We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[LLWHA]

jails are one thing which I support, .

Prisons are anti-God.

Holding cells ok.

You get caught by two witness doing a crime. Holding this person is ok in Gods Law till trial.

At the trial you are condemned to your punishment under His Law or they set you free because they think you are not guilty or there are not the two witnesses.

No prison warehouses in Gods Law.

 

[LLWHA]

But I do not believe in killing others,.

Again anti-God.

No prison warehouses in Gods Law. The prison system is satans system.

God system call for executions for those guilty of some crimes.

 

[LLWHA]

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

You are trying to say Jesus didn’t mean what he said here?

This is what Jesus said and meant.5:39 But I say unto you, Do not resist evil (with evil): but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also (and thereby neutralize the evil with good).

4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.


Word here above in Deuteronomy means The Law of God as it does here in Matthew

Matthew:13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
13:19 When any one heareth the Word of the Kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the Word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth BECAUSE OF the Word, by and by he is offended.
13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the Word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the Word, and he becometh unfruitful.
13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the Word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Obeying Gods Law means Malachi.4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.


If you will be a coward and will not fight to restore the Law (Word) of God well this is what happens to your soul that has lived for millions of years.

Malachi. 4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).

Do you like satans slave system or will you fight?

Its all up to you.

Fight and live forever or burn!!

 

[Giver]

This is what Jesus said and meant.5:39 But I say unto you, Do not resist evil (with evil): but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also (and thereby neutralize the evil with good).

4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.


Word here above in Deuteronomy means The Law of God as it does here in Matthew

Matthew:13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
13:19 When any one heareth the Word of the Kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the Word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth BECAUSE OF the Word, by and by he is offended.
13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the Word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the Word, and he becometh unfruitful.
13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the Word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Obeying Gods Law means Malachi.4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.


If you will be a coward and will not fight to restore the Law (Word) of God well this is what happens to your soul that has lived for millions of years.

Malachi. 4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).

Do you like satans slave system or will you fight?

Its all up to you.

Fight and live forever or burn!!

(Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

You use the Old Covenant to justify disobeying what Jesus said. Jesus came to complete the OLD. Like Paul said something that is old just gets older and fades away.

 

[Zecryphon]

Prisons are anti-God.

Holding cells ok.

You get caught by two witness doing a crime. Holding this person is ok in Gods Law till trial.

At the trial you are condemned to your punishment under His Law or they set you free because they think you are not guilty or there are not the two witnesses.

No prison warehouses in Gods Law.

Couldn't slavery be seen as a type of prison system? No slave could be kept as a slave for a period of more than seven years. At the end of seven years a slave could make the choice to remain a slave, but at the end of seven years they had to be given the choice, freedom or slavery. Slavery was used in the OT as punishment for crimes committed. A way to make restitution. Couldn't that be viewed as a prison without walls?

 

[Giver]

Try again, this passage is about retribution/vengeance. And more specifically because they were using the passage as a means to avenge crimes outside of the judicial system.
[/color][/font][/size]

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Live by violence, die by violence. That says absolutely nothing about defending yourself. (you can defend yourself with your bare hands too)
That applies to someone who steals from you, not someone who intends to kill you or others. The focus is more on that the things of this world are temporal, so we should not concern ourselves with them. Instead we should be more concerned about the treasures we build in heaven. (i.e. good deeds)



Once again, nothing about defending people from harm. On another note, there are those who have to keep order in society. Could you imagine if there was no law enforcement? If you think it'd be some sort of utopian lets-hold-each-others-hands type world, you are thinking wrong.

The world needs the Law and the world has to enforce its laws. Christians are not part of the world.

(John 15:18-19) “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me before you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you do not belong to the world because my choice withdrew you from the world.”

(1 Timothy 1:8-11) “We know, of course, that the Law is good, but only provided it is treated like any law, in the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are good. On the contrary, they are for criminals and revolutionaries, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the irreverent; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, for those who are immoral with women or with boys or with men, for liars and for perjurers and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching that goes with the Good News of the glory of the blessed God, the gospel that was entrusted to me.”

(Romans 7:4) “That is why you, my brothers, who through the body of Christ are now dead to the Law, can now give yourselves to another husband, to him who rose from the dead to make us productive for God.”

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

The world needs the Law and the world has to enforce its laws. Christians are not part of the world.

