Were the "Nephilim" and the "Sons of God" the same thing?

tonychanyt

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Genesis 6:4 New International Version
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—
At time=1: There existed the Nephilim.
and also afterward—
Afterward, at time=2
when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
The Nephilim were around at both times. The passage is very ambiguous. This is only one of the many possible interpretations.

The Nephilim
הַנְּפִלִ֞ים (han·nə·p̄i·lîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 5303: Nephilim -- 'giants', name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood

Wiki:
The majority of ancient biblical translations – including the Septuagint, Theodotion, Latin Vulgate, Samaritan Targum, Targum Onkelos, and Targum Neofiti – interpret the word to mean "giants."[9] Symmachus translates it as "the violent ones"[10][11][12] and Aquila's translation has been interpreted to mean either "the fallen ones"[10] or "the ones falling [upon their enemies]."[12][13]
the sons בְּנֵ֤י (bə·nê)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 1121: A son

of God
הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ (hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 430: gods -- the supreme God, magistrates, a superlative

In the Bible, are the "Nephilim" and the "Sons of God" the same thing?

The following says "No":
  1. Pulpit Commentary
  2. Keil and Delitzsch
  3. Barnes
  4. Matthew Poole
  5. Gill
 

David Kent

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No the nephilim were the result (offspring) of the sons of God taking as wives the daughters of men.
The scripture doesn't say that. It says that the nephilim were in the world at that time.
 
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d taylor

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The scripture doesn't say that. It says that the nephilim were in the world at that time.
-
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.
 
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Paul4JC

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Can you justify your "NO"?
Only the word of God is justified.

Nephilim were not fallen angels, who were sons of God aka bene elohim.

[Job 2:1 ESV] Again there was a day when the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] אֱלֹהִים came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also (being a son) came among them to present himself before the LORD. Italics mine

[Job 38:7 ESV] when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] shouted for joy?

[Psa 82:6 NIV] "I said, 'You are "gods"430´Élöhîm ; you are all sons of the Most High.' [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm

[Gen 6:4b,c NIV] when the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
 
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tonychanyt

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Only the word of God is justified.

Nephilim were not fallen angels, who were sons of God aka bene elohim.

[Job 2:1 ESV] Again there was a day when the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] אֱלֹהִים came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also (being a son) came among them to present himself before the LORD. Italics mine

[Job 38:7 ESV] when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] shouted for joy?

[Psa 82:6 NIV] "I said, 'You are "gods"430´Élöhîm ; you are all sons of the Most High.' [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm

[Gen 6:4b,c NIV] when the sons of God [1121 ḇə·nê of 430´Élöhîm] went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
None of your verses contain the word "Nephilim".
 
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d taylor

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and therefore Nephilim and Sons of God cannot be the same thing? Are you not jumping to conclusions?

Well then counter his verses with ones that would show nephilim and Sons of God are the same being.
 
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Job 33:6

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Genesis 6:4 New International Version

At time=1: There existed the Nephilim.

Afterward, at time=2

The Nephilim were around at both times. The passage is very ambiguous. This is only one of the many possible interpretations.

The Nephilim
הַנְּפִלִ֞ים (han·nə·p̄i·lîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 5303: Nephilim -- 'giants', name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood

Wiki:

the sons בְּנֵ֤י (bə·nê)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's 1121: A son

of God
הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ (hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 430: gods -- the supreme God, magistrates, a superlative

In the Bible, are the "Nephilim" and the "Sons of God" the same thing?

The following says "No":
  1. Pulpit Commentary
  2. Keil and Delitzsch
  3. Barnes
  4. Matthew Poole
  5. Gill
Nephelim are the offspring of the sons of God. The sons of God are angels, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6-8.

The nephelim are giants but are present before and after the flood.

The sons of God were imprisoned in chains and shackles under dark gloom until the day of judgement. So the sons of God were not roaming the land of Canaan. According to Peter and Jude.

Therefore the sons of God are not nephelim. Because the nephelim were never described as having been imprisoned, as the sons of God were.
 
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tonychanyt

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Therefore the sons of God are not nephelim. Because the nephelim were never described as having been imprisoned, as the sons of God were.
Are you using the word "therefore" in the First-Order Logical sense?
 
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Job 33:6

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Are you using the word "therefore" in the First-Order Logical sense?

Just collectively laying out details. The nephelim were distinguished from the sons of God in Genesis.

The angels in 2 Peter and Jude are not referred to as nephelim.

The nephelim were on the earth before and after the flood, whereas the sons of God were imprisoned.

