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Featured What about Ezekiel 37:10 "breath of life, they stand on feet" Reve 11:11

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Since another member created a thread on Ezekiel 38 and 39,

    Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39
    =====================================
    I thought I would do one on Ezekiel 37, particularly the "Valley of Bones"

    Ezek 37:10 is interesting as it is practically the same event that is showing in Revelation 11:11 concerning the 2 witnesses
    It is a resurrection/born again in spirit resurrection concerning the whole House of Israel and also the Gentiles after the Cross and Pentecost.

    Discuss..............

    Ezekiel 37 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study


    Ezekiel 37
    1 Becomes a hand of Yahweh on me, and He is bringing forth me out
    in a spirit of Yahweh.
    And is setting me in midst of the Valley<1237> and it is full of bones.
    2 He causes me to pass<5674> by them round about-round,
    and behold! many ones, exceedingly, on faces<6440> of the valley. And behold! very dry ones.
    3 And His is saying to me "Son of adam! shall these bones live"?
    And I am saying "Adonay/Lord<136> Yahweh<3069>, Thou knowest"
    4 And He is saying to me "prophecy thou! over these bones,
    and thou sayest to the bones, the dry ones, hear a word of Yahweh!
    5 Thus says Adonay Yahweh to these bones, behold! I bringing in ye a spirit and ye live.
    6 And I give upon ye sinews<1517> and I bring up upon ye flesh and skin I cover<7159> ye and I give in ye a spirit/breath, and ye live.
    Ynd ye knowest that I Yahweh".
    7 And I prophesy which I am commanded, and is becoming a sound as I prophesy.
    8 And behold! a quaking<7494> and the bones are drawing near, bone to bone him.
    And I see and behold! sinews and flesh comes up and spirit/breath is not in them.
    9 And He is saying to me "prophesy thou! to the Spirit, prophesy thou!
    thus says Adonay Yahweh, from four of winds come Thou, the Spirit and blow-breath<5301> in these ones slain, and they shall live.
    10 And I prophecy as He commanded me
    and the breath/spirit is coming in them
    and they are living
    and they are standing<5975> upon their feet, an exceedingly<3966> great army, exceedingly<3966>
    11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam! these bones are the whole house of Israel.
    12 Therefore prophecy thou! and thou say to them 'thus He says Adonay Yahweh, behold! I am opening the tombs of ye and I bring ye up from thine tombs of ye, people of Me.
    And I bring ye to ground<127> of Israel.

    13 And ye knowest that, I Yahweh, in to My opening of the tombs of ye,
    and I bring up of Me ye, from tombs of ye, people of Me.
    14 And I give spirit of Me in ye and ye live
    and I settle ye on ground of ye and ye knowest that I Yahweh, I speak and I do, a declaration of Yahweh.

    ===============================
    7307 ruwach from 7306;
    wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger,

    5975 `amad a primitive root;
    to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative, intransitive and transitive):--abide (behind), appoint, arise, cease, confirm, continue, dwell, be employed, endure, establish, leave, make, ordain, be (over), place, (be) present (self), raise up, remain, repair, + serve, set (forth, over, -tle, up), (make to, make to be at a, with-)stand (by, fast, firm, still, up), (be at a) stay (up), tarry.
    [Greek equivalent <G2476>]

    =====================
    I picked out this verse as it appears to resemble the event of the 2 witnesses being "resurrected".

    Ezekiel 37:10

    And I prophecy as He commanded me,
    and the breath/spirit<7307> is coming in them
    and they are living

    and they are standing<5975> upon their feet,
    an exceedingly<3966> great army, exceedingly

    ====================================
    2 verses I found where both "spirit/breath" and "stand" are used in NT.

    Revelation 11:11
    And after the three days and a half,
    a spirit/breath of life<4151> out of the God entered in them
    and they stand<2476> on their feet
    and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.

    =========
    4151. pneuma from 4154;
    a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit,...........................

    2476. histemi a prolonged form of a primary stao stah'-o (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
    to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively):--abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare 5087.
    Hebrew equivalent <H5975>


    .


    .

     
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  2. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Your position is not entirely clear to me. You indicated---"as it is practically the same event"---which seems to indicate to me that you see similarities, but that you don't actually see them meaning the same event. If I misunderstood you though, and that to you "practically the same event" and "the same event", this means the same thing to you, I could think of a cpl of things that might debunk that.

