Website (SDA?) Accuses Roman Catholics of Deleting Words from the Ten Commandments

[Dale]

The site appears to follow SDA beliefs, even cites one independent SDA ministry here, so my own assessment is that it is most likely owned and maintained by an SDA member, outside of the purview of the SDA church. None of the links on the website that I can find point to official SDA websites.

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It is true, the commandments aren't numbered in the Bible, but most denominations agree on numbering. Numbering is beside the point in the grand scheme of things, but it helps keep the commandments organized.

As for Catholic changes to the Ten Commandments, one only need look at the following and come to their own conclusions:

• Catholic Catechism (search for "Ten Commandments")
• Ten Commandments: Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
• Ten Commandments: New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
  
• Ten Commandments: King James Version

What scripture says:

Revelation 22:18-19 KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
​

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​

My observations:

​

While the Ten Commandment verbiage is largely maintained in the first bullet point of each commandment listed in the Catechism, it's in the subsequent bullet points where the Catholic church takes liberties with the Ten Commandments, adding to them and taking away from them.

• Graven images:
  • The absorbing of the second commandment into the first, creating a vacancy in the commandment structure.
    
  • The allowing of icons of Jesus, Mary, the angels and the saints, despite the language in the commandment.
• Sabbath:
  • Acknowledging the seventh day sabbath's sacredness, but instituting Sunday as the day of worship, calling it "The Lord's Day". The taking away of the seventh day Sabbath as God's day of worship.
  • This link isn't required as the Sabbath link suffices, but it furthers the point and shows a contradiction. The Catholic Encyclopedia Vol 4, page 153 (right page, upper right): "The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third [actually, it's the fourth] Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. [And the juxtaposition:] The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians."
• Coveting:
  • Splitting the covet commandment into two (1:I, II, BRIEF and 2:I, II, III, IV, BRIEF) to make up the loss of the second commandment.

The Catechism still shows the "Traditional Catechetical Formula" here.

ETA: Numbering aside, deviating from the Ten Commandments, or outright contradicting them, is not the will of God.

Freth: << As for Catholic changes to the Ten Commandments, one only need look at the following and come to their own conclusions:

• Catholic Catechism (search for "Ten Commandments")
• Ten Commandments: Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

Ten Commandments: New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition >>



Let’s be clear about one thing. The “Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition” does not mean that the RCC revised the Bible to their own liking. The Revised Standard Version originated in the United States and it is a Protestant project.

From the Protestant Encyclopedia, Hans J. Hillerbrand, Ed.

Under Bible, p. 367 pdf:

“From 1946 to 1953, an American group of translators [Protestants] produced the Revised Standard Version (RSV) of the Bible. This translation took into account new manuscript discoveries and was the most faithful to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Old and New Testaments.”

Under National Association of Evangelicals, p. 2511 of the pdf:

“Although popular among elements of conservative Protestantism, scholars have pointed out how closely it [the NIV] resembles in textual, exegetical and stylistic matters the Revised Standard Version that it was supposed to supplant.”

The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition is simply the RSV with notes approved by the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Dale]

From the same website cited in the OP:

“We also trust the example of Jesus and Paul who always kept the Sabbath.”


This is false or highly misleading. It is entirely possible that Jesus observed the Sabbath as a day of rest, when the community He lived in observed it, in accord with the Sabbath commandment. Nothing in the Ten Commandments says anything about Synagogue attendance; the Synagogue hadn’t been invented yet. The Gospels mention a few occasions that Jesus attended a Synagogue meeting. They do not tell us whether Jesus regularly went to these meetings. Given the endless arguments between Jesus and the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, and His warning to “beware the leaven of the Pharisees,” it is possible that He did not.

During His ministry, it is possible that the disciples regarded Jesus as their Rabbi, and that they conducted their own service. It would probably have been an outdoor service.