Collectively, the sons of God can be distinguished from the nephelim. Whereas the nephelim are described subsequently to the statement of them coming unto human women.

I'm not sure how some early church fathers dropped the ball on this one. Seems as though the author of the book of Enoch got it right.
 
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tonychanyt

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Just collectively laying out details. The nephelim were distinguished from the sons of God in Genesis.

The angels in 2 Peter and Jude are not referred to as nephelim.

The nephelim were on the earth before and after the flood, whereas the sons of God were imprisoned.

Collectively, the sons of God can be distinguished from the nephelim. Whereas the nephelim are described subsequently to the statement of them coming unto human women.

I'm not sure how some early church fathers dropped the ball on this one. Seems as though the author of the book of Enoch got it right.
Thanks for the clarification :)
 
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ViaCrucis

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No. The nephilim are the "heroes of old, men of renown".

As to the identity of the sons of God, a lot of ink has been spilled. I maintain that the sons of God and daughters of men are just references to two groups of people. Possibly referring to the descendants of Seth and descendants of Cain respectively.

The nephilim, therefore, were mere mortal men. Hence their being called "heroes of old, men of renown".

There are several reasons why I reject the sons of God = angels theory. But the most basic reason is that angels don't have bodies, they therefore don't have reproductive parts or carry genetic information. Sexual reproduction is a property that belongs to flesh and blood creatures which need to pass on their genetic information from one generation to the next. The command "go forth and multiply" was never given to angels, but to plants, animals, and human beings.

Angels don't have bodies, but "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire" (Psalm 104:4, Hebrews 1:7). Jesus says that in the resurrection, the bodily raised shall be like the angels in that, like the angels, the resurrected will "neither marry nor be given in marriage" (Matthew 22:30).

No angel-human hybrids.
No race of fantasy giants.
Just people.

-CryptoLutheran
 

Job 33:6

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No. The nephilim are the "heroes of old, men of renown".

As to the identity of the sons of God, a lot of ink has been spilled. I maintain that the sons of God and daughters of men are just references to two groups of people. Possibly referring to the descendants of Seth and descendants of Cain respectively.

The nephilim, therefore, were mere mortal men. Hence their being called "heroes of old, men of renown".

There are several reasons why I reject the sons of God = angels theory. But the most basic reason is that angels don't have bodies, they therefore don't have reproductive parts or carry genetic information. Sexual reproduction is a property that belongs to flesh and blood creatures which need to pass on their genetic information from one generation to the next. The command "go forth and multiply" was never given to angels, but to plants, animals, and human beings.

Angels don't have bodies, but "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire" (Psalm 104:4, Hebrews 1:7). Jesus says that in the resurrection, the bodily raised shall be like the angels in that, like the angels, the resurrected will "neither marry nor be given in marriage" (Matthew 22:30).

No angel-human hybrids.
No race of fantasy giants.
Just people.

-CryptoLutheran
The nephelim were men of renown because though they were men, they were part divine. Because their parents were both human (the woman) and angel (the sons of God) and sometimes they were 2/3 human and 1/3 angel, with a human father and mother, and an angel that dwelled within one of the two.

Also, there are many examples of angels having physical bodies in the old testament. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Sometimes angels come and eat dinner with people. Sometimes they physically wrestle with people.

Angels in the old testament were described very similarly in form as people.

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. He said, “Please, my Lords, turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the square.” But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them.” Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
Genesis 19:1‭-‬7 NRSV

He looked up and saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent entrance to meet them, and bowed down to the ground. He said, “My Lord, if I find favor with you, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. Let me bring a little bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, “Make ready quickly three measures of choice flour, knead it, and make cakes.” Abraham ran to the herd, and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to the servant, who hastened to prepare it. Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree while they ate.
Genesis 18:2‭-‬8 NRSV

The same night he got up and took his two wives, his two maids, and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. He took them and sent them across the stream, and likewise everything that he had. Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he struck him on the hip socket; and Jacob's hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. Then he said, “Let me go, for the day is breaking.” But Jacob said, “I will not let you go, unless you bless me.” So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” Then the man said, “You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with humans, and have prevailed.” Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved.”
Genesis 32:22‭-‬30 NRSV

Now the angel of the Lord came and sat under the oak at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, as his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the wine press, to hide it from the Midianites.
Judges 6:11 NRSV

And the angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Although you are barren, having borne no children, you shall conceive and bear a son. Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like that of an angel of God, most awe-inspiring; I did not ask him where he came from, and he did not tell me his name; but he said to me, ‘You shall conceive and bear a son. So then drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, for the boy shall be a nazirite to God from birth to the day of his death.’ ”
Judges 13:3‭, ‬6‭-‬7 NRSV

"A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like that of an angel".

