What are God's reasons for sending someone to hell?

[Colter]

Problem: repentence doesn't undo the damage of a crime. How would it be just to withhold punishment on a belief basis rather than an action basis? Additionally, Christ did not face judgement on our behalf. If he had, then he would still be suffering in hell to this day so that NO ONE HAS TO GO THERE. Which btw, I can't think of anything less just than to have an innocent person suffer for the crimes of others. It would be like drowning an adulterer's baby to absolve them of the adultery; it is more horrific than the crime it is supposedly absolving.

You have good points.

*The Pagan interpretation of the cross as a human sacrifice for sins doesn't make any sense in light of the original gospel Jesus tried to bring to the Jews.

* The theory of original sin is also unjust. Death came to Adam and Eve specifically, it was already natural for man to pass through death.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Fortunately we have been given time because, like everyone else, I too would be judged less than worthy. Repentance in this sense is the recognition that we all 'sin and fall short' of what is expected.

The materialist law of the land is but a pale shadow of divine justice and because we live in a broken world such justice will likewise remain broken, despite our best attempts.



The divine justice for sin is death .... permanent. The fact that Christ died to circumvent that eventuality is why, as Christians, we give God our praise and worship .... we could not have achieved it through our own efforts.

And who made it so that we cannot achieve this through our own efforts? Who made it a requirement that an atrocity occur to achieve salvation?

 

[Davian]

God, in his mercy, is suspending judgment until the appointed time. He allows wicked sinners like you and I to keep living on his land until he will judge all people finally. In the meantime there is time to repent and trust Christ who faced judgement on our behalf. By his grace we can escape the judgment that's due - not just to child molesters but to all of us.

Does child molestation preclude one from receiving a 'good' judgement? If not, what would?

 

[johnford]

And who made it so that we cannot achieve this through our own efforts? Who made it a requirement that an atrocity occur to achieve salvation?

The same reason why I am a Christian .... look around .... the alternatives suck.

People increasingly pretend they are living in utopia and governments love that ... stops them thinking too deeply.

And you failed to acknowledge your own thinking ... there was no 'atrocity'. That fact that you think Jesus' death was 'atrocious' is a decision who have made. So if you think his death was unjustified, unwarranted, you have to acknowledge as much and prove your point.

What happened to Jesus was par for the course for anyone who was not a Roman citizen, and who thumbed their nose at the Emperor and claimed to be a king of some sort.

 

[com7fy8]

That is a right point that it is wrong to want or wish or be glad that someone goes to hell.

 

[stevevw]

Christians claim that God is everywhere. How could hell be apart from God if God is everywhere?

God is everywhere but that doesn't mean you have allowed him into your life. You can shut him out. Jesus said that heaven was within us. So it may not be some other place far away. That maybe the same for hell. So it maybe a state of mind or spirit. Maybe there is something within us that goes on and just becomes a part of everything. So heaven can really begin now for us here on earth within us.

Well we don't see Christians killing themselves all the time. And we see Christians going to such exaggerated lengths to prolong their temporal lives. So either they don't really believe in "Gods Kingdom" or they fear that what lies beyond their death is far worse than their temporal life.

Its not a case of Christians killing themselves. Well at least for no good reason. They should just throw themselves in the way of death all the time. There is no good reason for that. But if in the line of duty and doing Gods will that it puts them in a position where they are faced with death then this is the ultimate test. There are many Christians around the world who are being persecuted in Gods name and have done throughout history. ISIS has been targeting Christians and killing many. But It is probably more about dedicating your life to a cause and doing Gods will instead of always pursuing your own ambitions or fame, power and money.

There are many Christians who sacrifice their lives for others in doing good. They are often not realized as they just go about their business. But there are also many who proclaim to be Christians who are hypocrites and yes they probably want to save their own lives and dont practice the faith they preach. Just like the pharisees and high priests in the bible. They parade around like they are better but they are full of selfish motives and deceit. So it takes a real sacrifice to follow God and there may be many who think they are saved that are not really doing Gods will but their own. Nowadays some like to have the best of both worlds and justify things by having one foot in both worlds.

