What About Progressive Sanctification?

[Jamdoc]

Your verse is talking about a lot more than just purity and it is describing the work that God is doing not anything you are doing yourself. The "work" is to conform us into the image of God`s son, the passage refers to that, it`s not a sanctification verse.

I thought that's what sanctification was, conforming you to the image of Christ and that was always the work of God, not your own work.

 

[zoidar]

For you, I`ll cut to the chase.

My primary concern with the idea of a "progressive sanctification" is that it seems to be a pseudo replacement for an active Holy Spirit among Christians who belong to dry churches.

For others, it becomes a way to inject works into the salvation process.

For conditional salvation believers, it can also serve as a license to sin in a similar fashion to the charges they like to make of OSAS Christians.

So, I`m just seeing lots of ways for this doctrine to go wrong and I`m not sure why I need to add "progressive" to my sanctification since I don`t normally accept terms I don`t see in my King James. Mind you, I`m not a King James fanatic.

PS, As for your remark. Yes, Jesus will clean up your heart and transform it.
You still have to work at it to maintain your purity. I never said you don`t but people like to make assumptions

Thanks! It's a concern I also share.

My rebirth took place in two steps, first acknowledging Christ and giving my life to him. Secondly I repented of an old sin. My heart was washed clean. From there on it seems my heart didn't get any cleaner (I doubt a clean heart can get cleaner), but as time went by it rather got more mudded up. Actually I never felt as sanctified again as the day I was born again, so I doubt the idea of gradual sanctification. It seems more like the way you put it: "we have to work to maintain our purity".

 

[RickReads]

I thought that's what sanctification was, conforming you to the image of Christ and that was always the work of God, not your own work.

In the Bible, sanctification is both purity and preservative, close in meaning to the word holiness.

Man might say it`s something else, i.e. progressive etc.

 

[RickReads]

Thanks! It's a concern I also share.

My rebirth took place in two steps, first acknowledging Christ and giving my life to him. Secondly I repented of an old sin. My heart was washed clean. From there on it seems my heart didn't get any cleaner (I doubt a clean heart can get cleaner), but as time went by it rather got more mudded up. Actually I never felt as sanctified again as the day I was born again, so I doubt the idea of gradual sanctification.

The Bible says to renew in the Holy Spirit and that experience can be as wonderful as the day you got saved. Perhaps you need that.

 

[zoidar]

The Bible says to renew in the Holy Spirit and that experience can be as wonderful as the day you got saved. Perhaps you need that.

Where does the Bible say that? Yes, I need that.

 

[RickReads]

Where does the Bible say that? Yes, I need that.

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;


Renewing of the Holy Ghost is the Biblical progressive

 

[sparow]

Isn't Sanctification by nature progressive?

We'd kind of die if God changed us that much in an instant.

What could sanctification mean to you; sanctification means to be separated or set apart; the seventh day is sanctified or set apart from the other six days. The righteous are sanctified when they are separated from the unrighteous; individually it is instantaneous.

 

[Noxot]

constant sanctification can occur if God is constantly rearranging all the spirits to be near those that are like each other and if God organizes all of them to attempt to help and lift up each other closer to him. So even the entire body of Heaven which is composed of all that make it up is being sanctified. Each lost one that is added to Heaven sanctifies it again because they are all each unique children of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What could sanctification mean to you; sanctification means to be separated or set apart; the seventh day is sanctified or set apart from the other six days. The righteous are sanctified when they are separated from the unrighteous; individually it is instantaneous.

Yet many are called but few are chosen.

Many are given the trials but not everyone overcomes.

Many run the race, but only one gets the prize.

 

[nolidad]

There is the post where he explained it.

These problems might be in part due to people's conception of freedom. The denial of our freedom means that only God exists. If God Wills that we have freedom then the denial of our freedom is sin.

because of the hardness of some people's hearts Jesus did not reference himself but rather he pointed to his father. In another place Jesus said that he is always working and that his father is always working. So you see that Jesus works and that the church is his body.

So it is not either/or because both Mankind and God have freedom and in the Holy Spirit they work together. If it was purely up to God we would all be perfect and his kingdom would be much more manifest in the world than it is

By the way a seal can be marred and disfigured. A pure white clothing can be ripped apart, muddied and otherwise polluted. Branches and leaves can be ripped off the vine.

And the moon can crash into teh earth! but that doesn't mean it will happen.

Jesus is the author and completer of our faith, the Holy Spirit seals us till the day of Redemption, Ours salvation is kept in heaven for us, we are the elct from the foundation of the world!

But that has nothing to do with peoples misunderstanding of Hebrews 10:14.

God completed us forever- now He is making us holy to be what He declared us to be!