    Ezekiel 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
    5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
    6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

    The first thing to note is this---and ye shall know that I am the LORD. The 2W would already know that.

    Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

    When the 2W stood up on their feet though, the following is what occurred.

    Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

    Unless I'm missing something here, doesn't sound like that once they stood upon their feet, an exceeding great army, to me.

    Yet what is possible though, if we also take Revelation 19:14 into consideration like you did in the OP here, is this.

    Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    Perhaps this might explain an exceeding great army. The 2W first rise on their feet, they ascend to heaven, the 7th trump then sounds, thus the 2nd coming, they are then seen as part of the armies returning with Christ in Revelation 19. Even if that works, I still can't see how one can fit the 2Ws with that of the following declaration in Ezekiel 37:4---and ye shall know that I am the LORD. That sounds like something that God had said about the house of Israel in Ezekiel 39, where initially He was hiding His face from them, then no longer was after the judgment on Gog. So once again, the 2Ws wouldn't need to be convinced He is the LORD. They would already be convinced of it and already know while they were still alive. Plus God wouldn't have been hiding His face from them at any time.
     
  3. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    God's enemies rejoice too soon, "After 3.5 days Life's Spirit came into them, and they stood up, and fear fell upon those that saw them."

    That's always been the Church's experience under God's guidance: the martyr's blood was its seed. And by God's grace such events have a good effect; they impress souls that've been held in captivity by Antichrist, and cause them to come to truth's knowledge.
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Perhaps some related verse in the NT.........

    Ezekiel 37:10

    I prophecy as He commanded me, and the breath/spirit<7307> is coming in them and they are living and they are standing<5975> upon their feet, an exceedingly<3966> great army, exceedingly
    Revelation 11:11? Revelation 20:5?]
    ========================================
    Luke 2:34
    And Simon blesses them and said toward Mariam His mother,
    "behold! this-One is set/lying into a Fall and resurrection/standing-up<386> of many in the Israel, and into a Sign being spoken against" [Revelation 11:11 Revelation 20:5?]

    Both of the previous verses concern the "resurrection" in Israel, so why should Revelation be any different? Aren't these "2 witnesses" witnessing in Israel?

    Revelation 11:11
    And after the three days and a half, a spirit/breath of life<4151> out of the God entered in them and they stand<2476> on their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.

    Revelation 20:5
    The rest of the dead no they live<2198> until should be being finished<5055> the thousand<5507 years.
    This the resurrection/standing up<386>, the first.

    .
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


    Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
    Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


    2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.




    :amen:

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  6. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Of course, Little Lamb's position is not clear. The reason is, as I stated before, He misapplied Scripture to one event. For example:

    Per my post on Ezekiel 37 earlier, the dry bones refer to our spiritual decay before we were born again by the Spirit of God. God is talking about All those who "hear" Christ and know Him as Lord. It is the Whole House of Spiritual Israel. This has NOTHING to do with Jews in 70AD, holocast of 1930's , modern nation of Israel. he got wrong Israel.

    Keep in mind that the Two Witnesses are the New Testament Saints who have received power (Holy Spirit) at Pentecost to prophesy Gospel with the world. That is the whole New Testament period because this has to do with the Church, which is a representative of God's Kingdom on Earth. They are only part of the Dry Bones that are being resurrected by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the home of the Two Witnesses is the great city which is the CHURCH. But unforeuenetly, prior to Second Coming, she has become "Spiritually" as Sodom and Egypt where the testimony of Two Witnesses has been killed (silenced) in the church. Where? Church! Not Israel as Little Lamb or even Pre-millennialists thought!

    .

