we have no proofs about the existence of god

[Deadworm]

Greg: "Mount Rushmore, and footprints in the sand, as well as fingerprints are "proofs" that people have walked this planet."











Greg: "Mount Rushmore, and footprints in the sand, as well as fingerprints are "proofs" that people have walked this planet."

Last summer, I was part of a tour group that, among other places, visited the alleged Mount Rushmore. In Rapid City, we had been told that tourism to this mountain was a major reason for the rapid growth of their city. But when we arrived, no Mount Rushmore and no 4 presidents! We ate at the alleged mount's restaurant and waited a few hours until the evening show in the amphitheater, which promised to shine incredibly bright searchlights on the presidents. Well, the searchlights were turned on, and a cute park ranger with an Alvin the Chipmunk-type voice came out on the stage and shouted, "Well, did you see it?" About 700 of us shouted back: "Nooooo!" The fog completely obscured it. So when we returned to Rapid City, we told officials at our hotel that they thought Mount Rushmore was a myth invented by the city to promote tourism!

No, every philosopher knows that there is no proof for God's existence. Arguments for God are only as good as their assumptions, and our assumptions derive from our experience. So those who have experienced God's power are more inclined to embrace theistic-friendly assumptions. The rest experience the fog of skepticism and, not surprisingly, rationally infer that the God of Mount Rushmore has not been demonstrated.

Greg: "I disagree that we have no proofs that God exists!!! His "fingerprints" are "all over the place." Psalms 19:1 says "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork." Either the Bible is dependable or it is not; and it is."

You are confusing proof with intuitive discernment, which does not qualify as a rational argument. Others understandably view huge death tolls from epidemics, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and forest fires as evidence that there is no Intelligent Designer in control of creation. It is only because of my experience of God's grace and power that I embrace assumptions that make the case for God's existence seem plausible. But I recognize that those who have never had such experiences are quite plausibly agnostic about the case for God.

 

[Colter]

Jesus proved God through miracles BUT that was seen as evil by some, others brushed it off. Jesus proved that proof is overrated.

 

[Smylie]

You can’t have proof of nonexistence of anything so that’s bit absurd.

Exactly, so they have no proof.

 

[Antig]

True belief in God needs no proof. Only faith.

 

[Favourofone]

Exactly, so they have no proof.

Just as you have no proof of goblins or unicorns nonexistence.

It doesn’t mean they do exist just because you have no proof they don’t.

It is not hard concept to grasp.

 

[dqhall]

maybe spiritual proofs but not material proofs that unbelievers want

John 1:5 And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

If you search, you might find the testimony of Christians whose lives have been changed by Christ.
Paul was blinded on the road to Damascus. Paul sensed Christ's voice accusing himself. Paul could not deny God existed. Paul quit his business of arresting Christians. After Paul miraculously received his sight, he accepted a calling to share his witness with others, risking his own life for the truth.

 

[JoeP222w]

God is not on trial in the blasphemous courtroom of rebel sinners.



Romans 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (19) For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. (20) For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (21) For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (22) Claiming to be wise, they became fools, (23) and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. (24) Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, (25) because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

 

[fat wee robin]

I am teaching through the book of Hebrews at my church currently, and have covered Hebrews 11:17. Of course Abraham had Ishmael and Isaac as sons. That was so well known that to make a mistake regarding He 11:17, especially when the inspiration of the H.S. makes no mistakes, is ridiculous. He 11:17 is accurate, so what is the explanation? First 1 Corinthians 2:14, then this> Isaac is the only begotten son "of promise". The promise comes through only "one" son, Isaac. Oh how I love the wisdom of God over the foolishness of man. Regarding "inspiration" of explanations, only the Scriptures are "inspired", but that doesn't mean that we only have the brain of a billy goat, and can't use what God did give us to rightly understand and teach (God-given gift of teaching, Eph 4:11) what His Word truly means.

This is not off the subject as you will see . Who wrote Hebrews ?

 

[fat wee robin]

Jesus proved God through miracles BUT that was seen as evil by some, others brushed it off. Jesus proved that proof is overrated.

