We Are Saved By Works

[Si_monfaith]

Countless people have fulfilled the Law, so fulfilling the law is not about making a payment to earn eternal life. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires, so the same grace and faith by which we are saved also leads us to fulfill the Law.

The question is not whether you can fulfill the law or not. Rather, the question is whether your fulfilment can earn eternal life.

Moreover by His grace God never counts sin. Romans 4: 8.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Countless people have fulfilled the Law, so fulfilling the law is not about making a payment to earn eternal life. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires, so the same grace and faith by which we are saved also leads us to fulfill the Law.

"Unfulfillable law" means the fulfilment by humans which could never fulfill the human need by earning eternal life.

Job's fulfilment couldn't protect his children from death.

 

[Soyeong]

"Unfulfillable law" means the fulfilment by humans which could never fulfill the human need by earning eternal life.

"To fulfill the Law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the Law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3). After Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law in Matthew 5, this is precisely what he then proceeded to do six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it. In Galatians 5:14, loving your neighbor fulfills the entire law, so it refers to obeying the Law as it should be obeyed, and refers to something countless people have done, not to something unique to Christ. Likewise, Galatians 6:2 says that bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, so you should interpret it in the same way as fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, namely obeying it as it should be. In Romans 15:18-19, it says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel, which again referred to causing Gentiles to become fully obedient to it in word and in deed.

Anyone can obey God's Law as it should be, so it is not unfulfillable. Fulfilling the Law does not earn eternal life because it was not given for that purpose.

 

[Si_monfaith]

"To fulfill the Law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the Law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3). After Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law in Matthew 5, this is precisely what he then proceeded to do six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it. In Galatians 5:14, loving your neighbor fulfills the entire law, so it refers to obeying the Law as it should be obeyed, and refers to something countless people have done, not to something unique to Christ. Likewise, Galatians 6:2 says that bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, so you should interpret it in the same way as fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, namely obeying it as it should be. In Romans 15:18-19, it says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel, which again referred to causing Gentiles to become fully obedient to it in word and in deed.

Anyone can obey God's Law as it should be, so it is not unfulfillable. Fulfilling the Law does not earn eternal life because it was not given for that purpose.

Under grace, being set free from the law (Romans 7:6), God never counts sin for His elect (Romans4:8).

 

[Danthemailman]

Jesus did add tell us that repentance is before belief.

Matthew 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Mark 1:15
And saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Also: Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order in all three verses. Repentance is before belief.

 

[Soyeong]

Under grace, being set free from the law (Romans 7:6),

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh. In Romans 7:6, Paul said that we were freed from a law that held us captive, which clearly fits with his description of the law of sin.

God never counts sin for His elect (Romans4:8).

In Romans 4:7, it says blessed or those who transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. So if you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so He does not hold them against us, then you would be correct. If you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so we don't need to refrain from doing what He has revealed to be sin, then you would be incorrect. In Romans 6:15, Paul said that being under grace didn't mean that we are permitted to sin, so we are free to do what God's Law reveals to be sin, and are therefore still required to obey it.

 

[Si_monfaith]

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh. In Romans 7:6, Paul said that we were freed from a law that held us captive, which clearly fits with his description of the law of sin.



In Romans 4:7, it says blessed or those who transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. So if you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so He does not hold them against us, then you would be correct. If you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so we don't need to refrain from doing what He has revealed to be sin, then you would be incorrect. In Romans 6:15, Paul said that being under grace didn't mean that we are permitted to sin, so we are free to do what God's Law reveals to be sin, and are therefore still required to obey it.

"We don't need to refrain"?

Repent and say, "not I but His grace does all works through me". 1 Corinthians 15:10.

 

[Si_monfaith]

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and which he served with his flesh. In Romans 7:6, Paul said that we were freed from a law that held us captive, which clearly fits with his description of the law of sin.



In Romans 4:7, it says blessed or those who transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. So if you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so He does not hold them against us, then you would be correct. If you are suggesting that God forgives our sins, so we don't need to refrain from doing what He has revealed to be sin, then you would be incorrect. In Romans 6:15, Paul said that being under grace didn't mean that we are permitted to sin, so we are free to do what God's Law reveals to be sin, and are therefore still required to obey it.

"We don't need to refrain".

Repent and say, "not I but His grace works through me". 1 Corinthians 15:10.

 

[EmSw]

Your mistake is to assume that the command ensures the ability. It doesn't. God commands all men everywhere to repent but only give the ability, by the new birth, to some. We must be born again in order to even see the Kingdom of God much less desire it unto repentance.

Another man-made belief. Jesus NEVER said we can't keep His commandments. It's not they can't keep them, it's they won't keep them.

 

[Soyeong]

"We don't need to refrain".

Repent and say, "not I but His grace works through me". 1 Corinthians 15:10.

To repent from our sins means to turn from them. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct how to do. Furthermore, it says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in Christ, then that should lead us to become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's Law (Acts 21:20).

