Water Baptism is not a command in scripture

[Imblessed]

Better try giving it another read.

Show me where it is without a doubt commanded by christ or anyone of the disciples. How you can give a command and not explain its true purpose is deceitfull at the least.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Show me where it is without a doubt commanded by christ or anyone of the disciples. How you can give a command and not explain its true purpose is deceitfull at the least.

Again? It is all through this thread. Oh well, we are told to have a ready answer, so here it is; though it really doesn't matter how much proof is given to you, you will not receive it.

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." Jesus Himself is saying that believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific.

John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - Everyone is instantly baptized after learning of Jesus

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized.

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins

Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. "

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification

Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ.

Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ.

Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” This is a powerful text which proves that baptism regenerates our souls and is thus salvific.

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you.

There are hundreds of more verses supporting the necessity of baptism. However is Scripture is not enough for you, we have the example of the early Church from the very beginning.

For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, (A.D. 110-165).

"Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration,--as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." Theopilus of Antioch (A.D. 181).

"When, however, the prescript is laid down that 'without baptism, salvation is attainable by none" (chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, "Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'" Tertullian (A.D. 203).

"But you will perhaps say, What does the, baptism of water contribute towards the worship of God? In the first place, because that which hath pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because, when yon are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so at length you shall be able to attain salvation; hut otherwise it is impossible. For thus hath the true prophet testified to its with an oath: 'Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Therefore make haste; for there is in these waters a certain power of mercy which was borne upon them at the beginning, and acknowledges those who are baptized under the name of the threefold sacrament, and rescues them from future punishments, presenting as a gift to God the souls that are consecrated by baptism. Betake yourselves therefore to these waters, for they alone can quench the violence of the future fire; and he who delays to approach to them, it is evident that the idol of unbelief remains in him, and by it be is prevented from hastening to the waters which confer salvation. For whether you be righteous or unrighteous, baptism is necessary for you in every respect: for the righteous, that perfection may be accomplished in him, and he may be born again to God; for the unrighteous, that pardon may he vouchsafed him of the sins which he has committed in ignorance. Therefore all should hasten to he born again to God without delay, because the end of every one's life is uncertain." Recognitions of Clement (A.D. 221).

Of course this is not even scratching the surface of the 2000 year witness of the Chruch.

A wise person once wrote, "to those who obstinately refuse to believe, no proof will be sufficient."

Your brother in Christ

 

[Imblessed]

Again? It is all through this thread. Oh, well here it is, though it really doesn't matter how much proof is given to you, you will not receive it.

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

This is not a way to do it but is saying "INTO" which can only be done by the Spirit 1 Cor 12:13 or join in with the Trinity of God.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." Jesus Himself is saying that believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific.

Cant be water because it goes against other passages that clearly say water does not save or has no part of the Gospel 1 Cor 1 by Paul for instance. Read the gospel of John and see how many places this is said without the word Baptize, Why because he could not impart the Baptism of the Spirit before he dies.

John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Seriously misunderstood nothing to do with water, otherwise what does the Flesh mean in verse 6. If you get this passage wrong i can see your problem. It is of water (human birth) and the Spirit (christ baptism)

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - Everyone is instantly baptized after learning of Jesus

Doesnt mean it is commanded, they also it is said sold all there posesions,did you do that to.

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized.

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin.

again mistranslated or misunderstood No where is water given the ability to forgive sin, other wise it would have been given a bit more explanation as to how it did.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins

Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. "

Ananias is also said to be a devout jew and observer of the Law so he would understand it as meaning such. And also there is more then opne way to translate Greek words to english.

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life.

Not physically like Christ so that idea is wrong we die Spiritually and are raised Spiritually by christ Baptism. It actually takes place and we know scripture shows conversion before water. Acts 10-11, 15.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification

Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ.

Just because it references water or the word baptism you mean it to be literal water baptism, thats wrong, In verse 14 it says God is the Power not him along with us. Gal 3:27 is again not about water but being recongized by
God, does scripture not say Christ baptizes with the Spirit. wouildnt being baptized in christ no different then by christ. does not Paul in 1 cor 1 seperate water baptism or baptism by anyone else other then Christ from the Gospel.

Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ.

Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” This is a powerful text which proves that baptism regenerates our souls and is thus salvific.

Again it is the Holy Spirit doing all these things. How on earth do you exclude the Baptism of the Spirit by christ in these. again read verse 6 Poured out through christ, does pour mean pouring water on us by christ NO it is poured out the Spirit on us which regenert and renews, where in Scripture is this explained that water can do these thing.

