We are mobilizing our military with the expectation of having a vaccine by the end of the year

[keith99]

Once a vaccine becomes available and manufactured it's a big job, 350 million + vaccines. Even considering some people will decline getting one, anti-vaxxers really aren't that large a group... I think the state with the worst vaccination % runs around 88-89% vaccination rate, which is still fairly high, although not as high as public health would like (as the goal is 95%)..

But even if there are far lower rates of those getting this vaccine, even half the country is a massive undertaking when you want it to occur in a short a time frame as possible. It's not easy vaccinating 175 million or so..

You kind of want every available hand for that, whether that's help in shipping, in manufacturing and stocking, whether that's help with the paper work involved, or giving the vaccines, regardless of the help given, it's a massive undertaking and many will be wanting vaccinated the second it's available, without much patience in delays. Some will be quick to sue if they don't get it quickly... so it's kind of a major thing here.

169.1 was the number of flu vaccine doses last year. Did you notice any crowds when getting vaccinated. I'm not saying vaccinating everyone for covid-19 isn't a big task, but it is not that much greater than a task done every year.

 

[revanneosl]

I have this vague memory of all the kids at my elementary school lining up in the cafeteria to get vaccinated. Must have been polio.

 

[Hazelelponi]

169.1 was the number of flu vaccine doses last year. Did you notice any crowds when getting vaccinated. I'm not saying vaccinating everyone for covid-19 isn't a big task, but it is not that much greater than a task done every year.

I'm surprised the number is that high... I'm in the group that should get a flu shot and never do, because I never get the flu unless I get a shot.. lol.

But I think people are taking this coronavirus far more seriously than they take the flu. Mostly it's only the very young, the very old and healthcare workers who are even recommended to get a flu shot.. which is why those numbers surprise me.

But I do think more people will actually want the coronavirus vaccine than usually get a flu shot.

 

[ZNP]

I don't think he will pass the top 2. But he just might manage the worst in U.S. history since the Bubonic Plague and Smallpox had their peak years before the U.S. had much of a population.

Remember he promised a "deal of the century" with Israel. Hey, maybe the deal of the age of grace.

 

[XAPLTOS]

That video says nothing of using the military for enforcement, rather it reinforces that he intends to use to military to administer the vaccine.

I’m talking about you making statements as if they were fact, and then saying they were subjective guesses afterwards when questioned.

I was clear. I said it’s what I envisioned.

Seriously? We’re already paying the military. Did you think they were volunteers? The vaccine should be purchased by the federal government (ideally it will be donated by whomever develops it) and it should be made available to all Americans at no cost. Having it distributed by public employees makes sense, to the extent it is possible.

. Look, I’ve heard that many times from conspiracy theorists when pressed for evidence or examples. It’s good to have theories and question things, but if you want to be taken seriously, and actually stop or prevent the new world order or whatever, you’ve got to do research and get to the bottom of things. Do actual research, find evidence, and then share it. “Asking questions” is just playing around. It can actually be harmful to post a bunch of unfounded stuff that makes people unnecessarily fearful.

If 95% of the military wouldn’t participate in (what you are calling) a coup, then the Illuminati ppl wouldn’t be making a plan that involves that. They’re not stupid. If you aren’t worried, then you know this isn’t actually going to happen. You’re “question” Is answered, yet you still post all of this stuff that could cause people stress and worry. It’s not a good time. Just write a movie script or something.

1-I never said he said it was going to be mandatory my question was what if it was made mandatory. I think this is now the 2nd or 3rd time saying this to you.

2-I never made a statement as a fact all my points were put forward as hypothetical or subjectively. What are you talking about?

3-when did I give the indication that the military is not paid. The drug companies will want to be paid though. You do realize your statement on how this would happen is stating it as fact mine were hypothetical. Did you even read anything I wrote.

4-post unfounded stuff? I posted a video of words coming out of the presidents mouth and asked what people thought this could mean. What questions are not allowed anymore? The other list of things to research are actual events that one could legitimately research. What are you talking about?

5-Listen if I’m worrying you move on but I will post what I want when I want and how I want. This is a debate and discussion forum and your responses to me are ludicrous.

 

[XAPLTOS]

Don't be so sure about that. They fired on protesting students at Kent State and Col. Douglas MacArthur ordered his troops to fire on protesting WW1 vets in Washington DC. They did.

good point. As I pointed out to another poster with the same point I’ve been asking vets for years if they would and the answer I have always gotten is no they would stand down. Hopefully we never have to test this to see who is right.

 

[XAPLTOS]

Once a vaccine becomes available and manufactured it's a big job, 350 million + vaccines. Even considering some people will decline getting one, anti-vaxxers really aren't that large a group... I think the state with the worst vaccination % runs around 88-89% vaccination rate, which is still fairly high, although not as high as public health would like (as the goal is 95%)..

