We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[Giver]

And I believe God gave me the means to own a Glock 23 that will get me out of many trials.

Yes and if you use it to hurt someone you are disobeying God.
(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

 

[Giver]

I asked you a question Giver about that scripture and what it means to you. Obviously you don't have an answer, so you fire back with nothing that has to do with the question I asked you. Once again, what does that scripture mean to you?

Yes and if you use it to hurt someone you are disobeying God.
God will always give us the strength to resist committing a sin. Disobeying God is a sin. (Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

He would never have us use any means that would go against his Word. My example of how he helped Paul I believe explains (1 Corinthians 10:13) “You can trust God not to let you be tried beyond your strength, and with any trial he will give you a way out of it and the strength to bear it.” Very well.

 

[Zecryphon]

Yes and if you use it to hurt someone you are disobeying God.
(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

Remember what Jesus said though? What you did for the least of these you did for me. It is perfectly logical for a Christian to take that principle of helping others in need and apply it here. There are only a few things that rank higher for a Christian than the protection of the innocent.

Now, we all know that when it comes to protecting others you will sit on your hands and wait for God to intervene and handle it for you. But what if God doesn't for whatever reason, intervene? What's that gonna do to your faith then? And what does that say about the people God didn't protect? I believe you've forgotten this verse:

1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

 

[Giver]

Remember what Jesus said though? What you did for the least of these you did for me. It is perfectly logical for a Christian to take that principle of helping others in need and apply it here. There are only a few things that rank higher for a Christian than the protection of the innocent.

Now, we all know that when it comes to protecting others you will sit on your hands and wait for God to intervene and handle it for you. But what if God doesn't for whatever reason, intervene? What's that gonna do to your faith then? And what does that say about the people God didn't protect? I believe you've forgotten this verse:

1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Don’t you wonder why the Christians didn’t stop those people who were stoning Steven?

Don’t you know that nothing good or bad can happen to you unless Jesus allows it to happen? If he knows when a feather falls out of a bird, I am sure he is well able to take care of us.

 

[Zecryphon]

Don’t you wonder why the Christians didn’t stop those people who were stoning Steven?

Don’t you know that nothing good or bad can happen to you unless Jesus allows it to happen? If he knows when a feather falls out of a bird, I am sure he is well able to take care of us.

"Don’t you wonder why the Christians didn’t stop those people who were stoning Steven?"

They were greatly outnumbered and outarmed? The same as any criminal who breaks into my home will be.

"Don’tyou know that nothing good or bad can happen to you unless Jesus allows it to happen? If he knows when a feather falls out of a bird, I am sure he is well able to take care of us."

So if someone is in my home and is intent on harming me, Jesus has allowed it? But you said earlier that God will never let us be put in such a situation. So which is it? You've spoken out of both sides of your mouth on this one.

 

[Giver]

They were greatly outnumbered and outarmed? The same as any criminal who breaks into my home will be.
There were over five thousand Christians there at the time I am sure if they thought like you they would have had the forces to protect Steven.





So if someone is in my home and is intent on harming me, Jesus has allowed it? But you said earlier that God will never let us be put in such a situation. So which is it? You've spoken out of both sides of your mouth on this one.

Another hypothetical situation, it is sad that you feel your life in this world is worth so much to you that to save it you would be willing to disobey God and harm another.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

(1 Corinthians 10:13) “You can trust God not to let you be tried beyond your strength, and with any trial he will give you a way out of it and the strength to bear it.”

You go ahead and create hypothetical situations, which seem to be impossible to live without disobeying God. God promised us he would not put us in such situations.

uh police officers go through theses kinds of situations every day. And they are doing their job, and God bless them for it.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Another hypothetical situation, it is sad that you feel your life in this world is worth so much to you that to save it you would be willing to disobey God and harm another.

It's sad to know that you follow your own ideas on this, instead of reading what the bible has to say. Name one place where God was angry at someone defending themselves or others from mortal danger.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

That verse had nothing to do with God not allowing someone to be killed or raped. It was in response to a hypothetical situation, which would tempt someone to disobey God. How you twisted that post around to say what you described is beyond me.

The only disobedience to God is by someone who stands there and lets harm come to the innocent. It's a coward hiding under the name of 'pacifism'.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Another hypothetical situation, it is sad that you feel your life in this world is worth so much to you that to save it you would be willing to disobey God and harm another.

It's funny that you are repeating the statement that harming another is an act of disobedience to God. Good thing we don't worship your god, then

John2

14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

 

[Giver]

It's funny that you are repeating the statement that harming another is an act of disobedience to God. Good thing we don't worship your god, then

John2

14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

You need to remember that Jesus is God and God is the Lawgiver and enforcer. We are to just obey. Remember the Word that Jesus gave will be our judge on the last day.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

You mean laws like this?
2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;

You need to remember that God uses people every second of every day. By your standards we are all to sit around and wait for the rapture. That's convenient.


And I didn't forget.

 

[Zecryphon]

Another hypothetical situation, it is sad that you feel your life in this world is worth so much to you that to save it you would be willing to disobey God and harm another.

"Another hypothetical situation,"

Um, no in this world that's what's known as a reality.

