The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8

[Kokavkrystallos]

So let’s look at The Comma again with the Greek genders added.

• Relevant Masculine words will be colored Blue
• Relevant Feminine words will be colored Red
• Relevant Neuter words will be colored Purple.

Here we go.

1 John 5:6-9 KJV
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now, the genders all agree with The Comma included.

In verse 7 with The Comma, all the relevant words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ” (the testifying in the heaven) are masculine, matching “ὁ πατήρ” (the father) and “ὁ λόγος” (the Word) = no problem. The gender of the verbs match the genders of the related word, so it works.

(Sharp eyed readers will notice that “Holy Spirit” is in the neuter gender. This isn’t a problem because there are gender matching words and a conjunction between the verb and non-gender matching word.)

In verse 8 with The Comma, you have the masculine “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying) mated with the feminine “τη γη” (the earth). To answer a set of words that’s both masculine and feminine, you use a neuter. For an example: “he said ABC, she said XYZ; but they agreed on 123“. In that example, “they” is neuter, so it can answer both a feminine and masculine noun at the same time because of the neuter gender.

Now, without The Comma.

1 John 5:6-9 NASB
7 For there are three that testify:
8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Without The Comma, you have the neuter words “το πνευμα και το υδωρ και το αιμα” (the Spirit and the water and the blood) answering masculine words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying). You can’t have masculine answered by neuter. You can have both masculine and feminine answered by neuter, but not just masculine. That’s where the gender issue lies, and it’s a major no-no as we’ve seen.

****

Cyprian clearly quotes the Comma. He lived from 200 – 258, and so also predated Aruis and the Arian controversies.This is a crystal clear allusion to the Comma.

“The Lord says, “I and the Father are one; “ and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, “And these three are one.”
(Treatise I:6)

The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8: Added or Removed? - Berean Patriot

Of all the passages in the Bible, few have caused as much controversy as 1 John 5:7-8. There is a clause present in the KJV and a few other translations that most modern bibles don't include. This clause is so controversial, it even has it's own name: the "Johannine Comma". The question is this...

www.bereanpatriot.com

 

[Peacemaker1]

Lets remember the beginning of the chapter and not forget it or leave it out as if it has no relevance.

Belief in Jesus Christ that He is the Son of God, to love God because He begat us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to life.



1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


You said you liked preaching, here is some more.

The chapter has your focus, which is not a focus that saves us, as we are told there is only one focus for that.

The witness of God is better than mans witness/preaching, the record God gave of His Son, to believe on the Son of eternal life, as eternal life is in the Son of God, not in any other, to have the Son is to have life, to not have the Son of God is to NOT HAVE LIFE.



1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[Dan Perez]

So let’s look at The Comma again with the Greek genders added.

• Relevant Masculine words will be colored Blue
• Relevant Feminine words will be colored Red
• Relevant Neuter words will be colored Purple.

Here we go.




Now, the genders all agree with The Comma included.

In verse 7 with The Comma, all the relevant words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ” (the testifying in the heaven) are masculine, matching “ὁ πατήρ” (the father) and “ὁ λόγος” (the Word) = no problem. The gender of the verbs match the genders of the related word, so it works.

(Sharp eyed readers will notice that “Holy Spirit” is in the neuter gender. This isn’t a problem because there are gender matching words and a conjunction between the verb and non-gender matching word.)

In verse 8 with The Comma, you have the masculine “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying) mated with the feminine “τη γη” (the earth). To answer a set of words that’s both masculine and feminine, you use a neuter. For an example: “he said ABC, she said XYZ; but they agreed on 123“. In that example, “they” is neuter, so it can answer both a feminine and masculine noun at the same time because of the neuter gender.

Now, without The Comma.




Without The Comma, you have the neuter words “το πνευμα και το υδωρ και το αιμα” (the Spirit and the water and the blood) answering masculine words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying). You can’t have masculine answered by neuter. You can have both masculine and feminine answered by neuter, but not just masculine. That’s where the gender issue lies, and it’s a major no-no as we’ve seen.

****

Cyprian clearly quotes the Comma. He lived from 200 – 258, and so also predated Aruis and the Arian controversies.This is a crystal clear allusion to the Comma.

The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8: Added or Removed? - Berean Patriot

Of all the passages in the Bible, few have caused as much controversy as 1 John 5:7-8. There is a clause present in the KJV and a few other translations that most modern bibles don't include. This clause is so controversial, it even has it's own name: the "Johannine Comma". The question is this...

www.bereanpatriot.com

Question , did the original Greek text have punctuation and commas ?

dan p

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So let’s look at The Comma again with the Greek genders added.

• Relevant Masculine words will be colored Blue
• Relevant Feminine words will be colored Red
• Relevant Neuter words will be colored Purple.

Here we go.




Now, the genders all agree with The Comma included.

In verse 7 with The Comma, all the relevant words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ” (the testifying in the heaven) are masculine, matching “ὁ πατήρ” (the father) and “ὁ λόγος” (the Word) = no problem. The gender of the verbs match the genders of the related word, so it works.

(Sharp eyed readers will notice that “Holy Spirit” is in the neuter gender. This isn’t a problem because there are gender matching words and a conjunction between the verb and non-gender matching word.)

In verse 8 with The Comma, you have the masculine “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying) mated with the feminine “τη γη” (the earth). To answer a set of words that’s both masculine and feminine, you use a neuter. For an example: “he said ABC, she said XYZ; but they agreed on 123“. In that example, “they” is neuter, so it can answer both a feminine and masculine noun at the same time because of the neuter gender.

