What are demons? The heavenly realms?

[John Bowen]

I've been having trouble lately understanding what demons are, and for me that is strange, yet I have been having some spiritual growing pains lately so this may be a part of that. But I almost have doubts demons exist sometimes because it seems like the only thing that provides evidence for them is people acting strange and demonic or people in an occult doing what they believe is the will of a demon.

The only outward workings of these so called demonic forces is either bizarre and absurd behavior or purely evil deeds by humans.

It is strange for me to be having these doubts and feelings because I myself have experienced a form of deliverance and sensed a supernatural existence of evil. I know it is clear in the bible that demons are real.

Take genesis for example. It only uses the name "the serpent"

And then all of a sudden in the OT other gods and idols were being worshiped which I also believe are demons.

And then all of a sudden when Jesus shows up evil spirits are being cast out of people for the first time in the bible.

But who has actually seen one? Some people believe Satan is living in hell but the bible says he walks to and fro about the earth. There are definitely angelic sightings in the bible as if an angel was manifested or standing in front of a person as if they were a person in the bible, but never a demon did this with people.

How are we to know how to combat the forces of darkness if we do not even know what we are up against? How do we do battle with them and keep an impenetrable fortress around us against them? Can they hear what we think? How much do they know about us? If Satan has been here since the beginning and all his forces with him or at least many of them, I would assume some have been watching me or have attempted to throughout my life.

But I still wonder if they exist. If it is just my own evil nature in me causing my own evil thoughts and desires? Is it invoked by a demon or does it spring up simply because it's in my heart?

 

[Valetic]

I have trouble agreeing that the Nephilim were spawned out of angels having sex with women because the Bible doesn't really say that it just says the sons of God.

 

[BroRoyVa79]

I have trouble agreeing that the Nephilim were spawned out of angels having sex with women because the Bible doesn't really say that it just says the sons of God.

Who are the Sons of God in Job 1:6, 1:13, 2:1, and 38:7?
Also, this is before humans are called Sons of God through the New Covenant.

Edited to add all the references in Job

 

[sdowney717]

I have trouble agreeing that the Nephilim were spawned out of angels having sex with women because the Bible doesn't really say that it just says the sons of God.

The sons of God are mentioned also in Job, and it is clear that they are angels in Job.
When you look up that phrase it is ben 'elohiym.
Job 1, this is taking place in heaven where the Lord is, The lord God is not on the earth. God speaking to Satan mentions Job is on the earth. God asks Satan where have you come from, and Satan says he was on the earth, so where they are is not earth but a heavenly realm.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

 

[RaymondG]

I’ve seen them. A black shadow figure that paralized me, sat on my chest and tried to sufficate me. A shadow man with long alienesq fingers. Google “sleep paralysis”. I’m not alone in this. In fact Jesus revealed himself to me shortly after that experience.

Can you share what Jesus looked like? You only described the demon.

 

[Valetic]

Who are the Sons of God in Job 2:1?
Also, this is before humans are called Sons of God through the New Covenant.

Who knows. And do you know why Jesus called himself Son of Man more than He did Son of God? Because Jews used to refer to themselves as a son of God, and the Son of Man was the one who was to come prophecied in scripture.

 

[sdowney717]

I have trouble agreeing that the Nephilim were spawned out of angels having sex with women because the Bible doesn't really say that it just says the sons of God.

Question is this, what was the sin for which the Lord God locked up the angels that sinned?
That they left heaven? Peter's immediate following verse mentions the flood, so we know something related to Genesis 6 is in focus.

And in Jude, is mentioned this about the fallen angels, that they sinned and the comparison is to Sodom and Gomorrah and sexual perversion, in a similar manner to these pointing back to v6, going after strange flesh, which fits a fallen angel who is not authorized to do such by God, gave themselves over to sexual immorality.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, (fallen angels who sinned) having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[BroRoyVa79]

Who knows. And do you know why Jesus called himself Son of Man more than He did Son of God? Because Jews used to refer to themselves as a son of God, and the Son of Man was the one who was to come prophecied in scripture.

Did you look at Job? Also, I edited the post to add all the references and sdowney777 cited one of the passages here for you. Whether the Jews called themselves sons of God later, Genesis 6 and Job are way before the Jews existed. So you have to look at the references in scripture (Job) to determine who the Sons of God are in Genesis 6. They aren't humans.

