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Featured What about Ezekiel 37:10 "breath of life, they stand on feet" Reve 11:11

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Funny. Not only you have avoided verse 19-22 about the stick of Judah (Jews of Old) and Ephraim (Gentiles of New) into a ONE HOLY NATION as Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise through Covenant Israel, but you also didn't mention verse 24. Why? Because it disputes your premillennial view of Israel!

    Please read the context:

    Ezekiel 37:23-25 KJV
    [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
    [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
    [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
    God did not promise us nor Jews a physical land! People like you are as blind as the Pharisees that also seek a physical kingdom, king, land, buildings, nation, etc.

    And we continue...

    Ezekiel 37:26-28 KJV
    [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
    [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    [28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

    This is confirmed in the New Testament which you FAILED to compare with Ezekiel 37. John wrote:

    John 10:14-16 KJV
    [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
    [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
    [16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
    [31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    [32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
    [33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    [34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    The NT quotes this passage word for word and lets us know without a doubt that the covenant that God would establish with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" in which He would "forgive their iniquity" and "remember their sin no more" is none other than the new covenant that Jesus Christ established through His shed blood on the cross. PERIOD! I won’t post it here but you need to read Hebrews, chapters 8 – 10 (the quote from Jeremiah is found right there in chapter 8 ). Also, pay careful attention to how that phrase is repeated in the scriptures that I just posted – “I will be their God, and they will be my people”. Like I said, this refers to all of God’s people from all nations of the world, including the Jews, - - the Elect whom He chose before the foundation of the world. This is what you and so many Christians do not understand today. God has always had only one group of people – the “ekklesia”, the assembly, the called out ones, the elect – made up of people from every nation, including the Jews of Old and New Testament! Don't forget, before the cross, it primarily consisted of Jews with a few Gentiles (people such as Rahab and Ruth). After the cross, it consists of mostly Gentiles with a remnant of Jews (Paul and the twelve, and every Jew who has come to Christ since His resurrection). Christians are not “interlopers” and “trespassers” in the covenant as many of you suggested, as well as their false accusation of "replacement theology. Christians (Jews and Gentiles as one body in Christ) were always the object of the NEW covenant. They are the ones who would be His people, and He would be their God. And they will have land, which is heavenly Jerusalem. Not a pile of dirt over there in the Middle East.
     
  2. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good, good. So you agree that Two Witnesses are God's Elect within New Covenant Church - the one who has received Holy Spirit to prophesy Gospel for 1,260 days?

    Ahem!

    Think about it. Who would kill the Two Witnesses? Is it not the beast the comes out of the bottomless pit, right, Revelation 11:7? So are you saying that a Jerusalem is a beast out of bottomless pit who kill Christian and their testimony? Obviously, you do not make any biblical sense here. Else, you would have to explain how Jerusalem got into a bottomless pit in the first place!
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Yes. That is what the text says.

    Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


    .
     
  4. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Stop avoid answering all questions regarding this. If you believe that the beast of Revelation 11:7 is Jerusalem herself, then you need to explain when did Jerusalem go down to the bottomless pit in the first place for a thousand years anyway? And why? Where is a biblical proof for that?

    I am waiting for your answers!
     
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    I don't have a premillennial view of Israel that I'm aware of. Unlike some other Premils, I don't place Ezekiel's temple during the millennium, nor do I think Ezekiel 37 does not involve Christ. Of course it does. My point is this. By spiritual Israel I take that to mean you are referring to both Jews and Gentiles alike, meaning the believers who make up spiritual Israel. Yet in Ezekiel 37, the Israel meant there does not also include any Gentiles though. In that context it is clearly referring to ethnic Israel. The same ethnic Israel where the LORD God indicates He will take from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land. The same ethnic Israel Where God declares the following about them---Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God

    As to your interpretation of the 2Ws though, not really disputing anything about that atm. It's mainly who you are taking Israel to be meaning in Ezekiel 37 that I question. When the Israel meant in Ezekiel 37 fulfill those things, they will be believers and followers of Christ from that point on. So I'm not saying while Israel remains in disbelief, they also fulfill Ezekiel 37 entirely. At some point the Israel meant here will no longer remain in disbelief. The Israel meant here has to be back in their land for forever. The last time before the present time in our day and age, when they were back in their land, was in the first century, but they did not remain there for forever. The text in Ezekiel 37 demands they be in their land for ever. They are back in their land now. I'm guessing for forever this time around. This indicates God is hardly through with Ethnic Israel, but that He still has future plans for them.

