I have heard from all over that it is commanded that we be baptized and that it is absolutely necessary, though not salvation-dependant, on revcieving water baptism. I now believe, after further study, that the water baptism ritual is not completely necessary, but that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (which happens at the moment of belief and needs not happen again and repeat itself) is necessary. What is the board's opinion on this matter?Is the ritual of Water Baptism absolutely necessary?
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Water Baptism - Is It Really Necessary?
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Melethiel said:Didn't we just have a thread on this?
Several. Water baptism is the new Sabbath or One True Church (take your pick...)
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winsome
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Melethiel said:Didn't we just have a thread on this?
Do you mean this one?
Baptism: Essential for Salvation?
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Dragons87
The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper
I'm not going to go so much as to say it's aboslutely necessary for salvation, but if you can get it done, have it done. There's really no argument for somebody to not get it done.
Jesus' commandmants were many, and this is one of the easiest ones to keep. So keep it!
Jesus' commandmants were many, and this is one of the easiest ones to keep. So keep it!
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SoldierOfTheKing
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Not absolutely necessary, but to refuse baptism is nothing less than to refuse salvation. If you have enough faith in Jesus enough to get baptized, what evidence is there that you're saved?
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not necessary...but to refuse is nothing less than to refuse salvation.
oi! ::cognitive dissonance::
oi! ::cognitive dissonance::
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SoldierOfTheKing
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I was making allowance for those to whom baptism might not be availible, for example, the Thief on the Cross. He was not baptized, but not because he refused baptism. That is why I said not absolutely necessary.
I hope this makes for sense.
I hope this makes for sense.
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winsome
English, not British
261. Is Baptism necessary for salvation?
Baptism is necessary for salvation for all those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.
From the Compenium - Catechism of the Catholic Church (the new short Q & A version)
Baptism is necessary for salvation for all those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.
From the Compenium - Catechism of the Catholic Church (the new short Q & A version)
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S Walch
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winsome said:
Then the Catechism is wrong.
Well, wouldn't be the first time, so it's not much of a surprise.
Baptism is not a nessesity, but when you become a believer, you should get baptised.
If you're not a believer, or an infant who hasn't even learnt to speak yet in order to vocalise his own beliefs, then you shouldn't get baptised.
Simple as.
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S Walch
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Timyone said:
Aye, as one should.
Mark 1:7-8
7 He announced: "Someone is coming soon who is far greater than I am (JTB)--so much greater that I am not even worthy to be his slave. 8 I (JTB) baptize you with water, but he (Yahushua) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit!"
This is repeated also in Matthew 3:11 and in Luke 3:16
If Water was nessecary for Salvation, then JTB would have said that Yahushua would've baptised with water as well as the Holy Spirit.
But he doesn't, he just says that Yahushua will baptise with the Holy Spirit.
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I have to say baptism is a good way of showing that you are a christian and that you have accepted god as your lord and saviour.
If you are not sure about it then take it up with your pastor or do a alpha course.
If you are not sure about it then take it up with your pastor or do a alpha course.
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Ethan_Fetch
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In a few places in the New Testament the Apostolic call is to "repent and be baptized", the reference is to water baptism.
Neither is presented as an option. If baptism is optional, so is repentance.
Jesus tells the disiples to go to all nations and to baptize people.
He is talking about water baptism.
So yes, it's really necessary.
The OP is not starting another post on whether one has to be baptized in order to be saved.
He is asking whether baptism is even necessary for those who have repented and come to faith in Jesus for salvation.
Neither is presented as an option. If baptism is optional, so is repentance.
Jesus tells the disiples to go to all nations and to baptize people.
He is talking about water baptism.
So yes, it's really necessary.
The OP is not starting another post on whether one has to be baptized in order to be saved.
He is asking whether baptism is even necessary for those who have repented and come to faith in Jesus for salvation.
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As far as I'm concerned the whole question of whether or not we MUST get baptised is kinda rebellious. If Jesus asks us to do something I don't think our response should be "Or what?"
I know that's kinda simplistic and it might seem like I'm putting others down. I guess I'm just reflecting on my own journey and the questions I had. Ultimately I realised that if I truly love Him and seek to serve Him, it doesn't matter if I have to do it or not. I should happily follow Him wherever He leads me. If I keep stopping Him and saying "Hang on a sec... Is this a command or not? If I don't do it, will there be consequences?" etc.. I'm hardly treating Him as my Lord and my response is hardly one of love.