 

[Valetic]

Did you look at Job? Also, I edited the post to add all the references and sdowney777 cited one of the passages here for you. Whether the Jews called themselves sons of God later, Genesis 6 and Job are way before the Jews existed. So you have to look at the references in scripture (Job) to determine who the Sons of God are in Genesis 6. They aren't humans.

The only way I could see this work is if it's pre tower of Babel fall.

Edit I probably sound like I haven't read a bible in a while lol I'm not all here right now

 

[BroRoyVa79]

The only way I could see this work is if it's pre tower of Babel fall.

Edit I probably sound like I haven't read a bible in a while lol I'm not all here right now

Genesis 6 says it was pre tower and post tower.
Be careful not to remove the supernatural from the Bible. We worship a Supernatural Lord after all.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Then what does it mean to you that Jesus cast 7 demons out of Mary Magdalene?

It means that Jesus was a man of his culture, a culture which believed that unexplainable phenomena were caused by supernatural forces. If you try to say that Jesus was omniscient, I will point you to the NT passage that says he emptied himself of some of the powers of the godhead when he incarnated. As evidence of this, he said even the Son did not know the hour of his return, but only the Father knew.

 

[sdowney717]

It means that Jesus was a man of his culture, a culture which believed that unexplainable phenomena were caused by supernatural forces. If you try to say that Jesus was omniscient, I will point you to the NT passage that says he emptied himself of some of the powers of the godhead when he incarnated. As evidence of this, he said even the Son did not know the hour of his return, but only the Father knew.

Yes, and it is possible after being glorified again with the Father in heaven, Christ now knows all that the Father has determined by His own authority.
It is also possible that Christ still does not know the hour. We can only guess. But the Son of the Father always does what pleases the Father and is obedient unto the Father. Christ did say after His resurrection that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him

Matthew 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen.

 

[Valetic]

It means that Jesus was a man of his culture, a culture which believed that unexplainable phenomena were caused by supernatural forces. If you try to say that Jesus was omniscient, I will point you to the NT passage that says he emptied himself of some of the powers of the godhead when he incarnated. As evidence of this, he said even the Son did not know the hour of his return, but only the Father knew.

I'm asking you what they really meant when they testified to evil spirits obeying their commands, throwing the victim on the ground, coming out with shrieks, etc.

What real world explanation or definition or interpretation of these "demons" do you hold in light of these scriptures? If they aren't really demons and are what you said...

Demons are non-existent beings used to explain disease and evil.

 

[sdowney717]

I'm asking you what they really meant when they testified to evil spirits obeying their commands, throwing the victim on the ground, coming out with shrieks, etc.

What real world explanation or definition or interpretation of these "demons" do you hold in light of these scriptures? If they aren't really demons and are what you said...

Jesus gave His people power over unclean evil demonic spirits.

Luke 10:19-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but [a]rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

 

[Valetic]

Jesus gave His people power over unclean evil demonic spirits.

Luke 10:19-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but [a]rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

Well are they demons or are they something else?

 

[Valetic]

I'm really getting down to the nitty gritty of this it's just that I don't want to play pretend with the whole spirituality I did when I was a new ager Buddhist Christian mystic that thought one day I was going to unlock Christ conscience and walk on water.

No I want to know if these things are sentient.

 

[sdowney717]

Well are they demons or are they something else?

Of course they are demonic spirits.
Sentient beings they are, they talk, they also recognized Christ as the Son of God. They are spiritually aware.

 

[Valetic]

Of course they are demonic spirits.
Sentient beings they are, they talk, they also recognized Christ as the Son of God. They are spiritually aware.

That's what I was asking the guy I was quoting.. Steve Peterson

 

[BroRoyVa79]

That's what I was asking the guy I was quoting.. Steve Peterson

After reading your post about when you were into Eastern Mysticism mixed with Christianity, I suggest you spend some time reading the Bible and asking questions you have.

In scripture, there are sentient spirits to include demons, various ranks of angels, and other things when you get to Revelation.

 

[Valetic]

you were into Eastern Mysticism mixed with Christianity

That was a long time ago and I am a professed traditional Christian that defends the whole bible to the best of my abilities, specializing in creationism and the gospel itself. I am way past the point of return in Christianity