"it is sad that you feel your life in this world is worth so much to you that to save it you would be willing to disobey God and harm another."

Dude, you just don't get it. Go back to Jesus' arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane. Remember when Peter cut off the guard's ear? What did Jesus say to Peter? He told him to put away his sword, not to get rid of it. He told him to put it back in it's proper place at his side. He didn't tell him to lay down his weapon and never pick it up again, like you want everyone here to believe.

You have what? Three scriptures you're using to base your theology upon? In every instance where a weapon was present we never see Jesus telling anyone to get rid of them. You sir, are projecting your own ideals upon Jesus and expecting everybody else to just fall over and agree with you. When that doesn't happen you have resort to insinuations about how sad and pathetic other people are because they are not afraid to stand up to the evils of this world and protect all that God has given them. Face it, you're a coward and are hiding behind scriptures to justify your cowardice. You have no scripture where Jesus ever told anyone wielding a weapon to get rid of it and that's what you need.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

 

[Giver]

Um, no in this world that's what's known as a reality.



Dude, you just don't get it. Go back to Jesus' arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane. Remember when Peter cut off the guard's ear? What did Jesus say to Peter? He told him to put away his sword, not to get rid of it. He told him to put it back in it's proper place at his side. He didn't tell him to lay down his weapon and never pick it up again, like you want everyone here to believe.

You have what? Three scriptures you're using to base your theology upon? In every instance where a weapon was present we never see Jesus telling anyone to get rid of them. You sir, are projecting your own ideals upon Jesus and expecting everybody else to just fall over and agree with you. When that doesn't happen you have resort to insinuations about how sad and pathetic other people are because they are not afraid to stand up to the evils of this world and protect all that God has given them. Face it, you're a coward and are hiding behind scriptures to justify your cowardice. You have no scripture where Jesus ever told anyone wielding a weapon to get rid of it and that's what you need.

No but Jesus did say: (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” Remember something until Jesus ascended into heaven Jews were still under the Old Law.

 

[Giver]

John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Giving one’s life is a lot different than taking someone else’s life.

 

[Zecryphon]

No but Jesus did say: (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” Remember something until Jesus ascended into heaven Jews were still under the Old Law.

Here is the perfect scenario. The soldiers are coming to take Jesus away. Peter obviously sees this as a criminal act. Jesus, in Peter's mind, has done nothing to deserve this. So Peter acts defensively, he is defending against a coming threat. Peter cuts off the guard's ear. If Jesus is as pacifistic as you make Him out to be, He should have rebuked Peter up and down, He should have told him to get rid of his weapon and that he doesn't need that weapon at all to defend himself, because God will provide.

But we don't see that do we? No, we don't. We see Jesus telling him to put his weapon back at his side. Why? Because that's where a weapon on an unbeliever belongs, at his side, in easy reach, if a situation where it would be needed should arise. You are in agreement with what Jesus says here, yet you rail against Christians owning and using weapons of any kind. The reaction you need from Jesus to solidify your case for pacifism, is not present in the scriptures. We see Jesus telling people to buy weapons and keep them at their side, ready for use. I mean, why else would anyone have a sidearm? For decoration purposes? We don't see Him telling anyone who has a weapon to get rid of it, or lay it down if they do have one. You're dead in the water on this issue. Jesus isn't even in agreement with you here and yet you claim He's teaching you.

 

[Giver]

Here is the perfect scenario. The soldiers are coming to take Jesus away. Peter obviously sees this as a criminal act. Jesus, in Peter's mind, has done nothing to deserve this. So Peter acts defensively, he is defending against a coming threat. Peter cuts off the guard's ear. If Jesus is as pacifistic as you make Him out to be, He should have rebuked Peter up and down, He should have told him to get rid of his weapon and that he doesn't need that weapon at all to defend himself, because God will provide.

But we don't see that do we? No, we don't. We see Jesus telling him to put his weapon back at his side. Why? Because that's where a weapon on an unbeliever belongs, at his side, in easy reach, if a situation where it would be needed should arise. You are in agreement with what Jesus says here, yet you rail against Christians owning and using weapons of any kind. The reaction you need from Jesus to solidify your case for pacifism, is not present in the scriptures. We see Jesus telling people to buy weapons and keep them at their side, ready for use. I mean, why else would anyone have a sidearm? For decoration purposes? We don't see Him telling anyone who has a weapon to get rid of it, or lay it down if they do have one. You're dead in the water on this issue. Jesus isn't even in agreement with you here and yet you claim He's teaching you.

Come on now, even you have to smile at that one.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

No but Jesus did say: (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” Remember something until Jesus ascended into heaven Jews were still under the Old Law.

Let's look at that verse in a more literal translation.

Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Matt 26:52 NASB

 

[Zecryphon]

Come on now, even you have to smile at that one.

I'm not the one who is wrong here, you are. I've given you what is written in the scriptures and you either dodge what is presented or come back with things that aren't relevant. Face it, you don't have scriptural support for your position. You do not have scriptures where Jesus admonishes anyone for using a weapon against an advancing threat, you do not have scriptures where Jesus tells anyone who has a weapon to get rid of it. What do you have? Jesus telling people to arm themselves and keep their weapon at their sides. You lose.