That was a personal realisation and ultimately I just surrended to Jesus. In the end the issue of what I get out of it became almost irrelevant. I don't know if it was necessary for my salvation. When all was said and done I got baptised to give glory to Him and not for my own gain.
As far as others are concerned I wouldn't presume to make judgements regarding someone's salvation based on their stand. Obviously I believe that someone who chooses not to go through baptism hasn't quite understood that aspect of following Jesus yet, but there's heaps I haven't got right yet too. Had I died between accepting Christ and accepting my need for Baptism I believe I'd still have been saved, but I'm also certain that had I remained stubborn in my walk it would have had a negative impact on my relationship with Christ and I would have missed out on the fuller blessings I have in Him now.
I know that's kinda simplistic and it might seem like I'm putting others down. I guess I'm just reflecting on my own journey and the questions I had. Ultimately I realised that if I truly love Him and seek to serve Him, it doesn't matter if I have to do it or not. I should happily follow Him wherever He leads me. If I keep stopping Him and saying "Hang on a sec... Is this a command or not? If I don't do it, will there be consequences?" etc.. I'm hardly treating Him as my Lord and my response is hardly one of love.
That was a personal realisation and ultimately I just surrended to Jesus. In the end the issue of what I get out of it became almost irrelevant. I don't know if it was necessary for my salvation. When all was said and done I got baptised to give glory to Him and not for my own gain.
As far as others are concerned I wouldn't presume to make judgements regarding someone's salvation based on their stand. Obviously I believe that someone who chooses not to go through baptism hasn't quite understood that aspect of following Jesus yet, but there's heaps I haven't got right yet too. Had I died between accepting Christ and accepting my need for Baptism I believe I'd still have been saved, but I'm also certain that had I remained stubborn in my walk it would have had a negative impact on my relationship with Christ and I would have missed out on the fuller blessings I have in Him now.
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Ethan_Fetch
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That's a great point, Splayd.
If we believe and love and follow Jesus, why wouldn't we want to follow Him into Baptism?
If we believe and love and follow Jesus, why wouldn't we want to follow Him into Baptism?
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S Walch
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Ethan_Fetch said:
Obviously you're refering to Acts 2:38, where peter calls for people to "repeant and be baptised".
Well, how about a couple of months later, in acts 11, when peter is explaining something, he says this:
Acts 11
15 "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the upright one had said: 'John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
That's the key to understanding what was happening in Acts 2.
Peter hadn't remembered what Yahushua said about being baptised with the Holy Spirit, and erronesly said "and be baptised", forgetting that Yahushua doesn't baptise with water to save people, but batizes with the Holy Spirit.
Peter was trying to put old wine into new wine skins.
Or is it New wine into Old wine skins?
I can never remember
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Ah, cherry picking and interpreting. How nice.
Yes, water baptism is really necessary. To undergo this Sacrament is to be baptized with water and the Spirit.
Yes, water baptism is really necessary. To undergo this Sacrament is to be baptized with water and the Spirit.
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S Walch
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Melethiel said:
Ah, being silly and believe that water baptism is nessecary because that's what Lutheren churches teach. How nice.
Please, if that's an apparent rebuttal for what I said then I'm sorry, it's not convincing in the least.
What is therefore your churches Interpretation of Mark 1:7-8, Matthew 3, Luke 3, Acts 2 and Acts 11?
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Some thoughts....
1. Yup, there must be at least a dozen threads on this topic - all saying the same things. Those might be checked out.
2. To the question, yes and no. (I'm famous for my definitive answers to things).
3. YES - it is necessary in the sense that Christ commanded it and it is associated with great blessings. NO - it is not essential in the sense that one with faith in Christ has his/her savior would nonetheless be damned without recieving this rite. It is possible to have faith in Christ and thus be heaven-bound without having received Baptism.
MY $0.01...
Pax.
- Josiah
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1. Yup, there must be at least a dozen threads on this topic - all saying the same things. Those might be checked out.
2. To the question, yes and no. (I'm famous for my definitive answers to things).
3. YES - it is necessary in the sense that Christ commanded it and it is associated with great blessings. NO - it is not essential in the sense that one with faith in Christ has his/her savior would nonetheless be damned without recieving this rite. It is possible to have faith in Christ and thus be heaven-bound without having received Baptism.
MY $0.01...
Pax.
- Josiah
.
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