    I can see the confusion created by someone here. Let review between the two:

    Ezekiel 37:10-11 KJV
    [10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
    [11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

    Revelation 11:11-13 KJV
    [11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    [12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    [13] And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    Ezekiel 37 is about the salvation for the whole house of Israel, being born again from the dry bones. In Revelation 11, however, the Two Witnesses are Elect who ALREADY been born again. When their testimony for the purpose of bringing salvation to secure all Elect first is finished, then beast comes out of the bottomless pit, will overcome Two Witnesses and KILL THEM (silence their testimony). They were dead in the great city. Their death signifies the silence of the Gospel in the church. In other word, no more salvation because all Elect has been secured. But after three and half days (symbolically), the Spirit of life come upon Two Witnesses and they stood upon their feet. This has nothing to do with their salvation because it has to do with their resurrection from THAT DEATH (silence of Gospel) so they will prophesy AGAIN, this time, as judgment against the church. Not salvation. That is why verse 13 is talking about the judgment of the whore where the great city fell, and earthquake slain 7,000 men (signifies) totality and fullness of all men without seal of God being killed (deceived by the beast). Only the remant are the Elect who can "see" the burning of a great city and are affrighted by the judgment of God upon her. That is the whole point of Revelation 11!

    Nothing to do with Israel or 70AD!

    The armies are ALL elects who will be with Christ. At the Last Trump. The dead in Christ (believers, including Old testament Jewish Elect) will already come down with Christ. And those who are "alive and remain" on Earth will be rapture to meet with them in the air.

    Yes, the great army are the armies who come with Christ. They are all Saints from Old and New Testament to be joined with Christ.

    Revelation 11:12-15 KJV
    [12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    [13] And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    [15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    Therefore, the standing upon their feet and ascended up to heaven in a cloud is NOT the rapture since our Last Trump won't take place until the seventh trumpet when the seventh angel shall sound. So then what does standing upon their feetand ascended up to heaven refers to if its not the rapture. That is something else I will discuss later.

    Close.

    1.) The resurrection of Two Witnesses (upon their feet) signifies that they are being empowered by God to prophesy JUDGMENT against the Great City right prior to Second Coming where the enemies are being afraid (ie. being offended by their mobility).

    2.) Ascended into heaven in a cloud. They are fleeing to the stronghold (mountain) of God for protection while God is judging unfaithful church.

    3.) When the judgment of the whore, which is still part of sixth woe, is finished, then the seventh angel shall sound. At that time, Christ shall be revealed in the air, and the Elect will be raptured up to meet with the Lord and the Saints before them.

    More on that later. It's late tonight.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    What does the text say?

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


    (CJB) and their dead bodies will lie in the main street of the great city whose name, to reflect its spiritual condition, is "S'dom" and "Egypt" -- the city where their Lord was executed on a stake.

    (ESV) and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

    (Geneva) And their corpses shall lie in the streetes of the great citie, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord also was crucified.

    (Greek NT TR) και τα πτωματα αυτων επι της πλατειας πολεως της μεγαλης ητις καλειται πνευματικως σοδομα και αιγυπτος οπου και ο κυριος ημων εσταυρωθη

    (GW) Their dead bodies will lie on the street of the important city where their Lord was crucified. The spiritual names of that city are Sodom and Egypt.

    (LITV-TSP) And their bodies will be on the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom, and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified.

    (KJV+) AndG2532 theirG848 dead bodiesG4430 shall lie inG1909 theG3588 streetG4113 of theG3588 greatG3173 city,G4172 whichG3748 spirituallyG4153 is calledG2564 SodomG4670 andG2532 Egypt,G125 whereG3699 alsoG2532 ourG2257 LordG2962 was crucified.G4717

    (NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    (YLT) and their dead bodies are upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)



    Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    .
     
  8. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I’ll response later today. I’m out of town for an event.
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    You are quite correct, this prophecy applies to us today, to our Spiritual condition.

    Ezekiel 37:1-10 The prophesy of the valley of dry bones.
    Ezekiel 37:11-14....these bones are the whole people of Israel, they say; our bones are dry, our hope is gone.... The Lord says; My people, I shall bring you up from your graves and restore you to the Land of Israel. You will know that I am the Lord when I do this. I will put My spirit in you and settle you on your own soil.

    The Israelites were punished by God for their sins by dispersion into other lands. That is why they cry ‘our hope is gone, we are cut off’, they have lost their Israelite identity, and become spiritually dead. Note that the bones, which metaphorically represent all 12 tribes of Israel, are displayed in an open field, showing that their exile is not an actual captivity. Ezekiel’s task is to bring the good news to them, to revive their hope and faith, that they are still God’s people, He hasn’t broken His covenant with them, He still loves them and the time has come when He will restore them and all who believe in Him, into the Promised Land.

