Water Baptism is not a command in scripture

[Egghead]

Evidence that it ocuured not that it was done because Christ commanded it. I showed that your interpretation was flawed ignore it if you want. that is what you just did. Please use scripture to further your point or it is just your opinion with know proof.

Your one to speak of opinion with no proof.
Youve been given quite a enough to PROVE that the church was baptising.

and again...

After these things Jesus, along with His disciples, came into the land of Judea, and there He was stayed with them and He was baptizing.

Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salem, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.
(Joh 3:22-23 EMTV)

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
(Joh 4:1-3 KJV)

John did it.
Jesus did it MORE.
Paul and the others did it.
''command'' or not, you are WRONG to teach anyone to be lax about baptism.

 

[statrei]

So, what's going to happen? Who is God going to spank?

 

[notinvain]

this passage has nothing whatsoever to do with water

Prove it.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I agree with the OP that baptism in water is not a requirement. If it were, Jesus would have engaged in the practise of baptising those who believed in Him. However, John the Baptist states in two gospels that Jesus would baptise with fire and with the Holy Spirit, not water.

Furthermore, I think that the whole question of whether a believer must be baptised can be compared to the question in the early church of whether believers must be circumcised. I think most Christians would agree that Christians need not be circumsized. However, the debate still rages about whether Christians must be baptised, despite the fact that baptism is as much a symbolic act as circumcision.

 

[Egghead]

However, John the Baptist states in two gospels that Jesus would baptise with fire and with the Holy Spirit, not water.

Im sorry, but this just gets me ........

After these things Jesus, along with His disciples, came into the land of Judea, and there He was stayed with them and He was baptizing.

Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salem, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.
(Joh 3:22-23 EMTV)

----------------------------------

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
(Joh 4:1-3 KJV)

Why do some folks keep insisting that Jesus DIDNT baptise with water when it shows that His disciples, along with Him, baptised MORE than even John did ?

Furthermore, I think that the whole question of whether a believer must be baptised can be compared to the question in the early church of whether believers must be circumcised.

what in the........

circumcision was OT.....of course we dont need to do it.
Baptism is NEW Covenant, NOT old.
There IS no comparison !

I think most Christians would agree that Christians need not be circumsized

apples and oranges.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

what in the........

circumcision was OT.....of course we dont need to do it.
Baptism is NEW Covenant, NOT old.
There IS no comparison !

apples and oranges.

All this is merely your opinion. If I choose to find tremendous parallels to the circumcision debate, it is my right. You have no authority to tell me there is no comparison.

 

[Egghead]

All this is merely your opinion. If I choose to find tremendous parallels to the circumcision debate, it is my right. You have no authority to tell me there is no comparison.

of course, anytime theres a disagreement in here, its just an ''opinion''

I have no right, and I didnt tell you anything without giving you CLEAR scripture to back it up.

Here it is again

After these things Jesus, along with His disciples, came into the land of Judea, and there He was stayed with them and He was baptizing.
Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salem, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.
(Joh 3:22-23 EMTV)

----------------------------------

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
(Joh 4:1-3 KJV)

 

[Egghead]

All this is merely your opinion. If I choose to find tremendous parallels to the circumcision debate, it is my right. You have no authority to tell me there is no comparison.

There is no comparison..

I provided passages here.....

After these things Jesus, along with His disciples, came into the land of Judea, and there He was stayed with them and He was baptizing.
Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salem, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.
(Joh 3:22-23 EMTV)

----------------------------------

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
(Joh 4:1-3 KJV).

You on the other hand provided NOTHING but your "opinion" with not a single word of scripture to back it up.


Baptism is taught all thru the NT.......WATER baptism as shown above.

Paul said this about circumcision..

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God.

Circumcision is nothing.
Baptism has been done since John started doing it......Christs disciples continued baptising and did so even MORE than John had.