Not so ,but He wants people to know Him in Spirit and love first ,as only the heart cannot lie ,the mind can
be devious unless led by the Spirit .
When you are of God ,and love Him and search for Him honestly ,then you will have the miracle of absolute proof .For each person it will be subtly different ,but absolute . A miracle !!

 

[Greg Merrill]

This is not off the subject as you will see . Who wrote Hebrews ?

It is not absolutely sure who God moved by His perfect inspiration to have write
His perfect word down, a number of people being suggested, Paul most favorably, but it is still God's word, not any man's, no matter who God used as His scribe.

 

[fat wee robin]

True belief in God needs no proof. Only faith.

We are different ,and need different things at each stage of developement .As a younster ,I loved and had a relationship with Jesus .
As I grew the Church did not either answer my questions ,or those of others , and often behaved badly ,so that I drifted and found those who were willing to talk freely of things intellectual . Mostly non believing university folk .
Often Christians have been so ignorant and narrow they have stifled minds ,while God does not do that . They have made the mistake of thinking that God does not want us to study science and much more ,and that we must only 'believe' without any proof .
Not so ,but as has been stated, what He really means is that for some ,including christians, the truth is not available to them .Witness those who still believe the whole of creation is only about 6000 yrs old , or that the earth is flat .
So you see we need to study ,and keep proving .As I said we are all at different levels, and some are in the business of proving to Advanced intellects ,and need to give proof, that is not questionable .

 

[fat wee robin]

True belief in God needs no proof. Only faith.

We are different ,and need different things at each stage of developement .As a younster ,I loved and had a relationship with Jesus .
As I grew the Church did not either answer my questions ,or those of others , and often behaved badly ,so that I drifted and found those who were willing to talk freely of things intellectual . Mostly non believing university folk .
Often Christians have been so ignorant and narrow they have stifled minds ,while God does not do that . They have made the mistake of thinking that God does not want us to study science and much more ,and that we must only 'believe' without any proof .
Not so ,but as has been stated, what He really means is that for some ,including christians, the truth is not available to them .Witness those who still believe the whole of creation is only about 6000 yrs old , or that the earth is flat .
So you see we need to study ,and keep proving .As I said we are all at different levels, and some are in the business of proving to Advanced intellects ,and need to give proof, that is not questionable .

 

[dcalling]

easily somebody could say the same about the koran, or say that satan wrote the bible, what proof the satanist has? none, what proof we christians have? none, only our faith, there lies our grace, not in much reasoning

That is where you have to do research. I did research on Quran (and earlier I was from Buddhism background), and the one thing that made me sure they got it wrong is, in the Quran, there are verses (i.e. 5:43 and 47 for example) that clearly shows Jews and Christians should be judged by Torah and Gospel, and that the Gospel and Torah are good and usable, and yet if you ask most Muslims (except Bahai), they will tell you the Gospel and Torah are corrupted and lost, because none of them can reconcile the 3.

I agree more should be focused on grace, but logic/reasoning is also a powerful tool for us layman to use.

 

[Greg Merrill]

We are different ,and need different things at each stage of developement .As a younster ,I loved and had a relationship with Jesus .
As I grew the Church did not either answer my questions ,or those of others , and often behaved badly ,so that I drifted and found those who were willing to talk freely of things intellectual . Mostly non believing university folk .
Often Christians have been so ignorant and narrow they have stifled minds ,while God does not do that . They have made the mistake of thinking that God does not want us to study science and much more ,and that we must only 'believe' without any proof .
Not so ,but as has been stated, what He really means is that for some ,including christians, the truth is not available to them .Witness those who still believe the whole of creation is only about 6000 yrs old , or that the earth is flat .
So you see we need to study ,and keep proving .As I said we are all at different levels, and some are in the business of proving to Advanced intellects ,and need to give proof, that is not questionable .

What do you mean by "the Church"? There are lots of denominations and lots of local churches representing those denominations. They don't all teach the same or conduct themselves the same. To attribute something to "the Church" is not clear to your readers. I believe creation is only about 6,000 yrs old, as do a lot of scientists that are Christians. Those that use modern versions of the Bible will say probably 10,000 yrs old. Those that believe in millions/billions of years are following the false teachings of non-Christian scientists using faulty methods and faulty thinking of the false theory of evolution.