    This gathering of all God’s people, now every faithful Christian, be they actual descendants of Jacob or grafted in, must happen before the Millennial time and the war of Gog and Magog in order for the Temple to be rebuilt and the 144,000 to be selected. This Spiritual death of the children of Israel will not last much longer. Through the prophet Elijah [Malachi 4:5], God will awaken them to their divine destiny. The long exile will be over; they will establish their own politically independent State in all of the Holy Land. The new nation of Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 The first stage of this redemption has been done in part of the Land, by the Jewish people, but they too, have not yet received a renewal of God’s Spirit.
    The ‘dry bones’ prophecy of Ezekiel does not mean physical resurrection of the dead, but is a symbolic vision, similar to other Biblical allegories. It means the end of exile and the beginning of restoration. Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:24-28 & 38


    Ezekiel 37:15-28... I am taking the leaf of Israel and joining it to the leaf of Judah; they will be as one in My hand. I shall assemble them from every quarter and restore them to their own soil....
    The prophecy of the ‘dry bones’ continues on to the “two leaf” prophecy. This is the time when the House of Judah rejoins with the House of Israel, separated since King Rehoboam’s time. It is only when the both Houses reject their apostasy and sins, that they will be ready to become one nation again, a nation of priests and a light to the world. Still, this is not the final redemption, but a preliminary one, to enable their regathering and settlement into the Land of Greater Israel. Final redemption of the whole House of Israel, Jew and Gentile, will follow the destruction of the armies of Gog, who is motivated to attack because Beulah will be so wealthy and prosperous.

    Ezekiel 38 & 39 The attack on New Israel by the armies of Gog and their destruction.
    38:8...you will invade a land restored from ruin....the Israelites, brought out from the nations, living in peace and prosperity. [after the Psalms 83 event and before the Return of Jesus]

    Ezekiel 39:21-29....from that Day forward the Israelites [now every faithful Christian] will know that I am the Lord their God...... I have dealt out to them what their sins deserved... now I shall restore all of them, leaving none behind and make them exemplify My Holiness for many nations to see. No longer will I hide My face from them, I who have poured out My spirit on Israel. This is the Word of the Lord. Reference: REB. Some verses abridged.
     
  10. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am back and am ready to respond to what God said in Revelation 11:8. I know that you have quoted that verse to me before but the question is do you really understand it, honestly? I do not think so.

    It is no coincidence that Jesus and His Body, the Church, are related. Jesus preached for three and a half years before He as Killed. Likewise, the Two Witnesses (Elect) preached for 1,260 days because being killed by the Beast. God makes sure that we understand it's a relationship to this end time event has He informs us that WHERE the BODY of Christ (Two Witnesses) is killed, is where our Lord was Crucified, Revelation 11:8! Selah!

    This is because the Church is intimately identified with the Body of Christ as He "IS" the Temple of God in which we live and breathe and have our being. We indeed are the Body of Christ. When the beast kills the Two Witnesses, they have in effect crucified Christ afresh. Our testimony for salvation has ceased. For inasmuch as they do it to Christ's Church, they do it unto Christ. Selah! They are killed RIGHT IN THE great city which is the Church. The believers being dead or lifeless in the streets [plateia] or wide space of this great city signifies their state in the midst of the Church. The witness of God is no longer tolerated there and the power that these had to preach the Word of God there has been taken from them. They have been overcome and silenced by the beast (false prophets and christs, and professed Christians with the spirit of antichrist) release from the bottomless pit by God. The beast affects their witnesses or testimony IN the church. They can not effectively preach in the external covenant Church anymore because the spirit of Satan is ruling there through the false prophets and christ. They have replaced the truthful testimony with their own propersity gospel, feel-good gospel, non-judgment gospel, tolerates homosexuality and women in position, speaking in tongues, entertainments, etc. That is why the leaders of the Church like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers and tons of others have departed from the faith unto doctrines of devils. This is WHY God said of this great city that, it is "SPIRITUALLY" called Sodom and Egypt. because though the external Church still retains the name of Christ, SPIRITUALLY speaking it has BECOME as these two cities (Sodom and Egypt) which were infamous for their abominations and bondage to Satan. When God's people turn from God and forsake His Laws and Gospel, God speaks of them in the SPIRITUAL SENSE as being in bondage of Egypt and in the abominations of Sodom.