 

[Gottservant]

Hell is a relief, to the sinners of the world. (selah)

 

[BL2KTN]

Why does it take a blood sacrifice to get out of hell?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hell is a Christian misunderstanding and myth; there is no hell likened to how Christians describe it in the bible. The bible describes hell as the grave. And God does not punish forever, such a thing would be insane to torture a human forever, and God is not insane; the doctrines of some of his believers is what is insane.

Is there a heaven and a "not heaven"?
If yes, what is the "not heaven" if not "hell"?

If no, then what is the point of christianity?

 

[DogmaHunter]

According to a correct understanding of the Bible, ...

I always have the giggle when I hear a biblical argument starting like that, tbh...

"Correct" according to which sect? Or even which bible?
Or even according to which member of which sect?

 

[DogmaHunter]

God, in his mercy, is suspending judgment until the appointed time. He allows wicked sinners like you and I to keep living on his land until he will judge all people finally. In the meantime there is time to repent and trust Christ who faced judgement on our behalf. By his grace we can escape the judgment that's due - not just to child molesters but to all of us.

What can be said about an authority that puts a system in place where gullible child molestors are rewarded and rational decent folk are punished?

 

[DogmaHunter]

The divine justice for sin is death .... permanent. The fact that Christ died to circumvent that eventuality is why, as Christians, we give God our praise and worship .... we could not have achieved it through our own efforts.

You forget a rather crucial detail....

These are supposedly his rules...
And we are supposedly his creation...

In other words... Being all powerfull and all knowing, he created us specifically in such a way that we wouldn't be able to live upto the rules that he himself deviced and imposed on us.

This resulted in a system where every human was doomed to be punished. To top it off, the only way he could apparantly fix this flaw is by "sacrificing" himself to himself, to save us from himself as a loophole for the flawed system that he created.

In the word of the late greate Christoffer Hitchins "created sick and commanded to be well".

It couldn't get more irrational if one tried imo.

 

[Albion]

You forget a rather crucial detail....

These are supposedly his rules...
And we are supposedly his creation...

In other words... Being all powerfull and all knowing, he created us specifically in such a way that we wouldn't be able to live upto the rules that he himself deviced and imposed on us.

This resulted in a system where every human was doomed to be punished. To top it off, the only way he could apparantly fix this flaw is by "sacrificing" himself to himself, to save us from himself as a loophole for the flawed system that he created.

In the word of the late greate Christoffer Hitchins "created sick and commanded to be well".

It couldn't get more irrational if one tried imo.

That seems like a rather long way to miss the obvious. He did NOT create us sick but, rather, perfect. It was entirely man's doing that we became sick or imperfect.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The same reason why I am a Christian .... look around .... the alternatives suck.

People increasingly pretend they are living in utopia and governments love that ... stops them thinking too deeply.

And you failed to acknowledge your own thinking ... there was no 'atrocity'. That fact that you think Jesus' death was 'atrocious' is a decision who have made. So if you think his death was unjustified, unwarranted, you have to acknowledge as much and prove your point.

Okay.

Let's take ISIS. A group guilty of the most barbaric acts of the last 10 years.
Let's say a court in Den Haag finds them all guilty for crimes against humanity and orders all to be jailed for life.

Then, the judge continues, "I will take the sentence upon myself, I will go to jail in their place. All those of ISIS who accept this 'gift' will gain a pardon and they will not have to go to jail".

If this isn't an attrocity to you, then I don't know what to tell you.
This is not justice. This is insanity. It's irresponsible. And it makes absolutely no sense.

It's an attrocity to punish an innocent scapegoat to absolve others from their guilt.

What happened to Jesus was par for the course for anyone who was not a Roman citizen, and who thumbed their nose at the Emperor and claimed to be a king of some sort.

Which has no relevance at all to the point at hand.

 

[bhsmte]

.

 

[Albion]

Okay.

Let's take ISIS. A group guilty of the most barbaric acts of the last 10 years.
Let's say a court in Den Haag finds them all guilty for crimes against humanity and orders all to be jailed for life.

Then, the judge continues, "I will take the sentence upon myself, I will go to jail in their place. All those of ISIS who accept this 'gift' will gain a pardon and they will not have to go to jail".