But even if there are far lower rates of those getting this vaccine, even half the country is a massive undertaking when you want it to occur in a short a time frame as possible. It's not easy vaccinating 175 million or so..

You kind of want every available hand for that, whether that's help in shipping, in manufacturing and stocking, whether that's help with the paper work involved, or giving the vaccines, regardless of the help given, it's a massive undertaking and many will be wanting vaccinated the second it's available, without much patience in delays. Some will be quick to sue if they don't get it quickly... so it's kind of a major thing here.

I understand the point you have put forward. My whole point to my original post was Posse Comitatus and the appearance of the intent of that law being broken. How would the public respond and what problems would there be if it were made mandatory. But good point on logistics and the role the military would play.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I understand the point you have put forward. My whole point to my original post was Posse Comitatus and the appearance of the intent of that law being broken. How would the public respond and what problems would there be if it were made mandatory. But good point on logistics and the role the military would play.

Yeah I honestly can't see government even trying to make it mandatory... they won't go there.

The mandatory route however might be in places of employment. A company can do something like that and legally get away with it, and with this virus that is more likely than not.

Already places of employment won't hire smokers etc. And since this virus is a contagion / public health emergency a company may require their employees be vaccinated...

 

[XAPLTOS]

Yeah I honestly can't see government even trying to make it mandatory... they won't go there.

The mandatory route however might be in places of employment. A company can do something like that and legally get away with it, and with this virus that is more likely than not.

Already places of employment won't hire smokers etc. And since this virus is a public health emergency a company may require their employees be vaccinated...

definitely possible on your point about employers my wife was mandated as an x-ray tech to have particular vaccines. As far as the government making it mandatory across the board it would cause legal issues all over the country. People would be suing like crazy but in this current environment I can see them at least trying it at some level or out of some agency. I could be wrong but the push to do it definitely is there, the public’s will to submit I don’t think is though.

 

[Hazelelponi]

definitely possible on your point about employers my wife was mandated as an x-ray tech to have particular vaccines. As far as the government making it mandatory across the board it would cause legal issues all over the country. People would be suing like crazy but in this current environment I can see them at least trying it at some level or out of some agency. I could be wrong but the push to do it definitely is there, the public’s will to submit I don’t think is though.

I agree with you the public won't allow it and it would start massive protests.

Government pushing a mandatory vaccine would actually have the opposite affect than intended. Less people would get vaccinated if it was made mandatory than if government just let it ride as available to all free of cost.

Already there are fringe groups worried about the vaccine, coupled with others that don't like the rush through trials... it's better for the government to just have a good vaccine available, and let people make up their own minds, which for some will take time.

But if you want to bet... I put mine on a mandatory push from corporations and businesses, with availability through government without legislation concerning making it mandatory, at least for now. They'll give people time to warm up to the idea, although someday it will be like other mandatory vaccines which will take a waiver to avoid.

 

[keith99]

I agree with you the public won't allow it and it would start massive protests.

Government pushing a mandatory vaccine would actually have the opposite affect than intended. Less people would get vaccinated if it was made mandatory than if government just let it ride as available to all free of cost.

Already there are fringe groups worried about the vaccine, coupled with others that don't like the rush through trials... it's better for the government to just have a good vaccine available, and let people make up their own minds, which for some will take time.

But if you want to bet... I put mine on a mandatory push from corporations and businesses, with availability through government without legislation concerning making it mandatory, at least for now. They'll give people time to warm up to the idea, although someday it will be like other mandatory vaccines which will take a waiver to avoid.

Especially since at least to start there will be far more wanting the vaccine than there are doses available.

My bet is some companies will make arrangements that allow employees to get vaccinated at work. Nothing new some companies have been doing that with the annual flu vaccines for years. The change might be that they might add allowing family members (defined as those on teh employees insurance) to also take advantage of such programs.

I'll ask my physician if he thinks it is advisable to get vaccinated once a vaccine is available. Often it is not wise for at risk or even borderline at risk people to delay a bit with new vaccines until the results from more people come in.

 

[JackRT]

I suspect that the vaccine will be administered according to degree of risk --- nursing homes first followed by health care workers, people over 70, etc.

 

[wing2000]

I agree with you the public won't allow it and it would start massive protests.

Government pushing a mandatory vaccine would actually have the opposite affect than intended. Less people would get vaccinated if it was made mandatory than if government just let it ride as available to all free of cost.

Already there are fringe groups worried about the vaccine, coupled with others that don't like the rush through trials... it's better for the government to just have a good vaccine available, and let people make up their own minds, which for some will take time.

But if you want to bet... I put mine on a mandatory push from corporations and businesses, with availability through government without legislation concerning making it mandatory, at least for now. They'll give people time to warm up to the idea, although someday it will be like other mandatory vaccines which will take a waiver to avoid.

Trump announcing that he will rush the vaccine at "warp speed" is cause for concern. If it's up to him, he would definitely deploy a vaccine that has not been sufficiently tested for his own selfish political purpose.