The Sabatarians expect us to believe that Jesus went to Synagogue and further, they assume that this puts His stamp of approval on Saturday worship. This isn’t true at all. Jesus made no statement on the day of worship, or at least the Gospels do not record one. When He did go to Synagogue, Jesus went to the meeting on the day it was held, which proves nothing.

What was the system for setting the Sabbath day and so the day of meeting for the Synagogue at the time of Christ? A committee of the Sanhedrin heard witnesses and declared that the New Moon had been observed, starting a new month. Sabbaths were calculated by counting days from the beginning of the month, not from the previous Sabbath. If Jesus did attend Synagogue and put His stamp of approval on Sabbath worship under that system, we are not under that system.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

From the same website cited in the OP:

“We also trust the example of Jesus and Paul who always kept the Sabbath.”


This is false or highly misleading. It is entirely possible that Jesus observed the Sabbath as a day of rest, when the community He lived in observed it, in accord with the Sabbath commandment. Nothing in the Ten Commandments says anything about Synagogue attendance; the Synagogue hadn’t been invented yet. The Gospels mention a few occasions that Jesus attended a Synagogue meeting. They do not tell us whether Jesus regularly went to these meetings. Given the endless arguments between Jesus and the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, and His warning to “beware the leaven of the Pharisees,” it is possible that He did not.

During His ministry, it is possible that the disciples regarded Jesus as their Rabbi, and that they conducted their own service. It would probably have been an outdoor service.

The Sabatarians expect us to believe that Jesus went to Synagogue and further, they assume that this puts His stamp of approval on Saturday worship. This isn’t true at all. Jesus made no statement on the day of worship, or at least the Gospels do not record one. When He did go to Synagogue, Jesus went to the meeting on the day it was held, which proves nothing.

What was the system for setting the Sabbath day and so the day of meeting for the Synagogue at the time of Christ? A committee of the Sanhedrin heard witnesses and declared that the New Moon had been observed, starting a new month. Sabbaths were calculated by counting days from the beginning of the month, not from the previous Sabbath. If Jesus did attend Synagogue and put His stamp of approval on Sabbath worship under that system, we are not under that system.

Are words like “Holy” Sacred” “Blessed” ‘Hallow” “Sanctified” not worthy of worship? What about a day God deemed to do all our work and labor- are those descriptions a more appropriate day of worship? Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20 8-11

If you read the 170+ verses in the Bible about Sabbath and the Holiness around it, using our God given common sense the Sabbath is God’s Holy day and worthy of worship and it is to this day for millions of people. God says He changes not, which is why on the New Earth we will worship Him not on the man-made first day but on His Holy seventh day Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Sunday church was something the Roman Catholic Church created, not Jesus or God and they proudly take credit for that change:

Here are a few quotes, there are many more...

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174


Going to church on Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic Church, not God that Jesus warns us about. Mathew 15 8-9.

God bless

 

[BobRyan]

From the same website cited in the OP:
“We also trust the example of Jesus and Paul who always kept the Sabbath.”

This is false or highly misleading.

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" they gathered for more of Paul's gospel preaching given to both believing and unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.

It is entirely possible that Jesus observed the Sabbath as a day of rest,

Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

Nothing in the Ten Commandments says anything about Synagogue attendance;

It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3

"the Synagogue hadn’t been invented yet."

Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.

The Gospels mention a few occasions that Jesus attended a Synagogue meeting. They do not tell us whether Jesus regularly went to these meetings.

"According to His custom" is what the Gospels say about Christ in the Synagogue on Sabbath

Luke 4:16 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read

Given the endless arguments between Jesus and the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, and His warning to “beware the leaven of the Pharisees,” it is possible that He did not.

depends on whether you feel comfortable taking the side of his false accusers.