Unless you provide a scripture in direct conflict with the above it is YOU who are providing nothing but opinion

 

[guakerman]

of course, anytime theres a disagreement in here, its just an ''opinion''

I have no right, and I didnt tell you anything without giving you CLEAR scripture to back it up.

Here it is again

You realize scripture says Jesus does not baptize. John 3:22 which you use is vague and is cleared up in 4:2 which states he knew what the pharisees had heard about him baptizing(3:22) and then says he did not water baptize, so your wrong in saying scripture says he did, because it states the opposite. So as clear as it seems to you it really isnt. And has stated above Jesus was to baptize with the Spirit not water, that was John the bapties Calling not Christ. Just because it was a common event then does not make it a common need know. There was a imagine a lot of common practices then not done know. If it is sympolic, when was it begun as such. it is never EVER explained in scripture as being sympolic or important, only that it was used or done. And Rom 6 is NOT about water baptism. It is dicribing the Holy Spirit baptism because that is what really happens and is purelly Spiritual. Christ is the body and Church and we are baptises into the body of Christ or Church by the Spirit. Gal. 3:27 1 cor. 12:13

 

[guakerman]

Prove it.

Which passage Rom 6 or John 3:3 Neither speak about water baptism. John 3:3 is self explanitory in verse 6, what is the Flesh gives birth to flesh if not speaking of water(human birth) And Rom 6 is what actually takes place there is no sympolism so to speak though we do not see it happen because it is a spirtual event and change. Paul never speaks about water baptism except his breif statement in 1 Cor 1, in which he says it is not the gospel message for which he was sent to teach. He explains how it is already a burdone to the Church because it is misunderstood and misused, same today as it was then.

 

[guakerman]

You have been shown that men WERE being baptized with WATER by Paul and others AFTER John was dead and Jesus had ascended.
That is enough evidence.

If you dont want to believe it, then dont.
again I will remind you tho....

My name has changed from SCHROEDER TO QUAKER MAN. I told you i know they did water baptize, but that does not mean i was to become a must for Christians to do. It was never discribed or shown has to why it needs to be done. Thats a fact. Its evidence it was done that is all, or that it was a popular thing to be done, but it never says why. They did many other things right after being saved as well but i do not see us continueing them. Do you wash others feet, Did you sell your possesions and give it to your church leader, ect. i doubt it. And why did you ignore my post about 1 Peter 3:20, do you agree that i am right and saying it is not water baptism explained but is the Spirit.

 

[Mister_Al]

1) John the Baptist said that 'he' (John) must decrease and "He" (Jesus) must increase (John 3:30). John was speaking of his importance in regard to the importance of Jesus. John wasn't talking about his baptism. John's ministry was to prepare the way for Jesus, and when Jesus started His ministry the purpose of John's ministry was fullfilled so John had to step back out of the picture as Jesus came forth in His ministry.

2) Before a person can be "born again" into Christ, he must first "die" to get out of Adam. You can't be born of God and born of Adam at the same time. Paul says in Romans 6:3 that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death. This is not a symbolic death, when you are joined to Christ you actually partake of His death and that means that you die. And, when a man dies he is freed from the power of sin (Romans 6:7). Or, you can say you are free from the family line of Adam and can now be born again into the family of God. Paul writes in Romans 6:5 : Now if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be one with Him in sharing His resurrection.

3) If the baptism in the New Testament is the baptism of the Spirit as some believe, then the 3,000 people that were saved on the day of Pentecost were not actually saved as the Bible says because there is no mention of anyone bieng filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit, but they were only baptized with water (Acts 2:41) in the Name of Jesus (Acts 2:38). Acts 4:4 says that the Churches number grew to about 5,000, but there still isn't a mention of anybody being filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit. It's not until Acts 4:31 that the Bible says they were all filled with the Holy Spirit.

4) Water baptism IS commanded for the New Testament Church by Jesus Himself in Matthew 28:19. Jesus said to make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. So, if everyone had been fathful to this command to baptize, then everyone in the church would be baptized today and this discussion wouldn't be going on.