    Therefore, NO, God NEVER talk about physical Jerusalem Revelation 11:8. Spiritual Discernment!
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    We do not have to always agree on every point.

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    The text says it is the city where the Lord was crucified.
    If we ask 100 unbiased witnesses, most would agree that city is Jerusalem.

    If you disagree, that is OK with me.

    I still love you, Brother.


    .
     
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tsk, tsk!

    You, my friend, are in error thinking that consensus matters. If that were the case, then the 12 apostles would have remained in unbelief right along with the vast majority of the house of national Israel. But they had the same Spirit as the Bereans, an honest, nobler Spirit, to abandon the consensus of the time and embrace the actual word of God concerning matters. A consensus is NOT what God is after. So I'm not concerned with whether the beliefs of "10 unbiased witnesses" align with mine or not, but rather if mine aligns with the unadulterated word of God itself which you have not shown me yet! That's what's important to me.

    1st Corinthians 2:4
    • "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
    • That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
    The consensus in man's wisdom does not truth make, but the power of God is revealed in the unadulterated word of truth direct from the Lord's mouth. Meaning, if I can quote it, God said it and it cannot be righteously gainsaid or resisted. Your so-called "unbiased witnesses" sounds like they do not have the power of God nor spiritual understanding, to begin with anyway!
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If we cannot depend upon what the text says, then it cannot be "the unadulterated word of truth direct from the Lord's mouth".


    Revelation 11:8

    (ESV) and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

    (Geneva) And their corpses shall lie in the streetes of the great citie, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord also was crucified.

    (Greek NT TR) και τα πτωματα αυτων επι της πλατειας πολεως της μεγαλης ητις καλειται πνευματικως σοδομα και αιγυπτος οπου και ο κυριος ημων εσταυρωθη

    (GW) Their dead bodies will lie on the street of the important city where their Lord was crucified. The spiritual names of that city are Sodom and Egypt.

    (LITV-TSP) And their bodies will be on the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom, and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified.

    (KJV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    (KJV+) AndG2532 theirG848 dead bodiesG4430 shall lie inG1909 theG3588 streetG4113 of theG3588 greatG3173 city,G4172 whichG3748 spirituallyG4153 is calledG2564 SodomG4670 andG2532 Egypt,G125 whereG3699 alsoG2532 ourG2257 LordG2962 was crucified.G4717

    (NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    (YLT) and their dead bodies are upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

    Instead, we would have to depend on you to be our source of truth...

    Tsk. tsk!

    .
     
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You’re repeating yourself with straw man so youre not getting any closer to the truth.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I agree that the great City is symbolizing Jerusalem.

    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    Dead bodies......corpses

    4430. ptoma from the alternate of 4098;
    a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcass, corpse.
    G4430 πτῶμα (ptōma), occurs 5 times in 4 verses

    Revelation 11
    8 And their corpses G4430 shall lie in the street<4113> of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their corpses G4430 three days and an half, and shall not suffer their corpses G4430 to be put in a tomb<3418>

    Mar 6:29
    When his disciples heard of it, they came and took away his corpse G4430 and laid it in a tomb.

    Matthew 24:28
    for wherever the corpseG4430 may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.
    =========================================

    Old Testament

    6297 peger from 6296;
    a carcass (as limp), whether of man or beast; figuratively, an idolatrous image:--carcase, corpse, dead body.
    H6297 פֶּגֶר (peger),occurs 22 times in 21 verses
    "corpses"occurs 11 times in 10 verses in the NKJV.

    Isa 66:24
    “And they shall go forth and
    look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me.
    For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

    Jer 7:33
    “The corpses of this people will be food for the birds of the heaven and for the beasts of the earth. And no one will frighten them away.

    Jer 16:4

    “They shall die gruesome deaths; they shall not be lamented nor shall they be buried, but they shall be like refuse on the face of the earth.
    They shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, and their corpses shall be meat for the birds of heaven and for the beasts of the earth.”

    Jer 19:7

    “And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place, and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies and by the hands of those who seek their lives;
    their corpses I will give as meat for the birds of the heaven and for the beasts of the earth.