    The chronology is such, though I realize it's usually only Premils that concern themselves with chronology.

    First He has to take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

    Which then results in the following.

    And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    It can't get any clearer than this. It plainly says they shall dwell therein, for ever, meaning in the land that He has given unto Jacob His servant, wherein their fathers have dwelt. To deny what this plainly says is to imply that God is a liar and won't literally cause these things to come to pass.
     
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  6. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God corrected you:

    Matthew 21:19-20 KJV
    [19] And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
    [20] And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

    A fig tree = Israel. The verse is prophesied about the fall of Old Testament Congregation of Israel that she will not be a nation again to represent God's Kingdom or be used by God again for His Kingdom in the future... EVER!

    Matthew 21:42-45 KJV
    [42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    [43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    [44] And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
    [45] And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

    What nation did Christ give the kingdom to after took it from Israel? Why, of course, the New Testament Congregation, the Church which is bringing forth the fruits (Saints) since the Cross! What make you think that the kingdom will go back to Israel again after this? Nowhere in Scripture confirms this!

    Therefore, you got wrong Israel!
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I like figs...............

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Matthew 24:
    32 ‘And from the fig-tree<4808> learn ye the simile:
    When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer<2330> [is] nigh,
    33 so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh — at the doors.

    Mark 13:
    28 ‘And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile:
    when the branch may already become tender, and may put forth the leaves, ye know that nigh is the summer<2330>;
    29 so ye, also, when these ye may see coming to pass, ye know that it is nigh, at the doors.

    What is nigh at the doors? The Kingdom of God!

    Luke 21:
    29 And he spake a simile to them: ‘See the fig-tree, and all the trees,
    30 when they may now cast forth, having seen, of yourselves ye know that now is the summer<2330? nigh;
    31 Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these-things becoming ye are knowing that nigh is the Kingdom of the God.

    Revelation 6:13
    13 and the stars of the heaven fell to the land — as a fig-tree doth cast the ruined-ones of it by a great wind being shaken
    16 - and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, 'Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,
    17 - because come did the great day of His wrath, and who is able to stand?

    fig-newton-day.jpg
     
  8. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I prefer milk and meat of the Gospel.



    Jesus did not talk about Israel here. He was using the actualy fig tree and all other trees that were standing around Christ and his listeners when he gave a parable. He was saying that when we "see" trees start to tender and set forth leaves as we always saw in the spring times. He said, "LIKEWISE, when you see all things come to pass..." He is comparing seeing physical trees with the ability to notice the signs of Christ's coming that he just explained. Nothing to do with your 70AD Israel or modern nation of Israel.

    It is in the book of Revelation where God has compared his New Testament Congregation of Israel which is currently a representative of His Kingdom on Earth right now this side of the Cross. Not your national Israel in 70AD because the kingdom representative was taken from her. Therefore Revelation 6:13-17 is talking about the fall and desolation of unfaithful new testament congregation as God judged her. Selah!
     
  9. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry dude, you got WRONG Israel and WRONG land to begin with anyway. It is because many people LACK spiritual discernment. He did not talk about actual land. But that's okay, Jesus warned us about people like that:

    John 8:43 KJV
    [43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    When Christ said to destroy this temple and in three days he will raise it up (John 2:19). Many people will think he was talking about physical temple but He did not. When Christ said to eat his flesh and his blood (John 6:26–27), many people will turn off by hearing this and refused to eat him literally and walked away, but that was not what Christ talked about. Likewise, when God talked about promising His people a land, many people will believe there will be physical land restored to a national Israel or kingdom of God, but that is not what God talked about. Why are people reading but do not understand what God says is because they do not have the spirit of Christ to discern it. A spirit that will tell you exactly what abomination of desolation is. A spirit that will tell you exactly who is the antichrist. A spirit will tell you exactly who is New Jerusalem is. The answer is right there in the Bible. Not world news, YouTube, etc.

