What About Progressive Sanctification?

[Aussie Pete]

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

There is no actual term "progressive sanctification" in God's word. The phrase "salvation of the soul" is stated twice. For some unknown (to me) reason, it is OK to talk about progressive sanctification but many denominations deny the idea of the salvation of the soul. Baptist teaching seems to align progressive sanctification with the salvation of the soul. I believe the confusion arises because of lack of knowledge. Man is a tripartite being, spirit, soul and body. The spirit is saved instantly - that's what it means to be born again. The soul should be "being saved" continually. That is the goal of our faith (1 Peter 1:9). One day the mortal body will be replaced with the "fit for purpose" spiritual body. That also is instantaneous.

The Bible makes it clear that there is a great deal that needs to be done in the Christian's life after he is born again. Whatever term is used - growing in Christ, coming to maturity, salvation of the soul or progressive sanctification - Christians need to know that the new birth is exactly that. We are like spiritual babies and we need to grow in grace and the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Aussie Pete]

How common do you think it is? I think of it as a widely held belief.

In Australia it is view widely held by Baptists and what used to be known as the AOG.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Sanctification isn`t really based on human effort. Like salvation, sanctification will produce human effort but it isn`t established by human efforts. You can`t get more saved than saved, same thing with sanctification.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 14

The confusion arises because of lack of understanding as to what salvation means. It's also because people gloss over important truths in the Bible. If salvation is instant, how come the goal of our faith is the salvation of our souls? (1 Peter 1:9) A goal is something to aim for, not something already established.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

That's a good way to describe it, but it probably should also be said that it's not a POV that is typical of Protestants or Protestant churches.

I will just say on the subject I like and often recommend this video from a Lutheran pastor and theologian Blogger. (I stumbled on it looking for materials for Protestants who are actually arguing against any form of theosis as being against the Bible, Justification by Faith, the Solas etc.)

 

[zoidar]

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

Not fully sure if I do. I know the heart can be mudded by sin. Being born again, does it always give us a pure heart at once? Santification would to me mean we get a purer, cleaner heart as we live with and for Christ.

 

[RBPerry]

Near as I can tell, a lot of issues that a Holy Roller like me would consider to be issues with being Spirit-Led are called Progressive Sanctification by Baptists, Calvinist, etc.

To be critical it seems like a doctrine that mixes works in with the ministry of the Holy Ghost. Which is why thus far I don't have a favorable view of it.

I tend to disagree with works based doctrine of sanctification. To me works is done in appreciation for what has been done for us. We love our children so the work we do for them is based on our love more than obligation. When we do things for the kingdom, it is based on our love of God and not motivated out of attempting to earn or prove ourselves worthy.
Sanctification is as Pentecostals may say, being filled with the Holy Spirit, or totally led by the Holy Spirit, it has nothing to do with works.

 

[Jamdoc]

All of that is wonderful, but are you more saved now than you were then? You more clean now than when your sin was washed away? To me, what you describe is the power he gave you to become a son of God.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12

PS, Don`t look at this as controversy, I`m for you not against you.

Salvation is not sanctification, Salvation is justification.
You're justified by grace through the atonement of Jesus Christ, but, we're not instantly made perfect we still have flesh and that flesh still sins against God. Sanctification only BEGINS at Salvation Philippians 1:6

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

This communicates that I still do something.

It does not say, I am the strings, you are the puppet.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That`s it? LOL! If I contrive a way to add sanctification to the verse you would feel better? I was expecting something more dramatic than that. I`m disappointed.

In every verse that uses the words sanctify or sanctification, it is a work of God. Doctrine in which man sanctifies himself or helps God to sanctify the man, isn`t Biblical. Sorry if that offends your Baptist indoctrination.

I posted the scriptures using that word and you skipped over that post though.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You don`t seem to want to accept the fact that the Holy Spirit will lead you to do all these things and to do them as a type of worship and because you want to.

The renewing of your mind is the renewing of the Holy Spirit within you.

For the Spirit led Christian it`s want to do not have to do. Maybe you are the one with subconscious slip eh?

Jesus said this;
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14

He doeth the works. I am just a vessel for His Spirit.

Instruction: Be transformed
Why bother instructing people?
The work is to trust.
If it was automatic regardless of your attitude, the instructions wouldn't be necessary.

 

[WanderedHome]

Well, I don't know your friends or which church you attended back then, but 'progressive sanctification' is not the majority POV among Protestants.

That doesn't mean that I'm horrified by it or that I'm saying that virtually no Protestants believe that way, but what I wrote initially I stand by.

I mean, there are people who struggled to understand the idea of sanctification, mainly because they didn't think about it that deeply, but it was clearly taught by most of the churches I attended if we were paying attention. The term itself was not used much, but the concept was there.

...Since coming to Orthodoxy, I am shocked by just how many ex-protestants really had no clue about their faith. I am finally discovering that a lot of what I believed back then was actually Orthodox. The frustrating thing is, no one believes me when I acknowledge it.

 

[Noxot]

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

As I understand it, progressive sanctification is simply growing in holiness or the image of Jesus day by day! That is what Hebrews says here! Sanctified is in the present passive participle which means its ending should be "ing" or to properly translate to English : Them that are being sanctified.

I couldn`t find the post but someone disputed the way this verse is translated.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Convenient, but if you believe this is a translation error then please explain why.