(John 15:18-19) “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me before you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you do not belong to the world because my choice withdrew you from the world.”

(1 Timothy 1:8-11) “We know, of course, that the Law is good, but only provided it is treated like any law, in the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are good. On the contrary, they are for criminals and revolutionaries, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the irreverent; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, for those who are immoral with women or with boys or with men, for liars and for perjurers and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching that goes with the Good News of the glory of the blessed God, the gospel that was entrusted to me.”

(Romans 7:4) “That is why you, my brothers, who through the body of Christ are now dead to the Law, can now give yourselves to another husband, to him who rose from the dead to make us productive for God.”

But we still live within the world. I live here, you live here, and other Christians live here. We can agree that the world is in a fallen state. What does any of your post have to do with whether or not we are to defend the helpless? Would it really not bother you at all, even deep down, if you knew someone needed you and you stood there praying?

 

[LLWHA]

Couldn't slavery be seen as a type of prison system? No slave could be kept as a slave for a period of more than seven years. At the end of seven years a slave could make the choice to remain a slave, but at the end of seven years they had to be given the choice, freedom or slavery. Slavery was used in the OT as punishment for crimes committed. A way to make restitution. Couldn't that be viewed as a prison without walls?

Yes it could.

Yes it could.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

unfortunately, the modern prison system is not really restitution at all. At least not in the sense of repayment. It is said that people are locked away to pay their debt to society, but while they are locked away, society is paying to keep them in there.

 

[LLWHA]

(Romans 12:18-21) “Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: ‘vengeance is Mine I will pay them back, the Lord promises,’ but there is more: if your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. Resist evil and conquer it with good.”

You use the Old Covenant to justify disobeying what Jesus said. Jesus came to complete the OLD. Like Paul said something that is old just gets older and fades away.

Did not Jesus say I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life?

"The Way" is Gods Law in the Old Testament.

Someone needs to study their Bible a little closer.

I follow Jesus Christ!! Not Paul or a church.

Lots of paul work is suspect as It goes against the Words Of Jesus and God.

This was done for power and control of the people by the elites and the priests.

"Jesus came to abolish the priesthood except for himself alone as the sole representative of the priesthood, being both High-Priest and King, after the order of Melchizedek.
He told his followers including the apostles and it is written in the Gospel of Matthew, that they must not be priests (rabbi) and must not be called father:-

23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Jesus told his TRUE followers, and it is written, again in Matthew, that they must NOT go to church and must NOT pray in church or in public, as the hypocrites DO.

6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (They wanted to be seen by men and they have been).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (telepathically); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Because He will answer you because you obeyed His instructions about how to do it, and when He does you will be so amazed that everyone will notice the change in you).

Therefore the parts of The Old Covenant that relate to the priesthood, churches and the animal sacrifices, for redemption from sin, are now OBSOLETE.
It does [SIZE=+1]not[SIZE=+1] affect the national and moral Law, [SIZE=+1]in any way[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as Jesus himself stated clearly, and it is written, again in the Gospel of Matthew:-

5:17 Think [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]come to destroy, but to [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]fulfill[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]one jot or one tittle[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]in no way[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] pass from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], till [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]all[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]COMMANDments[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], and shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teach[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] men so, he shall be called the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]least[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]do[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teach[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]your [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]righteousness shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]EXCEED[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians (who were also priests because the church and the state were one at that time), ye shall in [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

Therefore the death penalty for certain crimes ([/SIZE][SIZE=+1]including idolatry[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) still stands today along with the rest of The Law as a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]deterrent [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to the committing of those crimes. If the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]deterrent [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is removed then those crimes will automatically be committed, and increase, along with a breakdown of order, leading to even more crime.

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Before[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] you are [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]tempted[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] to quote the Gospel of John chapter 8 and The Adulterous Woman story, for an excuse, I must point out that this story did [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] appear in the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]original[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] New Testament and was [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]added[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] a long time later by powerful people who wanted to get away with committing adultery.
If it had happened then it could not have been as it is written because Jesus came to [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]uphold[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] to break it, as he stated clearly. In this story Jesus is reported to have said, "Go and sin [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]no more[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]" not "everybody go out and do it", as [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]has[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] happened precisely [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]because[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Adulterous Woman story.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]It could only have been a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]permissible[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] act of compassion because the woman was [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]truly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] repentant and because her husband begged for her to be spared and did not want to press charges against her, otherwise Jesus could [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] have pardoned her. There can be absolutely [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] remission of sins [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]without[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] true and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]complete[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] repentance.