If this isn't an attrocity to you, then I don't know what to tell you.
This is not justice. This is insanity. It's irresponsible. And it makes absolutely no sense.

It's an attrocity to punish an innocent scapegoat to absolve others from their guilt..

I don't think that analogy works, however. Consider...the ISIS people are not the creation and possession (if you want to put it that way) of the judge. They are not all of humanity, either. And there is nothing in your scenario about them being rehabilitated in any way (as there is with the Christian story).

 

[DogmaHunter]

That seems like a rather long way to miss the obvious. He did NOT create us sick but, rather, perfect. It was entirely man's doing that we became sick or imperfect.

The user I replied to said that there was NOTHING we humans could do to live upto the standard that god imposed to enter paradise.

From the second that I was born, I was doomed according to that logic. And there was nothing I could do to change that, according to that logic.

It's not my fault that this god has set standards that are impossible to uphold by us mere mortals.

Without this circular loophole that I have to "simply accept" without evidence, I am doomed SIMPLY because I am a human.

How is this anything but insane, immoral, unjust, unfair,...?
Why would anyone be doomed to be punished for a crime that was apparantly committed by an ancestor thousands of years ago?

How can anyone even defend such an idea while keeping a straight face?

Shall we go on and jail all the off spring of nazi officers? Rapists? Murderers? Thieves?

No? Then why on earth should we be doomed because of whatever the fictional characters in Genesis did?

Alos, if this "guilt" is inheritable to off spring - then that is god's doing.

IN FACT, isn't there an explicit verse in Genesis where this god explicitely dooms the off spring of Adam?

And with that, we circle back to my original point...

It's god's fault that we are unable to live upto his standard. Because he explicitly imposed this "original" nonsense upon us.

He could have also just killed adam and created a new one.
He could have also just punished adam and not his off spring.

But he didn't. Instead, he doomed every single human for the actions of a single person.

Nice person, this god of yours...

 

[DogmaHunter]

I don't think that analogy works, however. Consider...the ISIS people are not the creation and possession (if you want to put it that way) of the judge.

Okay...

Let's change "ISIS" to 4 brothers who gangraped and killed 100 women.
Let's change the "judge" to the dad of said 4 brothers.

And no, I don't "want to put it that way". I consider the idea of "posessing" a human being to be immoral.

If you wish to say that god "owns" us, then go right ahead. But that would just give me one more reason to consider the entity to be immoral.

They are not all of humanity, either.

So?
How does that make it better or worse?
How does it change the "logic" (or lack thereof) behind it in any way?

And there is nothing in your scenario about them being rehabilitated in any way (as there is with the Christian story).

How is there a scenario about being "rehabilitated" in the christian story?

According to the logic presented by mainstream christianity, a serial killer will go to heaven if he sincerely "repents" and gets run over by a truck 5 seconds later.

 

[Rajni]

So the sole reason God sends people to hell is for vengeance. Why would a loving God do such a thing?

I don't believe that a loving God would do that. Because, you're right, vengeance would be the only reason.

IMO, hell is really beneath Him (pardon the pun! ).

-

 

[Albion]

The user I replied to said that there was NOTHING we humans could do to live upto the standard that god imposed to enter paradise.

That would be correct. We are incapable of meriting heaven on our own efforts.

From the second that I was born, I was doomed according to that logic.

Had there never been a savior, I guess I'd agree.

It's not my fault that this god has set standards that are impossible to uphold by us mere mortals.

Fault? It is possible, isn't it, that you don't live up to his standards? I don't see why this is so unthinkable to you.

Without this circular loophole that I have to "simply accept" without evidence, I am doomed SIMPLY because I am a human.

Doomed unless something changes, yes. What's so rare about that idea?

How is this anything but insane, immoral, unjust, unfair,...?

Well, it makes perfect sense, so I can hardly agree with such an extreme conclusion as you have presented as the only way to look at things. You might as well say that if a seed is not planted it won't grow and bloom, so all is insane, immortal, unjust yada yada yada.

No, that line of analysis simply makes no sense to me.