 

[JM]

"...faith is dead, being by itself, that is, when destitute of good works. We hence conclude that it is indeed no faith, for when dead, it does not properly retain the name." John Calvin

 

[twin1954]

Another man-made belief. Jesus NEVER said we can't keep His commandments. It's not they can't keep them, it's they won't keep them.

A"man made" belief that is not only supported by Scripture, as you seem to ignore, but is totally Scriptural. Your arguments are circular, assuming something is true and then making arguments to support your assumption, which is a completely a fallacious way to argue. Moreover instead of actually making an argument to prove your claims you simply make statements that have no biblical support and which we are supposed to accept just because you make them.

And, for the record, Jesus did actually say that man couldn't in John 6:44 - 45. And again John very clearly tells us what it is to keep His commandments in 1John 3:22-24. You err not knowing the Scriptures.

 

[EmSw]

A"man made" belief that is not only supported by Scripture, as you seem to ignore, but is totally Scriptural. Your arguments are circular, assuming something is true and then making arguments to support your assumption, which is a completely a fallacious way to argue. Moreover instead of actually making an argument to prove your claims you simply make statements that have no biblical support and which we are supposed to accept just because you make them.

I have no bearing in whether you accept them or not.

If you can't come to Jesus, then you are a man most miserable. If you can't keep His commandments, then you substitute your own commandments, falsified by your own delights.

And, for the record, Jesus did actually say that man couldn't in John 6:44 - 45. And again John very clearly tells us what it is to keep His commandments in 1John 3:22-24. You err not knowing the Scriptures.

I'm surprised you don't know yourself what it is to keep His commandments. Keeping His commandments is much more than just believing. One would think a child's parents would have taught what it is to keep a command. He not only believes what his parents told him, but he DOES what his parents told him.

Jesus did not say a man couldn't come to Him. Every man comes freely from choice once God draws him. Just as each man freely from choice, chooses to believe Jesus and do what He says, when He said, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'.

 

[twin1954]

I have no bearing in whether you accept them or not.

If you can't come to Jesus, then you are a man most miserable. If you can't keep His commandments, then you substitute your own commandments, falsified by your own delights.

Exactly! We are most miserable because we not only can't come but we, by nature, do not want to come. That is why it takes an act of God in you and for you to be saved. It is all of God.

I'm surprised you don't know yourself what it is to keep His commandments. Keeping His commandments is much more than just believing. One would think a child's parents would have taught what it is to keep a command. He not only believes what his parents told him, but he DOES what his parents told him.

Jesus did not say a man couldn't come to Him. Every man comes freely from choice once God draws him. Just as each man freely from choice, chooses to believe Jesus and do what He says, when He said, 'if you want to enter life, keep the commandments'.

Again you err not knowing the Scriptures. You need to study the books of Romans and Galatians. You apparently have no idea of the whole purpose of the commandments. You could never keep them before and you can't keep them now. They are far too high for any of us to keep. If you think you can keep them you have destroyed the righteousness of the commandments by bringing them down to man's level.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem.

 

[twin1954]

IPad problem

 

[EmSw]

Exactly! We are most miserable because we not only can't come but we, by nature, do not want to come. That is why it takes an act of God in you and for you to be saved. It is all of God.

You're thinking in error. There are many who never had the attitude they did not want to come to God. Don't project your failures on others. In God's providence, He is always working to bring man to Himself; this includes all men everywhere.

Again you err not knowing the Scriptures. You need to study the books of Romans and Galatians. You apparently have no idea of the whole purpose of the commandments. You could never keep them before and you can't keep them now. They are far too high for any of us to keep. If you think you can keep them you have destroyed the righteousness of the commandments by bringing them down to man's level.

I do not need to study Romans and Galatians in order to know what Jesus said. I have His own words to follow.

If you can't keep His commandments, then are none of His. You have delight in what is your own. Since you can't keep them now, then you are necessarily a liar. You are a false witness. Since you can't love God, why should I think you desire to do what He says?

Listen to people long enough, and their true nature comes to light. They much rather love what is their own, rather than what is God's. Until you take up your own cross, deny yourself, and follow Him, you are not His; you are not worthy of Him.

 

[twin1954]

You're thinking in error. There are many who never had the attitude they did not want to come to God. Don't project your failures on others. In God's providence, He is always working to bring man to Himself; this includes all men everywhere.



I do not need to study Romans and Galatians in order to know what Jesus said. I have His own words to follow.

If you can't keep His commandments, then are none of His. You have delight in what is your own. Since you can't keep them now, then you are necessarily a liar. You are a false witness. Since you can't love God, why should I think you desire to do what He says?

Listen to people long enough, and their true nature comes to light. They much rather love what is their own, rather than what is God's. Until you take up your own cross, deny yourself, and follow Him, you are not His; you are not worthy of Him.

What, exactly, do you think Jesus actually did?

 

[EmSw]

What, exactly, do you think Jesus actually did?

When you can and do love Him, come back and we'll talk.