    Abraham already knew that he will not have an earthly "land" but a better country which is heavenly Jerusalem.

    So... there!
     
  10. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    So you flat out deny, thus do not believe the historical account, that the land that He had given unto Jacob His servant, wherein their fathers have dwelt, that this was literally literal land in the Middle East?
     
  11. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Read the context please:

    Ezekiel 37:23-28 KJV
    [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
    [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
    [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
    [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
    [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    [28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

    So...DavidPT...reading this literally, God is going to take the Jewish children of Israel from all the lands which they've been scattered, and gather them together in the literal land of Israel in the Middle East that can be visited even today. These people will include those who have been dispersed, not only since 70AD, but also will include the northern kingdom of Israel taken captive by the Assyrians hundreds of years earlier. Blah blah blah...

    And they shall be gathered together on the mountains of Israel, where David (not Jesus) will be king over them forevermore, and will be their shepherd. God will make an everlasting covenant of peace with them, and will set His sanctuary in their midst (on the literal mountains of literal Israel) forevermore. Also His tabernacle (dwelling place) shall be there forevermore too. As it says in verse 25 so clearly; " and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever", so this is obviously a permanent fixture right? Hummmm....

    So in the light of everything that the New Testament Scriptures have to say about the eternal kingdom to come, do you honestly not see any problem with interpreting the above type of Scripture purely on a physical level, really? For example, am I supposed to believe that Christian believers will spend eternity in the presence of Jesus in a new heaven and earth, whilst the Jews spend eternity under the kingship of David on a physical land in the Middle East? Forever? Or would we be in two different dimensions or something? Does this mean there really are two separate people of God now and forever, and never the twain shall meet?

    These are valid questions that you quoting one verse and claiming it must be read literally does not answer, at least not in a manner that is backed up by Scripture elsewhere. Especially when the surrounding verses to the verse I quoted above, you read it with carnal glasses, create a virtual hermeneutical train wreck! Frankly, I suggest you stop looking down and start looking up, and what I mean by that is you start focussing upon Christ and His kingdom, which is NOT OF THIS WORLD! (John 18:36). National Israel WILL NOT be qualified as Christ's kingdom on this world, period!

    People often claim a spiritual interpretation of such passages verges upon anti-Semitism, and yet you are the one relegating a whole race of people, supposedly God's own people, to an eternity spent in an inferior environment to that which is promised to those in Christ. How does that view hold the moral upper hand precisely? Surely we are one people, under one King who is Jesus Christ, who is the true servant Israel.

    Sad!
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Ezekiel 37:10
    And I prophecy as He commanded me, and the breath/spirit<7307> is coming in them
    and they are living and they are standing<5975> upon their feet, an exceedingly<3966> great army, exceedingly
    11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

    Revelation 11:11
    And after the three days and a half,
    a spirit/breath of life<4151> out of the God entered in them
    and they stand<2476> on their feet
    and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.

    ================================================
    A few more verses linking Matt and Luk to Revelation "stand"

    Malachi 3
    1 Behold! Sending Messenger of Me, and He paves way before Me
    and suddenly the Lord shall come to His Temple of Whom ye ones seeking,
    and Messenger of the Covenant whom ye ones delighting. Behold! He come says Yahweh of Hosts.
    2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who is able to stand when He appears? For He [is] like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap.
    [Luke 21:36 Revelation 6:16-17]
    ===============

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
    Matt 24:42 Luk 21:36 "Watch therefore"

    Matthew 24:1
    And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.....
    Mark 13:1
    And He going forth out of the Temple.......
    Luke 21:5
    and of some saying concerning the Temple,.........
    [Malachi 3:1]
    ========================
    Mat 24:42Watch therefore, for ye do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
    Mat 25:13 “Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
    Mar 13:35Watch therefore, for ye do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning—
    Luk 21:36Watch therefore, and pray always that ye may be strong to escape all these things being about to be becoming,
    and to stand before the Son of Man.