The [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]millions[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of mischievous people who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]misquote[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the letters of Paul and say that The Law itself was abolished, and that everyone can therefore break The Law with impunity, just as long as they say the words "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God", [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]will burn[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as God says, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]their [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]crimes[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of misleading people and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]calling Jesus a liar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], along with the millions who were misled from The Way, by them, because they chose to believe [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the Truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Jesus said, "He that is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not with[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (and fighting [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) me, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (automatically) [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]AGAINST[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] me."

When Paul said that Jesus had saved everyone from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the curse[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Law he was referring to the Penalty Clauses of The Covenant which are clearly stated by Moses in Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to record[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] this day against you, [that] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I have set before you life and death[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]blessing and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cursing[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]live[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Therefore, exactly as it is stated [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]clearly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by the Lamb himself in his Song, everyone of the 144,000 who will be redeemed from the Earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]must[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]keeping[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law, written in the Song of Moses, and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO OTHER[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] - perfect harmony there." JAH[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[Giver]

Did not Jesus say I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life?

"The Way" is Gods Law in the Old Testament.

Someone needs to study their Bible a little closer.

I follow Jesus Christ!! Not Paul or a church.

Lots of paul work is suspect as It goes against the Words Of Jesus and God.

This was done for power and control of the people by the elites and the priests.

"Jesus came to abolish the priesthood except for himself alone as the sole representative of the priesthood, being both High-Priest and King, after the order of Melchizedek.
He told his followers including the apostles and it is written in the Gospel of Matthew, that they must not be priests (rabbi) and must not be called father:-

23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

Jesus told his TRUE followers, and it is written, again in Matthew, that they must NOT go to church and must NOT pray in church or in public, as the hypocrites DO.

6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (They wanted to be seen by men and they have been).
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (telepathically); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. (Because He will answer you because you obeyed His instructions about how to do it, and when He does you will be so amazed that everyone will notice the change in you).

Therefore the parts of The Old Covenant that relate to the priesthood, churches and the animal sacrifices, for redemption from sin, are now OBSOLETE.
It does [SIZE=+1]not[SIZE=+1] affect the national and moral Law, [SIZE=+1]in any way[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as Jesus himself stated clearly, and it is written, again in the Gospel of Matthew:-[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]5:17 Think [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]come to destroy, but to [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]fulfill[/SIZE][SIZE=+1].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]one jot or one tittle[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]in no way[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] pass from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The Law[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], till [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]all[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be fulfilled.Jesus came and completed the Old Law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]COMMANDments[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], and shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teach[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] men so, he shall be called the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]least[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]do[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]teach[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]5:20 For I say unto you, That except [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]your [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]righteousness shall [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]EXCEED[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians (who were also priests because the church and the state were one at that time), ye shall in [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Therefore the death penalty for certain crimes ([/SIZE][SIZE=+1]including idolatry[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) still stands today along with the rest of The Law as a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]deterrent [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to the committing of those crimes. If the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]deterrent [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is removed then those crimes will automatically be committed, and increase, along with a breakdown of order, leading to even more crime.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Before[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] you are [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]tempted[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] to quote the Gospel of John chapter 8 and The Adulterous Woman story, for an excuse, I must point out that this story did [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] appear in the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]original[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] New Testament and was [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]added[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] a long time later by powerful people who wanted to get away with committing adultery.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If it had happened then it could not have been as it is written because Jesus came to [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]uphold[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] to break it, as he stated clearly. In this story Jesus is reported to have said, "Go and sin [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]no more[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]" not "everybody go out and do it", as [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]has[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] happened precisely [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]because[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Adulterous Woman story.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]It could only have been a [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]permissible[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] act of compassion because the woman was [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]truly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] repentant and because her husband begged for her to be spared and did not want to press charges against her, otherwise Jesus could [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] have pardoned her. There can be absolutely [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] remission of sins [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]without[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] true and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]complete[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] repentance.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]millions[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of mischievous people who [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]misquote[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the letters of Paul and say that The Law itself was abolished, and that everyone can therefore break The Law with impunity, just as long as they say the words "I believe that Jesus is the Son of God", [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]will burn[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], exactly as God says, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]their [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]crimes[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of misleading people and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]calling Jesus a liar[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], along with the millions who were misled from The Way, by them, because they chose to believe [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the Truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Jesus said, "He that is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]not with[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (and fighting [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]for[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]) me, [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]is[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (automatically) [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]AGAINST[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] me."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]When Paul said that Jesus had saved everyone from [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]the curse[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] of The Law he was referring to the Penalty Clauses of The Covenant which are clearly stated by Moses in Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]to record[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] this day against you, [that] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I have set before you life and death[/SIZE][SIZE=+1], [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]blessing and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cursing[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]live[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Therefore, exactly as it is stated [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]clearly[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by the Lamb himself in his Song, everyone of the 144,000 who will be redeemed from the Earth [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]must[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] be [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]keeping[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The Law, written in the Song of Moses, and [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]NO OTHER[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] - perfect harmony there." JAH[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