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you.

again terribly misread. nothing to do with water, why sybolise water with water, doent make sense, and in Hebrews it states that the Ark saved them not water. the water killed everthing remember. It cleansed the earth so as the Spirit baptism of Christ cleanses us or rids us of sin, which the water of the flood cleansed the earth of sin, that is sympolism.

There are hundreds of more verses supporting the necessity of baptism. However is Scripture is not enough for you, we have the example of the early Church from the very beginning.

For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well…And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone…And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, (A.D. 110-165).

"Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration,--as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." Theopilus of Antioch (A.D. 181).

"When, however, the prescript is laid down that 'without baptism, salvation is attainable by none" (chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, "Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'" Tertullian (A.D. 203).

"But you will perhaps say, What does the, baptism of water contribute towards the worship of God? In the first place, because that which hath pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because, when yon are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so at length you shall be able to attain salvation; hut otherwise it is impossible. For thus hath the true prophet testified to its with an oath: 'Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Therefore make haste; for there is in these waters a certain power of mercy which was borne upon them at the beginning, and acknowledges those who are baptized under the name of the threefold sacrament, and rescues them from future punishments, presenting as a gift to God the souls that are consecrated by baptism. Betake yourselves therefore to these waters, for they alone can quench the violence of the future fire; and he who delays to approach to them, it is evident that the idol of unbelief remains in him, and by it be is prevented from hastening to the waters which confer salvation. For whether you be righteous or unrighteous, baptism is necessary for you in every respect: for the righteous, that perfection may be accomplished in him, and he may be born again to God; for the unrighteous, that pardon may he vouchsafed him of the sins which he has committed in ignorance. Therefore all should hasten to he born again to God without delay, because the end of every one's life is uncertain." Recognitions of Clement (A.D. 221).

Of course this is not even scratching the surface of the 2000 year witness of the Chruch.

A wise person once wrote, "to those who obstinately refuse to believe, no proof will be sufficient."

Your brother in Christ

early church staements do not mean anything to me especially when they do not follow clear scripture that says what Grace is. the church is not what christians go through to get to God it is a personal relation ship between you and God through Christ, the church is just all the saints of christ. Very important yes but not what we go through to get to God.

 

[Melethiel]

No where is water given the ability to forgive sin

Water itself does not forgive sin. The Word working through the water does.

 

[Imblessed]

Water itself does not forgive sin. The Word working through the water does.

Not in scripture either just said because you cant find were water does anything. the Word is Christ. God forgives period.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Not in scripture either just said because you cant find were water does anything. the Word is Christ. God forgives period.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins

Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. "

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

early church staements do not mean anything to me .

Clearly you feel that your own personal opinion carries more weight than those taught directly by the Apostles. But, your statements do not mean anything to me, particularly when they are not in line with consistant Christian teaching for since the beginning of the Church!

 

[FearAndTrembeling]

I dont have time to make this along post so I wont. I would just like to point out a couple things. First, is the sinner on the cross.

Luke 23:38-43 38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Clearly this man was not baptized with (physical)water, but believed God and was baptized with (living) water.

Secondly, the baptism of salvation is the sealing of the Holy Spirit, through the hearing of Gospel. And God controls that. The Gospel is the "living water".

John 19:34 - But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Search the scriptures for "living water", and search the scriptures for "water" > www.bible.com > Search

John's baptism was the last ceremonal law that God had given the Jews, those who feared God were to be obedient to it as a keeping of the commandments. When Jesus was baptized of Johns baptism Jesus said "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

Christ was the fulfillment of that righteousness, and the evidence of this is in the next few verses. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Christ had fulfilled ALL LAW KEEPING (ALL righteousness), and the Spirit of God descended upon Him, and stayed. This was evidence that He was the only begotten Son of God, as even God witnessed that He had completed ALL the Law of righteousness by saying "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

When Christ's disciples began to baptize in Jordan it was evidence that what John had preached was in line with the Gospel of Jesus. This was a witness to the pharisee's that John's baptism was from God, and that Jesus also was from God. And it justified God on behalf of everyone who was baptized(Luke 7:29)

As far as contributing to our salvation.. Are we forgetting about Lazarus who was dead in the tomb but Jesus SPOKE life into Him? Are we forgetting Ezekiel 36:25-27, or Ezekiel 37? Can we become acceptable to God of our own efforts? No.