    Revelation 16
    16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lambkin
    17 that came the great day of His wrath, and who is able to stand'.
    [Hosea 10:8 Malachi 3:2 Luke 21:36 Luke 23:30]

    .......................................
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  13. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    What's sad is that you are not addressing my questions. My questions are simple. So let's try again. My questions needing answered are in bold below. Until you can answer them first, this discussion is meaningless.

    Let's deal with the following first.


    Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.



    the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt---was that literal land in the Middle East? Or should this land be spiritualized? Keeping in mind, when their fathers dwelt in the land at the time, it was meaning ages ago. Way before the first century for sure.

    If you agree their fathers dwelt in literal land in the Middle East, that meaning the land God gave to His servant Jacob---to be consistent then---and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever--you have to agree that this is also meaning literal land in the Middle East. After all, it's referring to the exact same land where their fathers have dwelt.

    It is clearly a contradiction to spiritualize this part---And they shall dwell in the land---and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever---while at the same time taking the following part literally---the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt.
     
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I hope you did not see these two Scriptures as speaking of about the same event. The "they" in Ezekiel 37:10 refers to the whole house of Israel -- all Elect from the Old and New Testament. While the "they" in Revelation 11:11 refers to Two Witnesses -- The New Testament Church prior to Second Coming. The standing upon their feet signifies to prophesy.

    By the way, I am still waiting for your explanation on your belief that the beast of Revelation 11:7 being Jerusalem who comes out of the bottomless pit to kill Christians. How did Jerusalem get into the bottomless pit in the first place to fit your doctrine anyway? If you can't explain it then obviously your belief is in an error.
     
  15. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sigh... how long have you been with me here on CF? I have explained in several posts on my position which obviously answered your questions.

    It's the typical rebuttal from some theologians, so perhaps I will add something addressing this. Do you agree that Jacob is part of Abraham's family, right? Although it's a fairly easy one to answer. God himself tells us that the land that he promised "Abraham and his Seed" was not a physical land, but the promised land of the Kingdom. And that both he and his seed would receive it. Keep that in mind! He NEVER received the physical land, THUS, the immutable faithful Promise of God "To Him," was not for the Physical land. Now I know you who practice all sorts of exegetical and hermeneutical gymnastics in order to get around this clear contradiction, but but listen... God's Word speaks for itself. Abraham didn't get the physical land that was promised him, "IF" it was physical land. Observe carefully:

    Genesis 13:14-17
    • "And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
    • For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    • And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
    • Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."
    So, forever is a long time, agreed? But the fact is, if God gave the physical land to the nation Israel forever, unconditionally, then God has broken His Promise/Covenant, now hasn't He?

    And if the land was given only given "conditionally," then these theologians don't have a leg to stand on, do they? Selah. For Israel did NOT fulfill the conditions.

    Well, we know God is not a Liar, and doesn't break unconditional Covenants. So the physical land was OBVIOUSLY not given Israel "unconditionally forever." Nor was that what that passage in Genesis chapter 13 ACTUALLY promised.

    Galatians 3:15-19
    • "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
    • Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    • And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    • For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    • Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."
    While at a cursory reading, it may seem like God promised Abraham and national Israel the physical land FOREVER, a careful reading of the whole Bible reveals the Promise to Abraham and his Seed. ..which is Christ. Likewise, as scripture tells us, The Children of Israel spent 430 years in Egypt, and they were given the law upon the Exodus. The Promise/Covenant made before with Abraham, the law can't make null and void. For exampple, the Promise/Covenants were not about the physical people of Israel being set free from physical Egypt, nor about a physical land for them to live on earth forever in peace and safety, it spoke of a Spiritual deliverance from a spiritual Egypt in Christ Jesus, and a Spiritual Promised land they would receive. And it spoke of the Seed, which was Christ. Not seeds, which would be descendants or all the physical nation of Israel. Get it?! Hello?!