 

[Dale]

Are words like “Holy” Sacred” “Blessed” ‘Hallow” “Sanctified” not worthy of worship? What about a day God deemed to do all our work and labor- are those descriptions a more appropriate day of worship? Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20 8-11

If you read the 170+ verses in the Bible about Sabbath and the Holiness around it, using our God given common sense the Sabbath is God’s Holy day and worthy of worship and it is to this day for millions of people. God says He changes not, which is why on the New Earth we will worship Him not on the man-made first day but on His Holy seventh day Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Sunday church was something the Roman Catholic Church created, not Jesus or God and they proudly take credit for that change:

Here are a few quotes, there are many more...

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174


Going to church on Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic Church, not God that Jesus warns us about. Mathew 15 8-9.

God bless

Imge: “Are words like “Holy” Sacred” “Blessed” ‘Hallow” “Sanctified” not worthy of worship?”

To worship a day would be idolatry, would it not?

Imge: “Sunday church was something the Roman Catholic Church created, not Jesus or God and they proudly take credit for that change:”

You provide three quotes and they are all completely false.

Let me try to explain something that you don’t seem to understand about the RCC. When Protestants refer to the Roman Catholic Church, they think of popes and assemblies of Bishops that happened hundreds of years after New Testament times. This is not how Catholics think of it. I know, I’m not Catholic either. To a Catholic, when Peter spoke at Pentecost, he was a Catholic. When Paul and the other Apostles went on their missionary journeys, he was a Catholic. When Catholic sources say that the Catholic Church “changed” the day of worship, they don’t necessarily mean that it was changed after the New Testament had been written. They don’t mean that it was changed hundreds of years later. In their minds, the Catholic Church began with Peter’s confession, when Jesus was still with us. Many of their statements don’t mean what you think they mean.

 

[Dale]

Are words like “Holy” Sacred” “Blessed” ‘Hallow” “Sanctified” not worthy of worship? What about a day God deemed to do all our work and labor- are those descriptions a more appropriate day of worship? Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20 8-11

If you read the 170+ verses in the Bible about Sabbath and the Holiness around it, using our God given common sense the Sabbath is God’s Holy day and worthy of worship and it is to this day for millions of people. God says He changes not, which is why on the New Earth we will worship Him not on the man-made first day but on His Holy seventh day Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Sunday church was something the Roman Catholic Church created, not Jesus or God and they proudly take credit for that change:

Here are a few quotes, there are many more...

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174


Going to church on Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic Church, not God that Jesus warns us about. Mathew 15 8-9.

God bless

Imge: “Going to church on Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic Church, not God that Jesus warns us about. Mathew 15 8-9.”

Jesus says no such thing in this passage, so you are deliberately misleading us. There is no mention of the day of worship in this passage. I’m getting tired of running down these absurd claims.

 

[Dale]

Are words like “Holy” Sacred” “Blessed” ‘Hallow” “Sanctified” not worthy of worship? What about a day God deemed to do all our work and labor- are those descriptions a more appropriate day of worship? Genesis 2:2-3 Exodus 20 8-11

If you read the 170+ verses in the Bible about Sabbath and the Holiness around it, using our God given common sense the Sabbath is God’s Holy day and worthy of worship and it is to this day for millions of people. God says He changes not, which is why on the New Earth we will worship Him not on the man-made first day but on His Holy seventh day Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Sunday church was something the Roman Catholic Church created, not Jesus or God and they proudly take credit for that change:

Here are a few quotes, there are many more...

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174


Going to church on Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic Church, not God that Jesus warns us about. Mathew 15 8-9.

God bless

Ellen White always claimed that one of the Popes “changed” the day of worship.

Very well. Which Pope made this change and when did this occur?

I don’t believe that you can answer this question.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ellen White always claimed that one of the Popes “changed” the day of worship.

Very well. Which Pope made this change and when did this occur?

I don’t believe that you can answer this question.

Considering God clearly spoke and wrote the seventh day is Gods Holy day, not the first day, we know the day was some how changed considering the majority of people go to church on the first day and not on God’s Holy seventh day Sabbath.