Johns baptism is a confession of faith, and was evidence to them in those days that one wanted to continue in faith of Jesus Christ. But it was not a command of salvation, rather a testimony of faith. If your congragation teaches it is necessary for salvation then you better reread Matthew 24:11. And:

Ephesians 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And the problem with tradition, is.. well it becomes a tradition.

 

[Defiance]

Hey TwinCrier,

You missed the key word in Acts 2:38, repent be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. We become 'baptized' in Jesus' name when we accept him and the sacrifice that he made to forgive our sins if we come to him. When this is done, John the Baptist says that Jesus "will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." No where in the Bible does it say that baptism by water is neccessary. Although, to be fair the Bible does say that we should proclaim our faith in Christ Jesus publically and baptism is just one way of doing that.

Jesus was baptised and we are told to follow Him. It IS part of the gospel message and it is NOT solely about Christ and His Spirit, it is about baptism as well.

Jesus also went into the temple and taught on the Sabbath - do you follow that as well? To be baptized I believe is to say to God essentially in public that "I'm yours and may your will be done in my life." That is why God was proud of his Son, because his Son had committed himself to his Father's plan for salvation. The Salvation Army has 'soldiership' which carries a similar meaning to that of a baptism.

As for the 1 John 5:8 verse, I am inclined to believe that the water referred to is the living water as FearAndTrembling suggested. We read in John 19:34 that blood and water flowed from Jesus when the soldier speared him after his death. And we also read that Jesus gave up his spirit before he died. This could mean something that all three were there and given up at Jesus' death. Of course, I could be wrong and am more than happy to be corrected by anyone.

One thing I know is that baptism is not essential for salvation - the only thing that one needs is to accept and put their faith (trust) in Jesus and how he died to take away our sins if we came to him and how through his resurrection he can offer eternal life to those who trust in him.

While most Scriptures can be read in a variety of ways, the differences that we have are so tiny. I have seen over the last few days how effective we can be when all the churches put aside our petty differences and join together for Jesus Christ. In just a few days, thousands have given their lives to Jesus during Harvest 05 in Newcastle, Australia. I only wish that churches from different denominations would get together more often then we could rock Newcastle and really see the Holy Spirit work.

 

[Defiance]

IgnatiusOfAntioch,

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins. Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. "

Christians are washed in the blood of the lamb, i.e. we are 'washed' as white as snow through the blood shed by Jesus when he died on the cross. This isn't a reference to being washed with water, because that was the former, it is a reference to being washed in Jesus' blood through whom we find forgiveness for our sins.

 

[SassySDA]

First Acts 2:38 is not written as a command, second it is of the Spirit. Water does not remove sin as this passage would suggest, and we receive the Holy Spirit upon belief read Acts 5:30, it says Christ forgivess sin, his Spirit is in us when we believe,Ephesians 1:13-14." And you also were included in christ when you HEARD the word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having BELIEVED, you marked in him with a seal, THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT." 14 Who is a deposit QUARANTEEING OUR INHERITANCE ......" So if you read it with other passages it cant be water, because it would not make since. Use scripture to back up your statements. Christ also followed all the Jewish customs of his day, are we to do those as well. The Spirit water and blood is his water baptism to reveal him to the world as prophecy says, the blood is his sacrifice which covered the sins of the world, and the Spirit is what we receive upon belief which saves us. This passage is about Gods testomony of his Son not a Act of water baptism.

Why do you wish to argue about baptism? Do you believe it is ok to simply sprinkle one's head? I mean is that your point?

Water was scarce in the times of Jesus' baptism, people traveled far to be immersed as Jesus was. If it were ok to simply sprinkle one's head, I would think that that would have been the way they did it back then, seeing how scarce water actually was...but they didn't.

To me it's really VERY simple. I do as Jesus did. I follow His example. If He did something a certain way, I will do it the way that He did it. What's there to argue over?

18 years ago I was sprinkled. I never felt right about that. Just this year I was re-baptized biblically. Amen. This time I did it right. I honored my Savior's sacrifice by dying (immersed, underwater) and rising again to a new life in Him.

Arguing over this is absolutely silly, in my opinion. Simply follow the example that Jesus set for us all.

For me and my house, we will serve the Lord. We picked up our mats and we follow Him.

Whenever I am in doubt about ANYTHING, I turn to the gospels. I know that if Jesus did it, it's the right thing to do. If He didn't...it isn't.