    Genesis 13:15-16
    • "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    • And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered."
    Let us not lose sight of the fact the Promise/Covenant was made to both Abraham and his Seed, and God explains what that meant. So, like you, man cannot righteously re-explain it to mean something totally different! Selah!

    And in reality, we should also know by simple Biblical reasoning and logic that the literal land could not have been the land that God promised: "Abraham and his Seed" in Genesis chapter 13. Because if it was, then God broke that Promise, as Abraham never received that literal land. Selah! Note that in this passage, God didn't say to your "descendants" I will give this land, even though the man says that. No, God said to "Abraham and his Seed He would give it. And God tells us the Seed in view is Christ. Moreover, that Promise/Covenant of necessity included Abraham in the deal. Ergo, the land that Abraham saw, the land that he was told to look NORTH, SOUTH, EAST and WEST from (Revelation 21:13), the land that he was told to "rise" and walk through the length and breadth of it (Revelation 21:16), the land of the Promise/Covenant, he saw through Spiritual eyes. ..was a Spiritual land, a spiritual country wherein dwells righteousness. And he RECEIVED that land that was Promised Him. But not this sin-cursed land in the Middle East on this sin-cursed earth. His Promise/Covenant made on earth, in reality, was established in Christ after death. Thus, it had nothing to do with the literal, or rather physical land where the Arabs and Jews are currently fighting over. It was to Abraham and his Seed (as of one, SINGULAR), which God tells us, spoke of Christ! Genesis 13 speaks of Seed, not "descendant/s" as has been unrighteously translated.

    Hebrews 11:13-19
    • "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
    • For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
    • And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
    • But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
    • By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,[
    • Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
    • Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."
    Even as Abraham confessed himself (Genesis 23:4) a stranger and a sojourner among men, signifying that his very literal pilgrimage foreshadowed this life as a pilgrimage towards the Promise of land that will be ours forever. And, guess what, it won't be in the Middle East. Selah!
     
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Ezekiel 37:10
    And I prophecy as He commanded me, and the breath/spirit<7307> is coming in them
    and they are living and they are standing<5975> upon their feet, an exceedingly<3966> great army, exceedingly
    11 Then He said to me, "Son of 'adam! these bones are the whole House of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

    Revelation 11:11
    And after the three days and a half,
    a spirit/breath of life<4151> out of the God entered in them
    and they stand<2476> on their feet
    and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
    ============================================

    Romans 9:27

    Isaiah yet cries-out over the Israel "if-ever may be the number of the sons of Israel as the sand of the sea, the Remnant shall be being saved". [Revelation 14:1 Revelation 20:8]
    Romans 11:26
    And thus all Israel shall be being Saved according as it has been written:
    'shall be arriving out of Sion the One-rescuing and He shall be turning away irreverence from Jacob'.

    Rev 14:1

    And I see and behold! the Lambkin standing upon the mount Zion
    and with it a hundred forty four thousands having It's name and the name of the Father of it having been written upon their foreheads.

    Eze 14:22
    “Yet behold! there shall be left in it a remnant who will be brought out, both sons and daughters; surely they will come out to you, and you will see their ways and their doings.
    Then you will be comforted concerning the disaster that I have brought upon Jerusalem, all that I have brought upon it.

    Jeremiah 44
    12 ‘And I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to go into the land of Egypt to dwell there, and they shall all be consumed and fall in the land of Egypt. They shall be consumed by the sword and by famine. They shall die, from the least to the greatest, by the sword and by famine; and they shall be an oath, an astonishment, a curse and a reproach!
    14 ‘so that none of the remnant of Judah who have gone into the land of Egypt to dwell there shall escape or survive, lest they return to the land of Judah, to which they desire to return and dwell.
    For none shall return except those who escape.' ”
    =======================
    Deuteronomy 28:
    64And the LORD shall scatter thee among all peoples, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers, even wood and stone. 65And among these nations shalt thou have no repose, and there shall be no rest for the sole of thy foot; but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and languishing of soul. 66And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear night and day, and shalt have no assurance of thy life.
    67In the morning thou shalt say: ‘Would it were even!’ and at even thou shalt say: ‘Would it were morning!’ for the fear of thy heart which thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
    68And the LORD shall bring thee back into Egypt in ships, by the way whereof I said unto thee: ‘Thou shalt see it no more again’;
    and there ye shall sell yourselves unto your enemies for bondmen and for bondwoman, and no man shall buy you.