The Roman Catholic Church take full credit for this change. The Catholic Church even admits the change was not made by any scriptural authority.

Just a few quotes:

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
—Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

Of course these two old quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame – for the change.
—This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997

Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

That’s the thing many don’t realize, when they go to church on Sunday they are obeying a commandment of the Catholic Church, not the commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11 and Jesus warns us about obeying commitments of man Mathew 15 8-9

 

[Freedm]

“Since having a denominational name gives Satan something to attack and many Christians have the tendency to judge truth by denomination rather than the Word of God, we have chosen not to reveal denomination.”

They refuse to tell us who they are.

I don't blame them. They are exactly right about people judging based on denomination. Many Christians will immediately consider false (or at least dubious) anything taught by a seventh day adventist, jehovah's witness or mormon not because of what they're teaching but because of who they are. And the fact that you insist on finding a label for the author (SDA) tells me that you too place too much emphasis on denomination.

 

[Dale]

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" they gathered for more of Paul's gospel preaching given to both believing and unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.



Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2



It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3




Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.



"According to His custom" is what the Gospels say about Christ in the Synagogue on Sabbath

Luke 4:16 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read



depends on whether you feel comfortable taking the side of his false accusers.

Do the SDA have courses on how to always miss the crucial point? That’s what you’re doing here.

Bob Ryan: “It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3”

The Holy convocation applies to three festivals held on sabbaths at different times of year. It did not mean a weekly sabbath.

Bob Ryan: “Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.”

There were no synagogues when the Ten Commandments were given at Mt. Sinai. Since synagogues didn’t exist then, the sabbath commandment is not a command to attend synagogue. As I have pointed out in the past, nowhere in the Old Testament are the Levite priests commanded to teach on the sabbath. There are passages where they are commanded to teach, just not on the sabbath. The implication is that they rested on the sabbath and taught at other times.

Link
Levitical Priests Never Commanded to Teach on the Sabbath

Bob, you quote Luke 4:16 on Jesus reading scripture in the synagogue at Nazareth. The crowd becomes angry and tries to kill him in the same passage. Jesus certainly never went back to that synagogue. Perhaps it ended His custom of attending synagogue.

Bob, you quote Acts 20:20-24, ending with someone giving some advice to Paul. If you keep reading, Paul is accused of teaching against the Jews (verse 28) and dragged from the Temple (verse 30). In verses 31-35, Paul is rescued from a mob by Roman soldiers. In verse 25, those advising Paul repeat the conditions for Gentiles to become Christians, decided in Acts 15, and sabbath observance is not one of the conditions. In verse 24, those advising Paul tell him to do something to remind people that he does keep some Jewish laws and customs some of the time. He does take their advice but it apparently isn’t enough for his critics. The thrust of the passage doesn’t uphold the notion that Paul observes the Jewish sabbath himself and even less that he requires Gentile Christians to do so.


Bob Ryan: “The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.”

Where did you get the phrase “known for Sabbath breaking”? I didn’t use it.


Bob Ryan: << Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law. >>

Have you read the Epistle to the Galatians lately? It is the harshest of the Epistles and it is aimed directly at Judaizers. At one point Paul tells the Galatians that they are “foolish” to go back to the Jewish Law when they are already in the fullness of Christ. It’s hard to believe you’ve read Galatians when you cite it in favor of following the Jewish sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

From the same website cited in the OP:
“We also trust the example of Jesus and Paul who always kept the Sabbath.”

This is false or highly misleading.

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" they gathered for more of Paul's gospel preaching given to both believing and unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.

So now a post that ignores the point entirely ...

Do the SDA have courses on how to always miss the crucial point? That’s what you’re doing here.

Bob Ryan: “It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3”

The Holy convocation applies to three festivals

1. Is this your way of addressing your suggestion that neither Paul nor Christ regularly kept the 4th commandment? If so you lost me.