 

[livingproofGM]

Why do you wish to argue about baptism? Do you believe it is ok to simply sprinkle one's head? I mean is that your point?

Water was scarce in the times of Jesus' baptism, people traveled far to be immersed as Jesus was. If it were ok to simply sprinkle one's head, I would think that that would have been the way they did it back then, seeing how scarce water actually was...but they didn't.

To me it's really VERY simple. I do as Jesus did. I follow His example. If He did something a certain way, I will do it the way that He did it. What's there to argue over?

18 years ago I was sprinkled. I never felt right about that. Just this year I was re-baptized biblically. Amen. This time I did it right. I honored my Savior's sacrifice by dying (immersed, underwater) and rising again to a new life in Him.

Arguing over this is absolutely silly, in my opinion. Simply follow the example that Jesus set for us all.

For me and my house, we will serve the Lord. We picked up our mats and we follow Him.

Whenever I am in doubt about ANYTHING, I turn to the gospels. I know that if Jesus did it, it's the right thing to do. If He didn't...it isn't.

I'm probably late in the argument, but I was baptized with water poured over my head...what's the difference if you are submersed or sprinkled? Aren't you born again of water and spirit in either case?

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Luke 23:38-43
Clearly this man was not baptized with (physical)water, but believed God and was baptized with (living) water.

That is incorrect. What makes you think he was not baptized? You are making an assumption which is completely unwarrented and not based on the scripture. Please show me where scripture says he was not baptized.

 

[SPALATIN]

Baptism is not a requirement, it is a Blessed Event.

 

[moses916]

Baptism is not a requirement, it is a Blessed Event.

Hmmm... if i'm not mistaken baptism was practiced for 1500 years before the reformation took place... and well i think it was still practiced after the reformers came to be... until almost everything in the protestant church became "symbolic"... Baptism is required for the remission of sins

 

[linssue55]

No were in scripture is this idea commanded, it was used, but only for a time, just as John the baptist said it would be, and Christ baptism would increase and his decrease. It is very misinterpreted by most all denominations and is a burdone, not because of its use but in how it is interpreted to be used and why and or how or when, none of which is ever mentioned in scripture, why because it is not a part of the Gospel message, Which is solely about Christ and his Spirit.

You are absolutely right. It stopped with the Church age (Now) and replaced with the indwelling of the Spirit at Salvation, and with the filling of the spirit through John 1:9 (when we get out of fellowship), water is not needed, Salvation did the work of water.

Here are the wonderful things given to us at Salvation..........

The 40 things we receive at Salvation.......