    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
    "..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
    ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"......
    Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death.....................

    Then the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.

    After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
    whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

    .......................
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  17. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    God promised that the southern kingdom (Judah) would be joined to the northern kingdom (Ephraim) and they would become one nation, under one king

    Ezekiel 37:15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, “And you, son of man, take a single stickb and write on it: ‘Belonging to Judah and to the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick and write on it: ‘Belonging to Joseph—the stick of Ephraim—and to all the house of Israel associated with him.’ Then join them together into one stick, so that they become one in your hand.

    Ezekiel 37:21-22 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms

    Through Christ's death, the children of God would be gathered into one.
    john 11:51-52 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

    Paul states that through Christ, we are all one.
    galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus

    __________________________________________________________________________________

    God promised that even though during the time of Hosea the northern kingdom had become "not my people", one day He would call them "my people". And the northern kingdom would be united with the southern kingdom under one head.
    Hosea 1:10-11 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.” And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

    Hosea 2:23 And I will have mercy on No Mercy,h and I will say to Not My People,i ‘You are my people’;
    and he shall say, ‘You are my God.’”

    Paul quotes Hosea 1:10-11 as fulfilled in the first century. Many of the 10 northern tribes had been scattered for 700 years prior to the coming of Christ, mixing genetically, socially, and religiously with the surrounding nations thus fulfilling God's promise that Ephraim would become a multitude of nations. Paul then reveals the mystery that the gentiles becoming a part of the people of God fulfills his promise to the 10 northern tribes (Ephraim). The gentiles, which include the 10 northern tribes, and the Jews coming together under one head, who is Christ, fulfills hosea. And if it fulfills hosea, it fulfills Ezekiel 37, of the 2 people becoming one under one king, the one head.

    Genesis 48:19 But his father refused. “I know, my son, I know!” he said. “He too shall become a people, and he too shall be great; nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations.”

    Romans 9:24-26 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
    there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

    Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Ezekiel prophesied that there would be one shepherd of all of them when they would be united.
    Ezekiel 37:24 My servant David will be king over them, and there will be one shepherd for all of them.

    Jesus states he would bring this other flock in, to make one flock under him, the ONE shepherd.
    John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.

    Paul has this fulfilled with the death of Christ, who created one new man out of two.
    Ephesians 2:14-15 For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.
    _________________________________________________________________________________

    Paul has God dwelling with them in the first century, thus fulfilling Ezekiel 37:27.
    Ezekiel 37:27 dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

    2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    You quoted Ezekiel 37:25 which states they shall dwell in the land given to Jacob forever and David shall be their prince forever.
    Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    Do you believe David is their prince forever or David actually points to Jesus?

    If you believe it means Jesus and not David, then why do believe the land is the literal physical land of Israel?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  18. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    After having read your reply here, the only thing I basically disagree with is that you don't take the land as literal. Just because David isn't likely meaning king David but is likely meaning Christ, why does that matter? If someone said it's raining cats and dogs, but since it doesn't mean literal cats and dogs, does that mean the raining shouldn't be taken literal as well?

    When Jesus comes back to this planet, well He's only one physical person and that He has to dwell somewhere on this planet. Why not in the promised land? That sounds far more logical than Him taking up residence somewhere in the USA, or somewhere in Mexico, etc. Unless you didn't notice, but when Jesus came the first time, it was in the promised land where He took up residence. You might argue that it's because that's where His people were living at at the time. Doesn't Ezekiel 37 indicate His ppl return back to the promised land? Why doubt literal land is in view here then?
     