 

[fat wee robin]

It is not absolutely sure who God moved by His perfect inspiration to have write
His perfect word down, a number of people being suggested, Paul most favorably, but it is still God's word, not any man's, no matter who God used as His scribe.

So you see already we are questioning certain aspects of the bible . Those who say we need no proof .This only works for a while .This lack of proof as in love and believe, cannot easily be transmitted to others ,so we have to continue finding God in All
that is beautiful kind , lightfilled ,creative and ordered .
When a society moves far enough away from God it starts to fail ,become darker ,etc. Because unwise people think only in the moment they do not see the signs of longer term decay ,a sense of doom until they are caught up in it .
That is why knowing history is so important ,giving a long view .
And one more word . No problem with the bible ,but different people see different things , I know I do ,especially in Hebrews .

 

[chirpyluna]

Yep. No offense to the OP, but technically I see threads like this one to be trolling.

I get that, but I'm more of an optimist. I would like to think that someone taking the time to challenge believers is a good thing. I remember challenging believers, more recently than I'd like to admit actually, to tell me or show me proof that God exists. In my case, in retrospect, it was more of a cry for help. It was more, "PLEASE prove to me that he's really there," than it was, "Oh yeah? God huh? Prove it!"

 

[Favourofone]

It is not absolutely sure who God moved by His perfect inspiration to have write
His perfect word down, a number of people being suggested, Paul most favorably, but it is still God's word, not any man's, no matter who God used as His scribe.

You would think that with all those perfects we would have just one perfect version of the Bible that was unchanging, that everybody could read in one language , with only one author the God without unknown middlemen and no other holy books floating around making similiar claims that billions of other people believe in.

The current mess seems less than perfect ?

 

[Greg Merrill]

That is where you have to do research. I did research on Quran (and earlier I was from Buddhism background), and the one thing that made me sure they got it wrong is, in the Quran, there are verses (i.e. 5:43 and 47 for example) that clearly shows Jews and Christians should be judged by Torah and Gospel, and that the Gospel and Torah are good and usable, and yet if you ask most Muslims (except Bahai), they will tell you the Gospel and Torah are corrupted and lost, because none of them can reconcile the 3.

I agree more should be focused on grace, but logic/reasoning is also a powerful tool for us layman to use.

People "say" all kinds of things, whether from false religions, Satanists, etc.
We must consider the source. Is the Bible the Word of God or not? I am very convinced that it is. "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life..." Jn 14:6. I will stake my eternity on the words of Jesus, and the whole Word of God.

 

[Greg Merrill]

I get that, but I'm more of an optimist. I would like to think that someone taking the time to challenge believers is a good thing. I remember challenging believers, more recently than I'd like to admit actually, to tell me or show me proof that God exists. In my case, in retrospect, it was more of a cry for help. It was more, "PLEASE prove to me that he's really there," than it was, "Oh yeah? God huh? Prove it!"

I pray that you have or will come to that great peace of knowing by faith based on evidence that God exists and the Bible is His Word!!!

 

[Favourofone]

Is the Bible the Word of God or not? I am very convinced that it is.

Others are convinced by other Gods enough to fly airliners to skyscrapers for their bid of eternity.

I fear conviction as such is not any kind of proof either. You can be convinced of just about everything and still be wrong.

 

[fat wee robin]

What do you mean by "the Church"? There are lots of denominations and lots of local churches representing those denominations. They don't all teach the same or conduct themselves the same. To attribute something to "the Church" is not clear to your readers. I believe creation is only about 6,000 yrs old, as do a lot of scientists that are Christians. Those that use modern versions of the Bible will say probably 10,000 yrs old. Those that believe in millions/billions of years are following the false teachings of non-Christian scientists using faulty methods and faulty thinking of the false theory of evolution.

There we go You think that there are only the choices you have given , but there are others .

Frankly I have nothing to say to those who thinks that Creation is only 6000 yrs old .
No wonder there are among the Young, so many drifting away from this nonsense .