There is no way to discuss God with you. You use, God’s written Word when it fits what you want to believe. The rest is suspect or should not be in the book at all.

Jesus personally told me that the Bible is the written Word of God, and that he is God. My discussion is with people who believe those two facts.

(Romans 7:4) “That is why you, my brothers, who through the body of Christ are now dead to the Law, can now give yourselves to another husband, to him who rose from the dead to make us productive for God.”

(Hebrews 8:13) “By speaking of a new covenant, he implies that the first one is already old. Now anything old only gets more antiquated until in the end it disappears.”

 

[itsfinished]

Are there ways around stealing? Adultery? Coveting? Can we covet during war? Or perhaps if someone is breaking into our home? How about lying in order to save our loved ones?

Interesting. The Lord tells us not to give any thought to our lives. What we will wear or eat. He also tells us not to worry about this body being harmed, but rather, fear the one that after this flesh has been destroyed can send it to hell. Fear that one. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I shall repay.

Another interesting thing. Who made our enemies? God, does he not love them as well as us? Or perhaps we are better than them now since we have seen the light. Bah. So he loved us less when we were yet sinners?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Are there ways around stealing? Adultery? Coveting? Can we covet during war? Or perhaps if someone is breaking into our home? How about lying in order to save our loved ones?

Or how about gathering food or healing on the sabbath?

 

[itsfinished]

Or how about gathering food or healing on the sabbath?

I think Jesus answered that one too : )

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I think Jesus answered that one too : )

and what is the lesson learned?

 

[itsfinished]

I'm not sure it's a lesson learned, however, Jesus sums it up with one word. Love. Love your enemies, do good to them that use you and persecute you.
But, jet, I'm not sure where you are coming from : )

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I'm not sure it's a lesson learned, however, Jesus sums it up with one word. Love. Love your enemies, do good to them that use you and persecute you.
But, jet, I'm not sure where you are coming from : )

I meant that Christ allowed His disciples to gather food, even though it was breaking the sabbath. What is more important? Blessing those who persecute you, or defending the helpless? By the way, the last verse you quoted has nothing to do with defending yourself. If someone wants to live their life thinking that its wrong to defend God's people from danger, then so be it. The God I know wants action. He wants people that do His work rather than sit around and pray all day doing nothing. I'll fall in line with the disciples that followed Jesus (who had weapons themselves).

 

[fated]

Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

You are not allowed to draw such simple conclusions on complex issues. You must not "drop your brain on the ground" to make things easy.

For instance, if your loved one is being gang raped and you have the means at your disposal to "even strike the lethal blow" you would be justified in doing so. Most theologians would go farther and demand that it would, in fact, be your responsibility to do so.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

You are not allowed to draw such simple conclusions on complex issues. You must not "drop your brain on the ground" to make things easy.

For instance, if your loved one is being gang raped and you have the means at your disposal to "even strike the lethal blow" you would be justified in doing so. Most theologians would go farther and demand that it would, in fact, be your responsibility to do so.

Thats my train of thought, that it is more of a disservice to God to stand idly by and let someone hurt/kill the helpless.

 

[Giver]

Thats my train of thought, that it is more of a disservice to God to stand idly by and let someone hurt/kill the helpless.

All you are telling us is that you haven’t learned to take orders. You some how don’t have enough faith that God will take care of you and that his will, will be done.