 

[QuantaCura]

Doing away with water-Baptism is a doctrine of men, invented very recently. Nowhere in Christain history do we see people blowing it off until recently when people began interpreting Scripture through their own personal biases instead of the "bias" of the Apostles.

 

[Veritas]

Doing away with water-Baptism is a doctrine of men, invented very recently. Nowhere in Christain history do we see people blowing it off until recently when people began interpreting Scripture through their own personal biases instead of the "bias" of the Apostles.

Amen Gotta love that sola scriptura theory. The further from the "Reformation" you get, the more inventions you see. I wonder what Luther would think nearly 500 years after he started a revolution?

 

[statrei]

Amen Gotta love that sola scriptura theory. The further from the "Reformation" you get, the more inventions you see. I wonder what Luther would think nearly 500 years after he started a revolution?

Maybe it would help if we corrected this piece of mishistory. Luther did not start the Reformation.

 

[Imblessed]

1) John the Baptist said that 'he' (John) must decrease and "He" (Jesus) must increase (John 3:30). John was speaking of his importance in regard to the importance of Jesus. John wasn't talking about his baptism. John's ministry was to prepare the way for Jesus, and when Jesus started His ministry the purpose of John's ministry was fullfilled so John had to step back out of the picture as Jesus came forth in His ministry.

2) Before a person can be "born again" into Christ, he must first "die" to get out of Adam. You can't be born of God and born of Adam at the same time. Paul says in Romans 6:3 that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death. This is not a symbolic death, when you are joined to Christ you actually partake of His death and that means that you die. And, when a man dies he is freed from the power of sin (Romans 6:7). Or, you can say you are free from the family line of Adam and can now be born again into the family of God. Paul writes in Romans 6:5 : Now if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be one with Him in sharing His resurrection.

3) If the baptism in the New Testament is the baptism of the Spirit as some believe, then the 3,000 people that were saved on the day of Pentecost were not actually saved as the Bible says because there is no mention of anyone bieng filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit, but they were only baptized with water (Acts 2:41) in the Name of Jesus (Acts 2:38). Acts 4:4 says that the Churches number grew to about 5,000, but there still isn't a mention of anybody being filled (baptized) with the Holy Spirit. It's not until Acts 4:31 that the Bible says they were all filled with the Holy Spirit.

4) Water baptism IS commanded for the New Testament Church by Jesus Himself in Matthew 28:19. Jesus said to make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. So, if everyone had been fathful to this command to baptize, then everyone in the church would be baptized today and this discussion wouldn't be going on.

How do you baptize INTO the trinity by water, when scripture says we are united into the Church by the Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13, and why do we insist it be done only by the church leaders. anyone could water baptize anyone else at any time. why in Acts 15 does peter say God aproved of them (refering to acts 10-11) at the moment they believed and received or were filled with the Holy Spirit. you have taken act 4 out of context. being filled with the Holy Spirit does not always mean you are given it for the first time.

 

[Imblessed]

Doing away with water-Baptism is a doctrine of men, invented very recently. Nowhere in Christain history do we see people blowing it off until recently when people began interpreting Scripture through their own personal biases instead of the "bias" of the Apostles.

Doing away with it is not the point. It is teaching it properly that is the point, which is rarely done.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

No were in scripture is this idea commanded,.

Better try giving it another read.

 

[Melethiel]

Amen Gotta love that sola scriptura theory. The further from the "Reformation" you get, the more inventions you see. I wonder what Luther would think nearly 500 years after he started a revolution?

He would be shocked and dismayed.
I still fail to understand how the central doctrine of Baptism can be twisted so.

 

[Imblessed]

He would be shocked and dismayed.
I still fail to understand how the central doctrine of Baptism can be twisted so.

Well there is no doctrine for it so it is very easily twisted.