What About Progressive Sanctification?

[RickReads]

I read it, but didn't see what you meant.

Ok, I reposted in message #40, take a look and well talk.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"work in progress thingy was your words not mine." But you don`t want to talk about it anymore and that's ok. I guess asking you to read a post on the previous page is asking too much.

Apologies, I may have been irritable when I posted last, and decided to walk away from the screen for a bit.

Well, I can switch gears like I do with other similar ideas that introduce a handicap.

The concept of Spiritual Maturity, and the relation of the word commonly translated as perfect to maturity talks about the same thing.

Justification and Sanctification are terms I learned in a Baptist Church - I don't really mind not using them if they don't speak to you that way.

How does the term Spiritual Maturity and Progressive Spiritual Maturity speak to you?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

until the redemption of the purchased possession

This term?

 

[Redwingfan9]

I think this is probably the correct understanding. It`s not a terrible thing to believe so I don`t think I can say I`m opposed to people believing this. I just think the Bible says something a little different.

What is progressive sanctification? | GotQuestions.org

Now that we have defined terms, I know what you're talking about. 1 Cor. indicates that Christ is our sanctification. It is from our union with Christ that sanctification flows from. Just like justification, sanctification flows from Christ.

Romans 6:1-14 indicates that sanctification is progressive in our lives. We don't simply wake up one morning free from all of our sins. In fact, I find that once believers think they're free from sin God will reveal something in their hearts that is sinful. Beyond that the scope of the law is vast and expansive. Anyone who views the 10 commandments as a check list of 10 things not to do is deluding themselves about their sinful nature.

Point being sanctification is progressive in our lives as we become more holy and knowledgeable in the faith. We will never be perfect, we may backslide. But over time our works will be seen.

 

[WanderedHome]

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

Regarding sanctification, there is a sense of the "already, but not yet." Many protestants would agree with us, as they understand it this way too. However, they often misunderstand our beliefs and practices as "dead works."

In the Eastern Orthodox tradition- at our Baptism services- we read (among other passages) which states, "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11)

However, the baptismal waters are not a magic potion so that everyone in the splash zone gets saved. We must walk out the truths proclaimed over us at our baptism through obedience to Christ and dying to self. This is a lifelong process. Paul tells us, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." (Gal. 5:6)

We have to daily repent of our sins and seek to follow Christ. It is in this way that baptism saves us, "not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 3:21)

Paul further says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:12)

 

[nolidad]

If they were for ever perfected by the one offering why do they need to be being sanctified?

Well I can give you all sorts of philosophical and reasonable theories, but the only answer we have is that God declared us complete (positional truth) and now He is making us to be what He declared us to be (experiential truth)

Teh example I have used to explain this to mu students is this:

A sculptor receives a huge block of marble. He sees the statue inside the block and then begins to chip and smooth away all the marble that does not belong!

God for His reasons opted not to make us perfect in thought word and deed the moment He saved us! Instead like a human child, we are gorwing into who we are to become and are learning all that our new man is all about!

 

[Seek the Lord]

What About Progressive Sanctification?

I don`t really believe in it.

Tell me why you do.

Good question, i think I do. The bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. But besides that I think there is also something called positional Sanctification. Eph 2:6 tells us that He has made us sit together in heavenly places. I believe the moment we are born again our spirit man has received a heavenly position in Christ. But in our souls still some work needs to be done. Rom 12:2 the renewing of the mind. Putting off the old man with its deeds and to put on the new which is renewed in knowledge according to the Image of God.

 

[RickReads]

This term?

Paul is referencing the first resurrection. You are a purchased possession bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. You belong to Him and He has made an earnest payment to you in the form of the Holy Spirit
Which marks you as His and seals you/sanctifies you until the day He redeems you fully at the first resurrection. The Holy Spirit is the power that will generate your resurrection from the dead or transforms you while still alive AKA rapture.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Paul is referencing the first resurrection. You are a purchased possession bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. You belong to Him and He has made an earnest payment to you in the form of the Holy Spirit
Which marks you as His and seals you/sanctifies you until the day He redeems you fully at the first resurrection. The Holy Spirit is the power that will generate your resurrection from the dead or transforms you while still alive AKA rapture.

So what about references to maturing spiritually?

 

[RickReads]

Apologies, I may have been irritable when I posted last, and decided to walk away from the screen for a bit.

Well, I can switch gears like I do with other similar ideas that introduce a handicap.

The concept of Spiritual Maturity, and the relation of the word commonly translated as perfect to maturity talks about the same thing.

Justification and Sanctification are terms I learned in a Baptist Church - I don't really mind not using them if they don't speak to you that way.

How does the term Spiritual Maturity and Progressive Spiritual Maturity speak to you?

I like Bible words. Justification and sanctification without the addons both are.

I dunno what Spiritual Maturity and Progressive Spiritual Maturity are.

Consider this,

Romans 8

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The language is all past tense, done deal in Gods`s mind. No progressive anything, sanctified when justified.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I like Bible words. Justification and sanctification without the addons both are.

I dunno what Spiritual Maturity and Progressive Spiritual Maturity are.

Consider this,

Romans 8

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The language is all past tense, done deal in Gods`s mind. No progressive anything, sanctified when justified.

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

I get the sense you're missing it, because you don't want to see it.

 

[WanderedHome]

That's a good way to describe it, but it probably should also be said that it's not a POV that is typical of Protestants or Protestant churches.

Well then I, and just about every protestant I knew, must have been the exception (I am assuming by "protestant" we mean "all Christians who are not Catholic or Orthodox"). Although we wouldn't have used words like theosis and deification... but we had the same idea. We also wouldn't have believed that deification was possible in this life.

 

[RickReads]

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

I get the sense you're missing it, because you don't want to see it.

See what?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

See what?

Romans 12
1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

That we would not be provided instructions like the above if we didn't have to do anything.

It is also possible that you are arguing against a salvation requirement, which might be why we keep going in circles. (because we perceive the discussion differently)

 

[RickReads]

Romans 12
1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

That we would not be provided instructions like the above if we didn't have to do anything.

It is also possible that you are arguing against a salvation requirement, which might be why we keep going in circles. (because we perceive the discussion differently)

What salvation requirement? Now you really have my attention. I need to know before I address your remark.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What salvation requirement? Now you really have my attention.

It seems to be implied by the way you're reasoning.

So I was hoping you'd come out and say it, so I'd finally know what the conversation was about.

It's entirely possible it doesn't make sense because it doesn't, but I try my best to empathize anyway.

 

[RickReads]

So what about references to maturing spiritually?

That`s the Holy Spirits task.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That`s the Holy Spirits task.

So, I just sit here and do nothing - and If I don't feel lead to - too bad, that's the Holy Spirit's job?

 

[RickReads]

It seems to be implied by the way you're reasoning.

So I was hoping you'd come out and say it, so I'd finally know what the conversation was about.

It's entirely possible it doesn't make sense because it doesn't, but I try my best to empathize anyway.

I can`t say it because I don`t know what you are talking about. LOL! Please tell me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I can`t say it because I don`t know what you are talking about. LOL! Please tell me.

I got the sense there was a subconscious argument against a salvation requirement since in your theology there is no difference between justification and sanctification.