Angels in parts of the old testament have an appearance as something similar to, if not almost indistinguishable, in some instances, from people.

Angels having sexual interaction with humans was also common in literature of old testament times. And was common in second temple period literature.

Also, the nephelim are not just regular humans. They're described in many passages in the Bible as being giants.

amos 2:9
numbers 13:32 to 33
Deuteronomy 2:20‭-‬21
deuteronomy 3:11
1 samuel 17:4

This includes of course the mighty Goliath, of Gath, where the remnant of the rephaim remained in which King David waged war.

Peter and Jude lay it out clear as day:
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment; and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he saved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood on a world of the ungodly; and if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example of what is coming to the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4‭-‬6 NRSV

And the angels who did not keep their own position, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great Day. Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:6‭-‬7 NRSV

in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19‭-‬20 NRSV

When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.
Genesis 6:1‭-‬4 NRSV

The angels that rebelled in the time of Noah. The spirits in prison, imprisoned in gloomy darkness.

The Bible spells this all out very clearly. The sons of God are pointed to over and over and over again as divine beings.

So unless someone can address these passages, it's case closed.
 
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Job 33:6

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The nephelim were men of renown because though they were men, they were part divine. Because their parents were both human (the woman) and angel (the sons of God) and sometimes they were 2/3 human and 1/3 angel, with a human father and mother, and an angel that dwelled within one of the two.

Also, there are many examples of angels having physical bodies in the old testament. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Sometimes angels come and eat dinner with people. Sometimes they physically wrestle with people.

Angels in the old testament were described very similarly in form as people.

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. He said, “Please, my Lords, turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the square.” But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them.” Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
Genesis 19:1‭-‬7 NRSV

He looked up and saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent entrance to meet them, and bowed down to the ground. He said, “My Lord, if I find favor with you, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. Let me bring a little bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, “Make ready quickly three measures of choice flour, knead it, and make cakes.” Abraham ran to the herd, and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to the servant, who hastened to prepare it. Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree while they ate.
Genesis 18:2‭-‬8 NRSV

The same night he got up and took his two wives, his two maids, and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. He took them and sent them across the stream, and likewise everything that he had. Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he struck him on the hip socket; and Jacob's hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. Then he said, “Let me go, for the day is breaking.” But Jacob said, “I will not let you go, unless you bless me.” So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” Then the man said, “You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with humans, and have prevailed.” Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved.”
Genesis 32:22‭-‬30 NRSV

Now the angel of the Lord came and sat under the oak at Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, as his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the wine press, to hide it from the Midianites.
Judges 6:11 NRSV

And the angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Although you are barren, having borne no children, you shall conceive and bear a son. Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like that of an angel of God, most awe-inspiring; I did not ask him where he came from, and he did not tell me his name; but he said to me, ‘You shall conceive and bear a son. So then drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean, for the boy shall be a nazirite to God from birth to the day of his death.’ ”
Judges 13:3‭, ‬6‭-‬7 NRSV

"A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like that of an angel".

Angels in parts of the old testament have an appearance as something similar to, if not almost indistinguishable, in some instances, from people.

Angels having sexual interaction with humans was also common in literature of old testament times. And was common in second temple period literature.

Also, the nephelim are not just regular humans. They're described in many passages in the Bible as being giants.

amos 2:9
numbers 13:32 to 33
Deuteronomy 2:20‭-‬21
deuteronomy 3:11
1 samuel 17:4

This includes of course the mighty Goliath, of Gath, where the remnant of the rephaim remained in which King David waged war.

Peter and Jude lay it out clear as day:
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment; and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he saved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood on a world of the ungodly; and if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example of what is coming to the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4‭-‬6 NRSV

And the angels who did not keep their own position, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great Day. Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:6‭-‬7 NRSV

in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19‭-‬20 NRSV

When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.
Genesis 6:1‭-‬4 NRSV

The angels that rebelled in the time of Noah. The spirits in prison, imprisoned in gloomy darkness.

The Bible spells this all out very clearly. The sons of God are pointed to over and over and over again as divine beings.

So unless someone can address these passages, it's case closed.
in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19‭-‬20 NRSV

When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out from the earth the human beings I have created—people together with animals and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord.
Genesis 6:1‭-‬8 NRSV


What other spirits would be imprisoned, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, but for the sons of God? Jude and Peter explicitly say that they abandoned their place of proper dwelling, and engaged in sin, sexual immortality similar to that of Sodom and Gomorrah. In the times of Noah.
 
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