 

[BNR32FAN]

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

For me it took a long time to become a new creation and break my old habits. It slowly progressed over time. Stopping myself from cursing was definitely a long process but I overcame it. Stopping myself from watching pornography took some effort and time and I overcame it. I remember one of my worst failures was I was on my way to bible study one evening and I was running a little late so I was driving in a hurry. About 70mph in a 65mph zone. Wasn’t driving crazy fast or dangerous. I went to pass a car doing about 60mph and as I began to pass the driver tried to speed up to keep me from getting in front of him. I sped up and passed him luckily my car was faster than his and he began honking his horn and flipping me the finger. I just ignored him then he pulled up beside me yelling and cussing so I rolled down my window and said what’s the problem you were driving slow so I passed you. I’m going faster than you were so I’m not slowing you down so I don’t see why you have a problem with it. He was some young punk kid in his early 20s and he starts yelling and cussing me again and at this point I’m starting to get angry. I rolled up my window and ignored him again then he starts swerving his car towards me like threatening to hit my car and that’s when I lost it. I rolled down my window and yelled hey you gotta problem pull over and we’ll talk about it. He said oh you wanna pull over? I punched the accelerator and sped up in front of him and dived over all 5 lines on the freeway to the shoulder and stopped & got out of my car. He slowed down and rolled by telling me to follow him to a gas station down the street. Suddenly I realized what am I doing? I’m on my way to bible study standing on the side of the freeway yelling and cursing at a guy wanting to fight. I sighed and dropped my head in shame and got back in my car & drive off. Didn’t have any more problems from that guy and told my bible study group what happened. So yeah it took some time for me and a lot of prayers asking forgiveness to get to where I am today which while it is a major improvement over my former ways still isn’t anywhere near perfect. But I just keep running the good race everyday the best I can and keep on trying to do better.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Let me ask you a question. Do you get your sanctification from the Holy Spirit or do you help Him out with your works? Who cleans the inside of the cup, you? Paul says to abstain from fornication, that is your part in the sanctification. The other part is that you believe the truth. What else do you think you have to do?
What is the source of your righteousness?

Paul also said do not grieve the Holy Spirit in which you were sealed unto the day of redemption. We still have to choose whether or not we will adhere to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If we never adhere to His urging us to refrain from sin we never become a new creation. The new creation is not the same old person we were before we came to Christ. The new creation is a new person dead to his old ways.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And the moon can crash into teh earth! but that doesn't mean it will happen.

Jesus is the author and completer of our faith, the Holy Spirit seals us till the day of Redemption, Ours salvation is kept in heaven for us, we are the elct from the foundation of the world!

But that has nothing to do with peoples misunderstanding of Hebrews 10:14.

God completed us forever- now He is making us holy to be what He declared us to be!

So many people quote that verse out of context. What was Paul saying when he said we are sealed with the Holy Spirit?


“So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB

He continues this message in chapter 5


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB

Now was Paul teaching the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ not to make any effort to walk in the Spirit?

 

[zoidar]

So many people quote that verse out of context. What was Paul saying when he said we are sealed with the Holy Spirit?


“So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB

He continues this message in chapter 5


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB

Now was Paul teaching the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ not to make any effort to walk in the Spirit?

I think it's a matter of avoiding "real" sins. If we drive a bit too fast or walk for red, I don't think matters at all. I don't even think that is a sin. What IMO matters is like we are not lying to people to earn money, that we are helping people in need, forgiving those that ask us etc. In the end it's about giving our heart and life to the Lord, He will show us what we need to repent from. Many things are good to avoid, like not drinking too much coffee, it's just not something that has to do with sin IMO.

 

[nolidad]

So many people quote that verse out of context. What was Paul saying when he said we are sealed with the Holy Spirit?


“So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB

He continues this message in chapter 5


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB

Now was Paul teaching the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ not to make any effort to walk in the Spirit?

Not at all! He was encouraging them to walk in teh Spirit so they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Paul also calls this the old man and the new man! the new man who is being conformed to the image of Jesus- cannot sin, while the old men cannot do anything but sin.

But as for the sealing?

It is the greek word : sphragizō and means to seal up or close. It is used mostly to show ownership either by a brand or a signet marking it as belonging to a king or royal!

 

[RickReads]

But as for the sealing?

It is the greek word : sphragizō and means to seal up or close. It is used mostly to show ownership either by a brand or a signet marking it as belonging to a king or royal!

Yes, and anything the KING owns is clean, pure, sanctified.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not at all! He was encouraging them to walk in teh Spirit so they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Paul also calls this the old man and the new man! the new man who is being conformed to the image of Jesus- cannot sin, while the old men cannot do anything but sin.

But as for the sealing?

It is the greek word : sphragizō and means to seal up or close. It is used mostly to show ownership either by a brand or a signet marking it as belonging to a king or royal!

Amen no one will ever lose the Holy Spirit. Doesn’t mean they’re guaranteed salvation. That just means they will always be urged by the Holy Spirit to repent. What do you think Paul was saying in this portion of the message?

“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭NASB

Do you think he was saying that those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are exempt from being sons of disobedience? Do you think he was saying these who are sealed with the Holy Spirit cannot receive God’s wrath if they continue to be disobedient?

 

[Noxot]

The Shekinah Glory will leave the temple on certain occasions.

 

[RickReads]

The Shekinah Glory will leave the temple on certain occasions.

Yes, and the Holy Spirit will not abide in someone who isn`t saved.

 

[RickReads]

Amen no one will ever lose the Holy Spirit. Doesn’t mean they’re guaranteed salvation. That just means they will always be urged by the Holy Spirit to repent. What do you think Paul was saying in this portion of the message?

“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭NASB

Do you think he was saying that those who continue to grieve the Holy Spirit are exempt from being sons of disobedience? Do you think he was saying these who are sealed with the Holy Spirit cannot receive God’s wrath if they continue to be disobedient?

If they are a child of God then they will get straightened out. If they are a bastard they will not.
Heb 12:8