    Eze 6:5

    “And I will lay the corpses of the children of Israel before their idols, and I will scatter your bones all around your altars.

    Nah 3

    1 Woe to the bloody City! It is all full of lies and robbery. Its victim never departs.
    2 The noise of a whip And the noise of rattling wheels, Of galloping horses, Of clattering chariots!
    3 Horsemen charge with bright sword and glittering spear.
    There is a multitude of slain, A great number of bodies,
    Countless corpses—They stumble over the corpses
    4 Because of the multitude of harlotries of the seductive Harlot,
    The mistress of sorceries,
    Who sells nations through her harlotries, And families through her sorceries.
    =====================================
    Revelation 19:2
    That true and righteous His judgings,
    that He judges the great Whore who corrupts the earth in Her whoredom,
    and avenges<1556> the blood of His bond-servants out of Her hand.
    ================================================
    Isa 66:24
    “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me.
    For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

    ......................................
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  16. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you actually think God is talking about physical dead bodies lying around in a physical city of Jerusalem to fit your 70AD destruction of the city by Romans? You totally misunderstood what God said. Please do your homework and read the context carefully.

    Revelation 11:3-4 KJV
    [3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    [4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    Tell me, what power is it that God gave to Two Witnesses before the beast kills them? When did they receive the power to PROPHESY? How long will their PROPHESY actually last before the beast comes out of the bottomless pit?

    Revelation 11:5 KJV
    [5] And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

    Tell me, the enemies are destroyed with fire coming out of Two Witnesses' mouth. Do you think it happened literally? Yes or no? Did it happen in 70AD? Humm?

    Revelation 11:7 KJV
    [7] And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Tell me, why will the testimony of the Two Witnesses finished before beast could come out of the bottomless pit with the ability to kill them? How will he kill them that their power is taken away? Physically with their dead bodies in the street? Again think about it.

    Revelation 11:8 KJV
    [8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    You believe this verse is talking about some physical bodies of Two Witnesses lying in the streets of Jerusalem for the Romans and the world to look at? Seriously? Tell me what happened after 3-1/2 days of their death? Was it literally 3-1/2 days? Or is it symbolizing something? Why didn't the people bother to bury them? Please explain this biblically!

    Revelation 11:11 KJV
    [11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

    Tell us, what does the period of "three days and a half" actaully refers to? What is Spirit of Life that caused Two Witnesses to stand up? Why? And for what purpose?

    Therefore, it is not dead corpse you thought God talked about here! Do you even understand what the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses signify? Probably not!
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Others might disagree with you, just as some have disagreed with me on some issues.
    Now, can we get on with the topic at hand without the personal insults?

    Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

    .
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    More Strawman. I can see that you still can't answer the questions I posted to you regarding the context of Revelation 11. Therefore, your interpretation for verse 8 alone remain refuted.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


    Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.



    Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    Paul used the two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church in Romans 11.

    Jesus used the candlesticks as a symbol of the churches in Revelation 1.


    What did Jesus say about Jerusalem in the verse below?

    Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    James, the half brother of Jesus who was the leader of the church in Jerusalem, was murdered in that city.

    The persecution continues at the present time, based on what we find below.



    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Let's look at some of Ezekiel 37 then and see exactly which Israel is in mind.

    Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

    Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


    Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions

    And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt


    The key to which Israel is meant, assuming there is also a spiritual Israel, as you allege, is the following. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt

    God is the speaker here. He clearly says of the Israel meant here---wherein your fathers have dwelt. Obviously these fathers are not meaning ancestors of any Gentiles. It's clearly meaning the fathers of ethnic Israelites. For you to conclude what you are concluding though, is to make God out to be a liar and to make God out to be not even knowing what He's talking about here. You totally disregard the context here. Your interpretation makes total nonsense out of this part---And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt.

    Did or did not their fathers literally dwell in literal land with geographic boundaries in the Middle East? Do you spiritualize that too? If the land where their fathers dwelt is to be interpreted literally, then it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, that when the text also indicates---And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant---that that land is literal as well, the fact it's referring to the exact same land their fathers dwelt.

    If you want to continue promoting some of your nonsensical interpretations, such as you do here, then have it. But don't expect some of the rest of us to be so naive that we think your interpretation could possibly be correct though.
     
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