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JimfromOhio said:3. Baptism is a symbol, not only of the death, burial, and resurrection, but also of individual rebirth.
No i have not, but may look it up Prayer is not my strong suit. Did he write a book on discipline. Quaker should appeal to most denom, it is very simple, we just dont add anything unnessecary to our christian life that may hinder our Spirtual walk with Christ. It is not a easy way to practice christianity though it is simple. We want to much to have a part in how to do it instead of letting christ walk us through it. Though there are many who can and do that are not quakers. I think it is the right way because it makes you focus only on Him and others and not things you do.PassthePeace1 said:I did not mean to imply you were being rude, just not really using Quaker terminology.
Have your ever read any of Richard Foster's(he is a Evangelical Quaker author) books? I love his book on Prayer! His writings are very ecumenical and appeal to people from many denominations.
Peace be with you...Pam
HOW? Scriptures clearly says the Blood oh Christ washes our sins away, the Holy Spirit washes our sins away. Water is never mentioned as being able to do that.Holly3278 said:Baptism is not just a symbol. It also washes away our sins.
When Christ was speaking of water in that verse was He was referring to true and natural water. Just because He sometimes used water to symbolize Himself doesn't necessarily mean He was also doing it in that verse too. No early Church Father ever thought that verse to mean the way you want it to mean.KrazyEUro said:Who is the living water? and who is the Holy SPirit? Christ makes it clearly that to be "born of water and spirit" is to be "born again". how is one born again?
No, if you read throughout Scriptures, you will notice that Baptism immediately followed someone who just started to believe.KrazyEuro said:well if you read throughout scriptures, you'll see that upon believing and recieveing, you are saved.
Sorry, when i read Act 16 the jailer and all the household Immdeiately were Baptised.KrazyEuro said:If you read Acts 16 with the Jailor, you will see that the jailor was saved before, and then decided to get baptized in water. misinterpretation of the scriptures in John 3.
Water is mentioned to do that however you make the water to mean something else.Schroeder said:HOW? Scriptures clearly says the Blood oh Christ washes our sins away, the Holy Spirit washes our sins away. Water is never mentioned as being able to do that.
Give me scripture to prove your point. It says absolutly no where that water does anything at all. Scripture never says water baptized past John the baptist. There are two baptism one is to continue the other to decrease. John the Baptist ministry was through his words and water baptism Christ ministry is through his words sacrifice and Spirit Baptism, John says so. That scriptual. The Church fathers is not real. There is only one Father and that is JESUS CHRIST. There are "church" leaders but NOT Church fathers or leaders. I go by scripture and the leading of the HOly Spirit not church leaders. I can listen to them and learn from them but they can only say what the scriptures say adding to them is wrong. To many are not taught by the Spirit but by denominations and colleges. Water does mean anything that is my point. It was used in the early Church and was to decrease as john said so and Christs ministry with the Spirit increase.Kepha said:Water is mentioned to do that however you make the water to mean something else.
Schroeder said:Give me scripture to prove your point. It says absolutly no where that water does anything at all. Scripture never says water baptized past John the baptist. There are two baptism one is to continue the other to decrease. John the Baptist ministry was through his words and water baptism Christ ministry is through his words sacrifice and Spirit Baptism, John says so. That scriptual. The Church fathers is not real. There is only one Father and that is JESUS CHRIST. There are "church" leaders but NOT Church fathers or leaders. I go by scripture and the leading of the HOly Spirit not church leaders. I can listen to them and learn from them but they can only say what the scriptures say adding to them is wrong. To many are not taught by the Spirit but by denominations and colleges. Water does mean anything that is my point. It was used in the early Church and was to decrease as john said so and Christs ministry with the Spirit increase.