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  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do not think you get it. There were two sets of Promises/Covenants made with the nation of Israel concerning the land. The conditional Promises/Covenants to Israel under the law, who could never keep them. And the unconditional Promises/Covenants for the Israel of God under grace, who would see them fulfilled in Christ. All the promised land that Abraham could look north, south, east and west and see, is the Promised land of the kingdom that he, through "his Seed," would inherit. A universal land with citizens from all four points of the compass (Matthew 8:10-11). And that Seed the passage spoke of is Christ, not the nation of Israel.

    Genesis 13:14-17
    • "And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
    • For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    • And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
    • Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."
    Forever is a long time. But the fact is, if God gave the physical land to The nation Israel forever, unconditionally, then God has broken His Promise/Covenant, now hasn't He?

    The Promise/Covenant made before with Abraham, the law can't make null and void. For example, the Promise/Covenants were not about the physical people of Israel being set free from physical Egypt, nor about a physical land for them to live on earth forever in peace and safety, it spoke of a Spiritual deliverance from a spiritual Egypt in Christ Jesus, and a Spiritual Promised land they would receive. And it spoke of the Seed, which was Christ. Not seeds, which would be descendants or all the physical nation of Israel.

    Genesis 13:15-16
    • "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    • And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered."
    And Jesus Christ does not need physical soil for a promised land for His kingdom is spiritual. Selah!
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The Davidic Line and the Covenants:
    Soon after the nations had been dispersed at Babel, God entered into a Covenant with Abram, for the purpose of blessing the world through him and his descendants, who we know are only people of faith; Jew and Gentile. Galatians 3:26-29

    This covenant, known as the Abrahamic Covenant unconditionally promises three things to the Lord’s people: land / seed or descendants / and blessings. These three promises are amplified in further covenants that God made with the original, natural descendants.

    The Land, all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates, has never been fully occupied solely by any cohesive group as yet.

    This seed aspect of the Abrahamic Covenant’s promises is later amplified in what is known as the Davidic Covenant. After God rejected Saul, God selected David from among Jesse’s sons, leading to David’s anointing as the nation’s second king.

    In time, God entered into a covenant with David, promising that through David’s lineage would come an eternal house, throne, and kingdom.
    The Gospels confirm Jesus Christ as the unique Davidic descendant who will one day rule the world from Jerusalem.

    While the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are unconditional, the Mosaic Covenant is conditional; Exodus 19-23 Thus, any given generation within Israel must meet the conditions of the Mosaic Covenant in order to experience the blessings promised in the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants. They must enthrone the king of God’s own choosing, Deuteronomy 17:15, thereby satisfying the condition of obedience found in the Mosaic Covenant.

    First-century Israel failed to enthrone Jesus, so they lost the covenantal blessings. Such a rejection not only led to first-century Israel’s failure to gain the Kingdom blessings, but also to a long interim age when the Davidic kingdom would be kept hidden. Luke 19:11-27

    During this time of postponement, the ascended Christ has been elevated to the Father’s right hand. Acts 2:33-34; Psalms 110:1 In this position of glory, Jesus continues His ministry spiritually, in which He functions as priest and our Comforter. Matthew 28:20

    Many years elapsed between David’s anointing as king and when David actually began to reign after Saul’s death. In the same way, Christ has been anointed at His Ascension as the one who will ultimately fulfill the Davidic Covenant. However, He will not begin to actually rule as Davidic king until the nations are made His footstool and Satan has finally been deposed at the inauguration of the Messiah’s earthly kingdom.

    Revelation 3:21 He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

    Those trusting in Christ will be rewarded (future tense) by joining Him in His earthly reign, Revelation 5:10a, just as Christ overcame and sat down (past tense) on His Father’s heavenly throne. Nowhere is it said that we humans go to live in heaven.

    During the future glorious one-thousand year era, everything that was promised in the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants will find a literal fulfilment when Christ will rule the world from Jerusalem. This earthly kingdom will then merge into the Eternal State, fulfilling the Davidic Covenant’s eternal requirement. 1 Corinthians 15:24
    Ref: A Woods
     
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