 

[Desk trauma]

Trump announcing that he will rush the vaccine at "warp speed" is cause for concern.

We can only hope that the labs making it do not bow to the pressure, or that he is no longer a factor when a vaccination is ready as we have the chance to be rid of him well before even the most optimistic estimates have that taking place.

 

[expos4ever]

Why all the objection to making vaccination mandatory? Do you guys object to legally enforced speed limits on the highway? Do you consider it an infringement on your "freedom" to be not allowed to make child inappropriate contentography?

And I suggest you don't try the "those-things-are-not-actions-taken-against-my-body" argument. That argument only gets its purchase from our entirely irrational (at least in the modern setting) hard-wired instinct to protect our body from perceived harm.

If we think with our logical forebrains, and not our primitive hindbrains, it is clear that, just like laws against driving 100 mph, or making child inappropriate content, a law requiring vaccination represents an entirely rational solution to a very serious problem (i.e. the problem of non-voluntary compliance to vaccination). The "you-don't-have-the-right-to-mess-with-my-body" argument appears to have only an emotional, visceral appeal - I see no case for it if one is committed to a rational trade-off of all the issues involved: the rights of others to live free from needless suffering as well as the right to decide what goes into your body.

It seems to me that those who oppose mandatory vaccination almost always focus solely on matters of personal freedom, with such views often delivered with stirring slogans and evocative images. It is, frankly, disingenuous to ignore the other key moral consideration: the right to live free of suffering.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Why all the objection to making vaccination mandatory? Do you guys object to legally enforced speed limits on the highway? Do you consider it an infringement on your "freedom" to be not allowed to make child inappropriate contentography?

And I suggest you don't try the "those-things-are-not-actions-taken-against-my-body" argument. That argument only gets its purchase from our entirely irrational (at least in the modern setting) hard-wired instinct to protect our body from perceived harm.

If we think with our logical forebrains, and not our primitive hindbrains, it is clear that, just like laws against driving 100 mph, or making child inappropriate content, a law requiring vaccination represents an entirely rational solution to a very serious problem (i.e. the problem of non-voluntary compliance to vaccination). The "you-don't-have-the-right-to-mess-with-my-body" argument appears to have only an emotional, visceral appeal - I see no case for it if one is committed to a rational trade-off of all the issues involved: the rights of others to live free from needless suffering as well as the right to decide what goes into your body.

It seems to me that those who oppose mandatory vaccination almost always focus solely on matters of personal freedom, with such views often delivered with stirring slogans and evocative images. It is, frankly, disingenuous to ignore the other key moral consideration: the right to live free of suffering.

I don't object concerning mandatory vaccination, it's completely logical all things considered, but human nature being such that it is, you can't force people to do something unless you don't want them to do it at all... Its based on the concept of reverse psychology, tell someone only the rich can have it and you'll have people clamoring to get it... tell someone they have to have it and you'll find protests in the streets.

It's just human nature.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Trump announcing that he will rush the vaccine at "warp speed" is cause for concern. If it's up to him, he would definitely deploy a vaccine that has not been sufficiently tested for his own selfish political purpose.

The entire world, and every scientist in it is working toward being the first to develop a vaccination...

Trumps just going by facts. There is:

1.) A push by competing pharmaceutical companies to be the first to develop a vaccine, because billions of dollars are at stake (to put it mildly).

2) people desire a vaccine in order to resume life as usual. For as much as we'd like to open back up, we won't see any real economic recovery until people feel safe from the virus... therefore the government is willing to allow human trials to go forward earlier. (Otherwise regardless of who was in office they'd be accused of keeping potential cures away from the masses)

So it's just a fact, there is a rush on wanting a vaccine, with or without Trump, as well as a rush on R&D. So Trump is just parroting the Pharmaceutical industry. They already have two potential vaccines in human trials in this country, as well as more in Germany I believe...

 

[wing2000]

So it's just a fact, there is a rush on wanting a vaccine, with or without Trump, as well as a rush on R&D. So Trump is just parroting the Pharmaceutical industry. They already have two potential vaccines in human trials in this country, as well as more in Germany I believe...

Phase 1 trials are underway in record time. Phase 2 & 3 remain....and it will take time to allow large trial groups to develop any side effects that could prove dangerous for the public at large. Human biology can't be rushed.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Phase 1 trials are underway in record time. Phase 2 & 3 remain....and it will take time to allow large trial groups to develop any side effects that could prove dangerous for the public at large. Human biology can't be rushed.

Until then everyone is going to say they'll have a vaccine in a year....

 

[ZNP]

Trump announcing that he will rush the vaccine at "warp speed" is cause for concern. If it's up to him, he would definitely deploy a vaccine that has not been sufficiently tested for his own selfish political purpose.

If it was up to him I suspect he would already be injecting anyone who disagrees with him with disinfectant.