Schroeder said:Give me scripture to prove your point. It says absolutly no where that water does anything at all. Scripture never says water baptized past John the baptist. There are two baptism one is to continue the other to decrease. John the Baptist ministry was through his words and water baptism Christ ministry is through his words sacrifice and Spirit Baptism, John says so. That scriptual. The Church fathers is not real. There is only one Father and that is JESUS CHRIST. There are "church" leaders but NOT Church fathers or leaders. I go by scripture and the leading of the HOly Spirit not church leaders. I can listen to them and learn from them but they can only say what the scriptures say adding to them is wrong. To many are not taught by the Spirit but by denominations and colleges. Water does mean anything that is my point. It was used in the early Church and was to decrease as john said so and Christs ministry with the Spirit increase.
The verses were given. You will only twist it to mean the water symbolizes Christ only, but i shall give it anyways.Schroeder said:Give me scripture to prove your point. It says absolutly no where that water does anything at all.
What are you talking about? What do you think they mean when they say "And he went into the water and was Baptised"?Scripture never says water baptized past John the baptist.
Scripture please.There are two baptism one is to continue the other to decrease.
Incorrect. John the Baptist was symbolizing of what the importance of water will become through Christ. His was regular water. The water of Baptism after the Crusifixion is sacred water.John the Baptist ministry was through his words and water baptism Christ ministry is through his words sacrifice and Spirit Baptism, John says so.
Of course they existed. If your going to say this then you can likewise say theat the ones who passed along the Scripture for the first few hundred years were also not real.The Church fathers is not real.
You just contradicted yourself there.There is only one Father and that is JESUS CHRIST. There are "church" leaders but NOT Church fathers or leaders.
You go by your own understanding of Scripture. Scripture doesn't speak to you. You interpret.I go by scripture and the leading of the HOly Spirit not church leaders.
To deny the Church perspective is to deny a historical account of how the early Church behaved. Show me where any christians thought as you did about Baptism.I can listen to them and learn from them but they can only say what the scriptures say adding to them is wrong.
That is what you all say.To many are not taught by the Spirit but by denominations and colleges.
You have no authority to tell me exactly what Scripture is telling me. You interpretate your way and i will follow the Church Guided by the Holy Spirit to interpretate my way.Water does mean anything that is my point. It was used in the early Church and was to decrease as john said so and Christs ministry with the Spirit increase.
34The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"[
f] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
Orthodoxyusa said:Exaclty why scripture is not the final authority. The Chruch is.
Forgive me...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Please. That would mean the pool or the river would be sinful after you have been baptized. Would it attach to people swimming downstream.Holly3278 said:Baptism is not just a symbol. It also washes away our sins.
Cliff2 said:This is why we have so many problems in Christianity?
The Bible is not accepted as the final authority.
Over the years the "Church" has made too many mistakes.
What is wrong with following Scripture?
No, it means the Salvic Graces from the Cross are conferred though the sacred water of Baptism. So again, your sin isn't literally washed away with the water but by Christ's Graces through the water.statrei said:Please. That would mean the pool or the river would be sinful after you have been baptized. Would it attach to people swimming downstream.
statrei said:Please. That would mean the pool or the river would be sinful after you have been baptized. Would it attach to people swimming downstream.
The Catholic Church has never errored in matter of Doctrine. There have been certain men of he Church that have behaved in a unchristian like manner but it has nothing to do with Dogmas handed down through the 2000 years.Cliff2 said:This is why we have so many problems in Christianity?
The Bible is not accepted as the final authority.
Over the years the "Church" has made too many mistakes.
Orthodoxyusa said:What mistakes has the Orthodox Church made?
Just look at the variety of answers on this one subject.
There is only one Truth.
There is nothing wrong with following scripture as long as you have the word of the Church to go with it....
The scripture is a limited set of understanding written down as reminders and pointers... not as the exclusive and exhaustive authority on Christian life... it doesn't answer all the questions as the living Church does. These misunderstandings become clear as fresh water inside the mind of the Church.
Forgive me.....
Kepha said:The Catholic Church has never errored in matter of Doctrine. There have been certain men of he Church that have behaved in a unchristian like manner but it has nothing to do with Dogmas handed down through the 2000 years.
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