01. Immputed Righteousness..... Rom 4: 3-5
02. Justification.....Rom. 3: 24-30
03. Regeneration .....John 3: 1-12, Titus 3:5, Rom 8:16, 1 cor 2-14
04. Human Spirit.....Rom 8:16, 1 Cor 2:14
05. Imputed Everlasting Life.....John 5: 11-12
06. Baptism of the Holy Spirit.....Rom 8: 1-2, Rom 8: 38-39, 1 Cor 15:2, 1 Cor 12:13, John 5: 11-12
07. Propitiation.....Ex 25: 17-22, Heb 9:4, 1 John 2: 2
08. Reconcilliation.....Rom 5:10, 2 Cor 5:18-19
09. Redemtion.....1 peter 1: 18-19
10. Forgiveness.....Isaiah 43: 25, Isaiah 44:22, Eph 1: 7, Col 1: 14
11. Removal of Condemnation.....John 3:18, Rom 8: 1-3
12. Removal of Domination of the Old Sin Nature.....Rom 6:6-12
13. Removal of Satan's Power.....Col 1: 12-13, 1 John 5: 19, Eph 6:11-12, Eph 2: 1-2, Gal 1: 12-13
14. Freedom from the Penalty of the Mosaic Law.....Rom 3: 8, Rom 8:2, Gal 3: 10-13
15. Identification with Jesus Christ.....Rom 6: 3-12, Gal 2: 20,
16. Indwelling of God the Father.....John 14: 23, Eph 4:6, John 14: 23
17. Indwelling of Jesus Christ.....John 14: 20, Rom 8: 10, 2 Cor 5: 3, Col 1: 27
18. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.....1 Cor 6: 19-20, Math 3: 11, John 14: 7, Rom 5: 5, Rom 8:9, Gal 3:2
19. Sealing of your Salvation.....Eph 4: 30, Tim 2: 19, Eph 1: 13
20. Circumcision of the Soul.....1 Cor 7: 17-24, Jer 4: 4, Rom 2: 29, Deut 10: 16-17
21. Unseen Assets.....Eph 1: 2-6
22. Judgement of Sins.....1 Pet 2: 24, Rom 4: 251 John 1: 9
23. Royal Adoption.....Rom 8: 15, Rom 8: 23
24. Eternal Relationship to God.....Eph 2: 13, James 4: 8, Heb 10: 25
25. We are on the Rock Jesus Christ.....2 Cor 1: 21; 2, Cor 3: 11, Eph 2: 26. 26. We are a Gift to Christ.....John 17: 5, John 17: 11-12, John 17: 20, John 10: 29
27. Royal Priesthood.....Peter 2: 5, Peter 2: 9, Rev 1: 6
28. We are a Chosen Generation.....1 Peter 2: 9, Titus 2: 14
29. Access to God.....Eph 2: 18, Rom 5: 2, Heb 4: 14, Heb 10: 19-20
30. We are under God's Care.....Eph 2: 4, Eph 5: 2, 31.
31. We are His Inheritance.....Eph 1: 18
32. We Inherit Christ's Eternal Future.....1 Pet 1: 14, Eph 4: 14, Col 3: 24, Heb 9: 15
33. We have a Heavenly Partnership and Association.....Col 3: 4, 1 John 5: 11-12, Eph 2:6, 1 Cor 1: 9, 1 Cor 3: 9, 2 Cor 3: 3, 2 Cor 3: 6, 2 Cor 5: 20, @ cor 6: 4
34. We Become Heavenly Citizens.....Eph 2: 19, Phill 3: 20-21
35. We Become Members of the Royal Family of God....Eph 2: 19, Eph 3: 5, Gal 6: 10
36. We are the Light in the Lord.....Eph 5: 8, Thess 5: 4
37. We are United to the Trinity.....1 Cor 12: 13, John 15: 5, Eph 2: 19, Eph 2: 22, Eph 5: 25-27, 1 Peter 2: 5-9
38. We are Glorified.....Rom 8: 30
39. We are Complete in Him.....Col 2: 10
40. We Recieve a Guardian Angel.....Heb 1: 14

 

[S Walch]

Jesus told Nicodemus straight that unless he was Reborn of WATER and the Spirit, he could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

No he doesn't.

he doesn't say "reborn" - not in any english translation of that verse.

He says born, not reborn.

He was obviously refering to the water dispersed when you are physically born, what nicodemus lacked was been born of the spirit.

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. (NIV)


4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (KJV)


4"What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?"

5Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven. (NLT)


Were do you get the idea that he says "Reborn" he he distinctively says "born"?

 

[FearAndTrembeling]

Luke 23:38-43
Clearly this man was not baptized with (physical)water, but believed God and was baptized with (living) water.


That is incorrect. What makes you think he was not baptized? You are making an assumption which is completely unwarrented and not based on the scripture. Please show me where scripture says he was not baptized.

Im not basing it on one individual verse, I am basing it on the entire means of salvation (Every verse). You are ignoring much of the scripture and missing the mark of faith by believing that one MUST be baptized with physical water in order to become saved.

Johns baptism was a baptism of repentence, the reason being - God made it a law of rightesousness when He commanded John to baptise with water.

When Jesus came unto John, John forbade Him, but Jesus said "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil ALL righteousness.

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Now when Jesus had fulfilled all righteousness He thus began to preach the kingdom of God. Then Johns baptism of Jesus proved that it was a command from God at that time. When Jesus fulfilled that command(law) of God, the Spirit of God descended upon Him, because the work of Christs faith was the obedience to the Law of God, and the fulfilment of ALL righteousness.

There is one true baptism, and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit - the complete WORK of God. (John 11:25 )

Luke 7:19-27 19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 20 When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. 24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. 26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. 27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.


Matthew 20:22 - But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Matthew 20:23 - And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Ephesians 4:4-5 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Ephesians 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 10:17 - So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Ezekiel 37

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Orthodoxy,

Traditionally Quakers don't believe that The Church(or any church for that matter) and the Bible are finial authorities. Which is why his quote I highlighted in my last post confused me, on his stance. Rather they rely on the Light Within, to guide them to truth.

Peace be with you...Pam

I am sorry to interupt this thread, but I was hoping to get some clarification. Pam you mention that the church and the bible are not final authorities. Why wouldn't the bible be a final authority? It is God inspired, right?


God Bless
newbeliever

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Bump.