2. It is false to say that there was only three annual feasts that were "holy convocation". But I don't see how this helps you.. since the weekly Sabbath was also a day of holy convocation Lev 23:3.

Lev 23
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

It did not mean a weekly sabbath.

read the text.

Bob Ryan: “Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.”

There were no synagogues when the Ten Commandments were given at Mt. Sinai. Since synagogues didn’t exist then, the sabbath commandment is not a command to attend synagogue.

It commands holy convocation... read the text.

And it does so for all eternity after the cross as well.

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship".

The point remains.

Bob, you quote Luke 4:16 on Jesus reading scripture in the synagogue at Nazareth.

as was His custom. That refutes your speculation that the NT text does not show Jesus regularly keeping Sabbath.

the point remains.

The crowd becomes angry and tries to kill him in the same passage. Jesus certainly never went back to that synagogue.

Does not matter if they choose to reject Christ -- the text does not say it was their custom to reject Christ and drive him out.. .it says it was HIS custom to teach in the Synagogue on Sabbath.

the point remains.

Perhaps it ended His custom of attending synagogue.

Perhaps you are reaching for straws since the gospels show him in the synagogues many times - not just in Luke 4.

Bible details matter.

Bob, you quote Acts 20:20-24, ending with someone giving some advice to Paul. If you keep reading, Paul is accused of teaching against the Jews (verse 28) and dragged from the Temple (verse 30).

The text tells us it was Paul's custom to attend synagogue in fact Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath"

the point remains.

The fact that someone eventually persecutes Paul does not change that fact.

Bible details matter.

Paul repeat the conditions for Gentiles to become Christians, decided in Acts 15, and sabbath observance is not one of the conditions.

Paul never tells them to ignore scripture and never tells them "do not take God's name in vain".

Using that text to delete the Ten Commandments does not work. Paul reminds them in Eph 5:1-2 of a commandment not listed in Acts 15 just as he does no Romans 7.

Bible details matter.

The thrust of the passage doesn’t uphold the notion that Paul ignored the Sabbath or was trying to abolish any of the TEN

Paul points out in Eph 6:1-2 that the specific unit of TEN is the one that all Chrstians keep where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment.

A Bible detail so obvious scholars in almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth today - admit to it.

===========

So "yes" we have these statements about Christ's custom to be in the synagogue reading scripture on God's Sabbath and we have Paul's custom to be in the Synagogue every every Sabbath -

What we don't have is "we meet every week day 1 for worship as is our custom"
What we don't have is "we call week-day-1 the Lord's day as is our custom"
What we don't have is "we replace Sabbath with week-day-1 as is our custom"

or any such thing.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabatarians expect us to believe that Jesus went to Synagogue and further, they assume that this puts His stamp of approval on Saturday worship. This isn’t true at all. Jesus made no statement on the day of worship,

1. Jesus never said "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 does. But in Matt 5 Jesus specifically said not to teach that he was going around abolishing the Law of God.

2. It was already pointed out that your statement that Jesus showed no regular Sabbath attendance was a false statement -

3. Jesus said to "keep the Commandments" in Matt 19 when asked "Which ones" He does not list "Love God with all your heart" He does not list "do not worship idols" and He does not list "do not take God's name in vain". The game of arguing from silence to make it appear that Jesus was deleting commandments does not actually work.

 

[BobRyan]

What was the system for setting the Sabbath day and so the day of meeting for the Synagogue at the time of Christ? A committee of the Sanhedrin heard witnesses and declared that the New Moon had been observed, starting a new month. Sabbaths were calculated by counting days from the beginning of the month,

false

Sabbaths were counted from the first day of the week to the 7th as they still are today by both Jews and Sabbath keeping Christians. New moon had nothing to do with it - and still has nothing to do with it.

Not only do Orthodox Jews and Catholics know this basic Bible fact - so also does this show up in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith"

 

[Dale]

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" they gathered for more of Paul's gospel preaching given to both believing and unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.



Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2



It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3




Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.



"According to His custom" is what the Gospels say about Christ in the Synagogue on Sabbath

Luke 4:16 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read



depends on whether you feel comfortable taking the side of his false accusers.

Bob Ryan: “It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3”

I notice that you quote Leviticus. This central book of the Law also says:

Le. 19:1: The LORD said to Moses ...

“‘Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your
neighbour frankly so that you will not share in his guilt.
“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your
people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:17-18 NIV

“… Love your neighbor as yourself.” I’m not hearing that from SDA’s.

 

[Dale]

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" they gathered for more of Paul's gospel preaching given to both believing and unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to abandon Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 So what is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore, do as we tell you: we have four men who have a vow upon themselves; 24 take them along and purify yourself together with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and then everyone will know that there is nothing to what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also conform, keeping the Law.

The idea that this is how the Bible says "known for Sabbath breaking" is a bit extreme.



Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2



It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3




Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.



"According to His custom" is what the Gospels say about Christ in the Synagogue on Sabbath

Luke 4:16 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read



depends on whether you feel comfortable taking the side of his false accusers.

Bob Ryan: “Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2”


Do ever get tired of misquoting the Bible? Have you not absorbed the lesson that there are NO NUMBERS to Commandments in the Bible? Paul did not say say that anything was the “fifth commandment.” Here is what Paul did say:



Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
“Honour your father and mother” — which is the first
commandment with a promise —
“that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life
on the earth.” [Deut. 5:16]
Ephesians 6:1-3 NIV

I’ve checked the KJV and there is no “fifth commandment” there either.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2
.

To be exact with that "Sin is Transgression of the LAW" detail where that LAW specifically includes THE TEN.

We have this "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),"

And now.. a small side issue to avoid the point being made where Eph 6 specifically is singling out the TEN ...

Have you not absorbed the lesson that there are NO NUMBERS to Commandments in the Bible?

We all know that referencing the number is a shorthand for the commandment itself.. did you have a bigger issue with my post or is that it?

Here is what Paul did say:
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
“Honour your father and mother” — which is the first
commandment with a promise —
“that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life
on the earth.”

Are you "almost" ready to address the point of the post you say you are responding to... yet?

 

[BobRyan]

It is entirely possible that Jesus observed the Sabbath as a day of rest,

Especially given Gal 4
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that law includes the TEN that have "the fifth commandment as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2

Nothing in the Ten Commandments says anything about Synagogue attendance;

It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3

"the Synagogue hadn’t been invented yet."

Synagogues existed in the days of Christ and of Paul.

The Gospels mention a few occasions that Jesus attended a Synagogue meeting. They do not tell us whether Jesus regularly went to these meetings.

"According to His custom" is what the Gospels say about Christ in the Synagogue on Sabbath

Luke 4:16 16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read

Given the endless arguments between Jesus and the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, and His warning to “beware the leaven of the Pharisees,” it is possible that He did not.

depends on whether you feel comfortable taking the side of his false accusers.

Bob Ryan: “It is a day of "Holy convocation" Lev 23:3”

I appreciate that you are now picking up on that. Thanks.

So we can move on??

I notice that you quote Leviticus. This central book of the Law also says:

Le. 19:1: The LORD said to Moses ...

“‘Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your
neighbour frankly so that you will not share in his guilt.
“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your
people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:17-18 NIV

“… Love your neighbor as yourself.” I’m not hearing that from SDA’s.

Because you are not reading the the "Sabbath and the Law" forum under General Theology .. where we are quoting it all the time.

Aside from the bazzillion times I reference "Love your neighbor as yourself" as Lev 19:18 - (example -Jan 6, 2021 #3 )
did you have a question or point to propose?

Or is that "please reference Lev 19:18 more" point what you would like to focus on - since I do it soooo many times over there on the "Sabbath and the Law" forum??

hint: do a thread search on user: BobRyan and "Lev 19:18"

 

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