There is the post where he explained it.

These problems might be in part due to people's conception of freedom. The denial of our freedom means that only God exists. If God Wills that we have freedom then the denial of our freedom is sin.

because of the hardness of some people's hearts Jesus did not reference himself but rather he pointed to his father. In another place Jesus said that he is always working and that his father is always working. So you see that Jesus works and that the church is his body.

So it is not either/or because both Mankind and God have freedom and in the Holy Spirit they work together. If it was purely up to God we would all be perfect and his kingdom would be much more manifest in the world than it is

By the way a seal can be marred and disfigured. A pure white clothing can be ripped apart, muddied and otherwise polluted. Branches and leaves can be ripped off the vine.

 

[Noxot]

In fact the Trinity is the reason why I know that mankind has freedom. Jesus Christ was the answer acceptable to the father that mankind gave, because Jesus loved his father. Jesus is fully God and fully man. The first Adam felt more separated from God. Mankind's Freedom must be Justified and enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

John 14:31 but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Of course the Trinity is in perfect Unity and this is God's goal for us as well as he says in John 14.

God purifies the intentions of why we do the works. He further defines what works we can do. God is wisdom and strength, he gives himself to us and then we are like he is. But we have to want sanctification. We have to seek God and knock. God cannot work through our vessel as much as he wants if we are not his vessel. God even uses Satan for his own will but Satan has no part with God.

but if we do work as his beloved vessel then it is our work... just like if an evil spirit does evil through us then we do Evil too.

 

[RickReads]

The confusion arises because of lack of understanding as to what salvation means. It's also because people gloss over important truths in the Bible. If salvation is instant, how come the goal of our faith is the salvation of our souls? (1 Peter 1:9) A goal is something to aim for, not something already established.

I`m not sure what to say to all that at the moment. I`ve never thought of the soul as something that needs to be saved every day but I`ll look into it. Thx for the contribution.

 

[RickReads]

Not fully sure if I do. I know the heart can be mudded by sin. Being born again, does it always give us a pure heart at once? Santification would to me mean we get a purer, cleaner heart as we live with and for Christ.

For you, I`ll cut to the chase.

My primary concern with the idea of a "progressive sanctification" is that it seems to be a pseudo replacement for an active Holy Spirit among Christians who belong to dry churches.

For others, it becomes a way to inject works into the salvation process.

For conditional salvation believers, it can also serve as a license to sin in a similar fashion to the charges they like to make of OSAS Christians.

So, I`m just seeing lots of ways for this doctrine to go wrong and I`m not sure why I need to add "progressive" to my sanctification since I don`t normally accept terms I don`t see in my King James. Mind you, I`m not a King James fanatic.

PS, As for your remark. Yes, Jesus will clean up your heart and transform it.
You still have to work at it to maintain your purity. I never said you don`t but people like to make assumptions

 

[RickReads]

I tend to disagree with works based doctrine of sanctification. To me works is done in appreciation for what has been done for us. We love our children so the work we do for them is based on our love more than obligation. When we do things for the kingdom, it is based on our love of God and not motivated out of attempting to earn or prove ourselves worthy.
Sanctification is as Pentecostals may say, being filled with the Holy Spirit, or totally led by the Holy Spirit, it has nothing to do with works.

Yes. God wants us to serve Him because we love Him.

There`s also a greed factor that unfortunately is missing in many Christians. There is some kind of reward for good works that I just know we will all regret not striving harder for. I count myself a foolish man and think about that often.

 

[RickReads]

I posted the scriptures using that word and you skipped over that post though.

I was answering a lot of posts yesterday. I don`t know which post you mean.

 

[RickReads]

Salvation is not sanctification, Salvation is justification.
You're justified by grace through the atonement of Jesus Christ, but, we're not instantly made perfect we still have flesh and that flesh still sins against God. Sanctification only BEGINS at Salvation Philippians 1:6

Your verse is talking about a lot more than just purity and it is describing the work that God is doing not anything you are doing yourself. The "work" is to conform us into the image of God`s son, the passage refers to that, it`s not a sanctification verse.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I`m not sure what to say to all that at the moment. I`ve never thought of the soul as something that needs to be saved every day but I`ll look into it. Thx for the contribution.

The problem is with the word "salvation". It's come to be shorthand for going to heaven when you die. What is really means is "deliverance". The soul is unchanged when the spirit is born again. So we have a conflict between the new life in the spirit and what we've learned and experienced throughout our lives. For example, the world values independence greatly. In the Christian life, it is a curse. We need complete dependence on God. I started school when I was 4 years old. My mother took me the first day. The next day, I told her not to bother because I knew the way. We can't afford to be like that with the things of God! I had to learn to be totally dependent on God - not on myself.

 

[RickReads]

The problem is with the word "salvation". It's come to be shorthand for going to heaven when you die. What is really means is "deliverance". The soul is unchanged when the spirit is born again. So we have a conflict between the new life in the spirit and what we've learned and experienced throughout our lives. For example, the world values independence greatly. In the Christian life, it is a curse. We need complete dependence on God. I started school when I was 4 years old. My mother took me the first day. The next day, I told her not to bother because I knew the way. We can't afford to be like that with the things of God! I had to learn to be totally dependent on God - not on myself.

I really get your point. It`s just going to take me a while to form an opinion about it.