Now, without The Comma.




Without The Comma, you have the neuter words “το πνευμα και το υδωρ και το αιμα” (the Spirit and the water and the blood) answering masculine words “οἱ μαρτυροῦντες” (the testifying). You can’t have masculine answered by neuter. You can have both masculine and feminine answered by neuter, but not just masculine. That’s where the gender issue lies, and it’s a major no-no as we’ve seen.

****

Cyprian clearly quotes the Comma. He lived from 200 – 258, and so also predated Aruis and the Arian controversies.This is a crystal clear allusion to the Comma.

The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8: Added or Removed? - Berean Patriot

Of all the passages in the Bible, few have caused as much controversy as 1 John 5:7-8. There is a clause present in the KJV and a few other translations that most modern bibles don't include. This clause is so controversial, it even has it's own name: the "Johannine Comma". The question is this...

www.bereanpatriot.com

Nick Sayers spoke with one of the world’s leading Greek experts, who admitted that the Comma should be included in 1 John 5:7.
Check out my 4-page PDF on a Defense of the Comma (below), which addresses the point on the Greek grammar, along with other key reasons.

Note: Click on the image below to view.



Oh, and please keep in mind that it is not meant to be exhaustive defense of the Comma but I do provide a few really good points. I included videos and an academic research PDF on the Comma as must see sources. Some links I am planning to add later to the PDF. It is still a work in progress. It is a part of a larger write-up on defending the Bible and its accuracy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Question , did the original Greek text have punctuation and commas ?

dan p

He is not referring to punctuation.

He is referring to the Johannine Comma, which is the reading in 1 John 5:7 as found in Textus Receptus Bibles.

Here is the Comma:

1 John 5:7 (LITV) (Green's Literal)
""For there are three bearing witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

1 John 5:7 (KJV)
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

1 John 5:7 (WBT) (Websters Bible Translation)
"For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one."

Alexandrian manuscript Bibles (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus) remove the Comma. Hence, why most Modern English Bibles do not have it, seeing they are based primarily on the Alexandrian manuscripts (i.e., the minority of manuscripts).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@jacks

Thanks for rep. Check out my PDF above on the Comma. You may find it informative.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Nick Sayers spoke with one of the world’s leading Greek experts, who admitted that the Comma should be included in 1 John 5:7.
Check out my 4-page PDF on a Defense of the Comma (below), which addresses the point on the Greek grammar, along with other key reasons.

Note: Click on the image below to view.



Oh, and please keep in mind that it is not meant to be exhaustive defense of the Comma but I do provide a few really good points. I included videos and an academic research PDF on the Comma as must see sources. Some links I am planning to add later to the PDF. It is still a work in progress. It is a part of a larger write-up on defending the Bible and its accuracy.

Excellent material there. For those who argue the manuscripts without the comma are the "most reliable," this should be sufficient.
Yet, sadly, I see so many folk refuse to use any Bible besides the ones without it.
Not only do such Bibles deny this solid trinity verse, but most of them call "Lucifer" (Helel Ben Shachar) the Morning Star or Day Star, in Isaiah 14:12 . These titles belong to Jesus, not Satan. (Rev. 22:16, 2 Peter 1:19)
This is strait blasphemy.
The Hebrew word for star is Kokab or kokav, depending on how you pronounce the last letter which can have a B or a V sound. That word is not found in the original Hebrew in Isaiah 14:12. The Hebrew word for day is Yom. It is not found in the verse. Shachar does mean morning or dawn, but Helel's root word is praise.
I absolutely cringe and feel grieved when I hear the verse refer to Satan by those titles reserved for our blessed Saviour!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Excellent material there. For those who argue the manuscripts without the comma are the "most reliable," this should be sufficient.

Thank you. I am glad you guys like the PDF. Make sure you check out all the videos. They are really awesome; Especially the ones on the early church fathers with Mike Holner, and Mike Fernando. Just click on the videos in the PDF and they will open in YouTube.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

....most of them call "Lucifer" (Helel Ben Shachar) the Morning Star or Day Star, in Isaiah 14:12 . These titles belong to Jesus, not Satan. (Rev. 22:16, 2 Peter 1:19)
This is strait blasphemy.
The Hebrew word for star is Kokab or kokav, depending on how you pronounce the last letter which can have a B or a V sound. That word is not found in the original Hebrew in Isaiah 14:12. The Hebrew word for day is Yom. It is not found in the verse. Shachar does mean morning or dawn, but Helel's root word is praise.
I absolutely cringe and feel grieved when I hear the verse refer to Satan by those titles reserved for our blessed Saviour!

For the most part, I agree. Overall, well said, brother.

Here is my one page writeup on this (if you are interested).



Side Note:

Again, this is part of a larger write up in defense of the accuracy and perfection of the Bible.
I have 150 Reasons for the accuracy and perfection of God's Word. I am busy working on the sub articles currently.
I am hoping by February or March to have it finished (Lord willing). It will be a free PDF write-up for all people.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A recent discovery sheds new light on the Comma Johanneum. It is the La Cava Bible, a 9th-century codex that is a copy of an earlier manuscript. This codex includes a commentary referencing Arius as if he were still alive by telling him to read the Comma.

Read the full article here:

I John 5:7 and the 1st Century Latin/Spain Connection!!!

This mini dissertation is dedicated as a memorial service to our 460 brothers in Christ and many others who went before us, now in heaven as a ‘great cloud of witnesses’ (Heb 12:1), many of whom suffered, bled, had their...

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