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I'm very sorry that you're experiencing such a horrid time in your life, but can you imagine your son being exposed to the pop-ups that porn viewing brings? Or your daughter thinking that she has to live up to the standards of a porn star? Porn affects so much more than the person viewing it, it skews healthier relationship expectations, too. :(

I listed I Cor. 14 above, because it's such a beautiful expression of what love is. In this case, it also shows what true repentance borne of love is.

Repentance can be faked, but fake repentance is a mask. Like all masks, after a while, it becomes bothersome and irritating, and its confines become too much. The wearer takes it off, giving viewers a glimpse past the illusion into the chaos inside.

His mask slipped, judging from what you wrote.

Keep doing what you're doing, keep up your own counselling, and keep fighting the good fight until you're very sure that your husband isn't sincere in change.
 
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CuriousInIL

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Infidelity aside, what would any of you consider breaking marriage vows?

I'm asking what any one of you would consider broken marriage vows. Examples; emotional abuse, porn, verbal abuse, physical abuse, drugs, stealing, lying.

And would you consider these as possible reasons for divorce?
I will just say that I think "deal breaker" in the title and reason for divorce in the question are 2 very different things.

Thanks for your responses you guys.
I want to re-state that aside from infidelity being grounds for divorce, which I am aware of, I am basically wondering if anyone would divorce, christian or not, biblical or not, over any of the other reasons I listed.

None - I don't believe in divorce for *any* reason, not even infidelity.

I might separate if mine or my childrens' lives were in danger, but would not divorce.
This also sums up my belief.

Divorce is such a casual act these days. In churches, however, we have been so strong in our defense of the family that I have seen divorced Christians stigmatized right out of the church, and that is sad. There are limits to the pain a person should bear as a spouse, and adultery and abuse cannot in any way be consistent with respecting, cherishing, and honoring one another above ourselves. The death of a marriage is hard enough without losing the support among the body of believers over the label of divorce. I think we should encourage all marriages in times of trouble, and try to embrace those who could not continue in the situations they were in.
Perhaps I have just been lucky or inattentive, but in the parishes of the Catholic Church that I have attended there has always been welcoming and support.

In a technical sense, a vow is 'broken' when a person either does what they say they won't, or doesn't do what they say they will.

So...

Typical wedding vows involve:
- honour
- love
- cherishing
- sexual fidelity

If a person repeatedly fails in any of those areas toward their spouse and doesn't express genuine remorse, they've broken their marriage vows.

Now, Jesus chided the Pharisees for letting technical 'law' get in the way of the greatest law, that of love... so I don't think it's all quite as black and white as I've made it sound.
I think it is that black and white if the question is what breaks a vow. Look at the vows made.

Ive actually heard someone say this before a few years ago.
When their own life turned into absolute hell they changed their mind tho.
I guess if a person has had it easy in a marriage its not too hard to say theyd never divorce.

I remember after I married my first wife my uncle was going thru a rough divorce. Even tho my wife was already cheating I was wondering what his wife was doing that was so bad that he felt he needed to divorce her over it. I surely wouldnt give up on my wife like that.
And then it all faded to black.
No matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS be turned up a notch.
And it seems to me that such bad situations can be resolved by separation without need for divorce. I have seen no one speak against separation.
 
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heart of peace

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dayknee, just wanted to offer prayers for you. Fight the good fight is good advice given. This must be a very painful time in your life. Have you taken any time to allow any joyful experiences in as well? Perhaps having a relaxing time at the spa, or going to an amusement park with your children?


Ive actually heard someone say this before a few years ago.
When their own life turned into absolute hell they changed their mind tho.
I guess if a person has had it easy in a marriage its not too hard to say theyd never divorce.

I remember after I married my first wife my uncle was going thru a rough divorce. Even tho my wife was already cheating I was wondering what his wife was doing that was so bad that he felt he needed to divorce her over it. I surely wouldnt give up on my wife like that.
And then it all faded to black.
No matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS be turned up a notch.

HuntingMan, you make this response without the knowledge if the poster has experienced infidelity or any other possible divorce causing experiences and still stands by this position. That is not exactly fair on your end to assume she feels this way because her marriage is just peachy keen.
 
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arizonasunset

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thinking of you this morning dayknee.......

may the Lord continue His mighty work and His finished plan for you.
 
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dayknee

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thinking of you this morning dayknee.......

may the Lord continue His mighty work and His finished plan for you.
Thank you for that quick note..I really appreciate it.

Im struggling and have been alot lately..specially in the last week.
Ive had to take some really firm stands against him and his behavior but Im really working on things.
Thank you for thinking of me.
 
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